Giving son a handgun for home defense in Va

[OleEd]

I live in mo and as above giving a handgun for he and wife who live off post by Ft Belvoir. Giving a signed letter. Anything more to do in va? Does not live in DC,thank God....

 

[Cotillion]

I'm not sure on this so don't quote or call me an idiot but I think living in different states you'll still have to use a FFL to ship it to him. I don't think guns can be gifted, only willed.

 

[GTH]

Your right about DC

The only people in DC or MD that are allowed to protect themselves are the cops and crooks. Everybody else gets caught in the cross fire!

 

[NavyLCDR]

I live in mo and as above giving a handgun for he and wife who live off post by Ft Belvoir. Giving a signed letter. Anything more to do in va? Does not live in DC,thank God....

In order to comply with Federal law, since you are a resident of MO, and your son resides in VA, the handgun will have to be transferred to your son by an FFL in Virginia. 18 USC 922 (a)(3), (a)(5) and (b)(3) are the applicable Federal laws, if you are interested.

How you get the gun to the Virginia FFL is between you and the Virginia FFL. The only legal restriction is that you cannot use US Post Office to mail a handgun, because you do not hold an FFL yourself.

Being military, even if your son has a MO driver's license, he is still considered a resident of VA while having orders there and living there at night. A driver's license or home of record alone does not establish residency for the purposes of firearms transactions; only military orders to a state and/or physical prensence in a state with the intention of making a home there do.

 

[Nightmare45]

Or you could just hand him the gun in person and to hell with shipping, living trust.

 

[Keykutter]

Being military, even if your son has a MO driver's license, he is still considered a resident of VA while having orders there and living there at night. A driver's license or home of record alone does not establish residency for the purposes of firearms transactions; only military orders to a state and/or physical prensence in a state with the intention of making a home there do.

I have to disagree with the residency part. The entire 20 years I spent in the Navy, I maintained my Florida Driver License. I remained a Florida resident wherever I was. I voted in the Florida elections while filling out absentee ballots and I paid taxes in Florida, actually didn't pay state income because there was none, but always legally used my Florida residency for everything including hunting and fishing license. I also was able to use my permanent orders to apply for anything that residency required in the state I was stationed in. Just about like having two residencies in reality except that I could only vote once and only have one drivers license.

So, I guess my point is that your last paragraph is a bit flawed, he is not considered a resident of the state he is stationed in unless he chooses to be. He could change his residency and become that state's resident and get his D/L changed and his voting status changed but he doesn't have to. If his drivers license and his military records show his residency is still MO, it is.

KK

 

[NavyLCDR]

I have to disagree with the residency part. The entire 20 years I spent in the Navy, I maintained my Florida Driver License. I remained a Florida resident wherever I was. I voted in the Florida elections while filling out absentee ballots and I paid taxes in Florida, actually didn't pay state income because there was none, but always legally used my Florida residency for everything including hunting and fishing license. I also was able to use my permanent orders to apply for anything that residency required in the state I was stationed in. Just about like having two residencies in reality except that I could only vote once and only have one drivers license.

So, I guess my point is that your last paragraph is a bit flawed, he is not considered a resident of the state he is stationed in unless he chooses to be. He could change his residency and become that state's resident and get his D/L changed and his voting status changed but he doesn't have to. If his drivers license and his military records show his residency is still MO, it is.

KK

First, notice the limiting factor in the paragraph I wrote that you question:
A driver's license or home of record alone does not establish residency for the purposes of firearms transactions

That is all we are talking about is firearms transactions. Nothing else. Now let's look at how Federal law actually defines residency for the purposes of firearms transactions and nothing else, only firearms transactions.

United States Code: Title 18,921. Definitions | LII / Legal Information Institute

18 USC 921(b):

§ 921. Definitions
(b) For the purposes of this chapter, a member of the Armed Forces on active duty is a resident of the State in which his permanent duty station is located.

Link Removed

27 CFR 478.11:

State of residence. The State in which an individual resides. An individual resides in a State if he or she is present in a State with the intention of making a home in that State. If an individual is on active duty as a member of the Armed Forces, the individual's State of residence is the State in which his or her permanent duty station is located.

So, do you see anywhere in the definitions of state of residence for the purposes of firearms transactions any mention of where taxes are paid, where vehicles are registered, where a home of record is or where a driver's license is from? I don't. For the purposes of firearms transactions, there are two requirements: physical presence in a state with an intention of making a home there (IE: what state do you sleep in every night), and for military members-permanent duty station orders to a state. I have had a Wyoming driver's license and everything associated with Wyoming residency for almost 30 years. It has been illegal for me to purchase a firearm as a Wyoming resident since 1988 when I left Wyoming to join the Navy, and I have never returned to Wyoming since then with the intention of making a home there or have been ordered there.

On the other side of things, the minute a military member steps foot in a state with orders to that state, they become a resident of that state. So a new guy checks into my command with orders, I can sell him a gun the day he checks, regardless of where his driver's license is from, and he can buy a gun from an FFL in that state with nothing but his orders and military ID card.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Or you could just hand him the gun in person and to hell with shipping, living trust.

You are exactly correct, the MO resident father can just hand the gun in person TO A VIRGINIA FFL for transfer to the Virginia resident son and be perfectly legal and not pay shipping.

 

[Keykutter]

Touche'**************

KK

 

[Keykutter]

Now thats just disgusting

KK

 

[tuts40]

I gave my daughter who lives in Newport News, VA, a Glock while she was visiting home here in NE. We just did a proper transfer here in NE as she is still a resident, her hubby is an army type. (She's a former army MP herself) She also recieved from me a Supertuck holster and a box of premium SD ammo. ...They have cleaning and care supplies already as he is armed at home as well. She's the "son" I never had!

 

[NavyLCDR]

Just because I could walk into a gunstore in Wyoming with my Wyoming driver's license and buy a handgun does not make it legal to do so. Residency for firearms transactions is very simple: presence in a state WITH THE INTENTION OF MAKING HOME THERE. There are even examples in Federal regulations:

Example 1. A maintains a home in State X. A travels to State Y on a hunting, fishing, business, or other type of trip. A does not become a resident of State Y by reason of such trip.

Example 2. A is a U.S. citizen and maintains a home in State X and a home in State Y. A resides in State X except for weekends or the summer months of the year and in State Y for the weekends or the summer months of the year. During the time that A actually resides in State X, A is a resident of State X, and during the time that A actually resides in State Y, A is a resident of State Y.

A person visiting their parents on leave does not make one a resident of that state (Example 1), regardless of if they have a driver's license from that state or not. The person would have to maintain a home in that state which they had reserved for their own use as a residence (Example 2).

 

[Glock Fan]

Priceless!

 

[maybejim]

I live in mo and as above giving a handgun for he and wife who live off post by Ft Belvoir. Giving a signed letter. Anything more to do in va? Does not live in DC,thank God....

You need check VA. law. In Kalifornia it is legal to transfer a gun from a father to a child or viceversa and all you have to do is fill out a form to register it with the state (and pay $19 I think it was). That's true even if one is from a different state. You do not have to go through a FFL. So get on line for family transfer in Virginia.

 

[NavyLCDR]

You need check VA. law. In Kalifornia it is legal to transfer a gun from a father to a child or viceversa and all you have to do is fill out a form to register it with the state (and pay $19 I think it was). That's true even if one is from a different state. You do not have to go through a FFL. So get on line for family transfer in Virginia.

Virginia law allows two people who are not prohibited from possessing firearms to transfer firearms between themselves with no FFL or paperwork required. It doesn't matter if they are conjoined twins or complete strangers.

Now, if Father is a resident of state A (and it does not matter what state A is) and Son is a resident of state B (and it does not matter what state B is), when Father transfers any firearm to Son, Father commits a Federal felony, violating Title 18, Part 1, Chapter 44, Section 922, Paragraph (a)(5) of The Code of the United States. When Son receives or takes that gun back to his home state, he commits a Federal felony, violating Title 18, Part 1, Chapter 44, Section 922, Paragraph (a)(3) of The Code of the United States. PERIOD. END OF STORY. It's as simple as that.

The California law which allows transfer of firearms between immediate family members with no FFL required ONLY APPLIES to legal residents of California who are both present in California at the time of the transfer. PERIOD. The Virginia law which allows transfer of firearms between any two strangers (not prohibited in some other way), ONLY APPLIES to legal residents of Virginia who are both present in Virginia at the time of the transfer.

The minute that one party involved becomes a legal resident of a different state, the Federal restriction requiring the transfer to occur through an FFL applies, regardless of whether or not one or both states' laws allow unregulated transfers or not.

I'll even quote the Federal statutes for you:

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/922.html

§ 922. Unlawful acts
(a) It shall be unlawful—

(3) for any person, other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to transport into or receive in the State where he resides (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, the State where it maintains a place of business) any firearm purchased or otherwise obtained by such person outside that State, except that this paragraph (A) shall not preclude any person who lawfully acquires a firearm by bequest or intestate succession in a State other than his State of residence from transporting the firearm into or receiving it in that State, if it is lawful for such person to purchase or possess such firearm in that State, (B) shall not apply to the transportation or receipt of a firearm obtained in conformity with subsection (b)(3) of this section, and (C) shall not apply to the transportation of any firearm acquired in any State prior to the effective date of this chapter;

(5) for any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) to transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the transferor resides;

 

[maybejim]

Perhaps you are correct but, I received a handgun as a gift from my son (who lives in Idaho) and I registered it in Kalifornia by filling out the Kalifornia form and sending them the money. I did not move the gun from Idaho (I own a house there) until Kalifornia cleared it.

Virginia law allows two people who are not prohibited from possessing firearms to transfer firearms between themselves with no FFL or paperwork required. It doesn't matter if they are conjoined twins or complete strangers.

Now, if Father is a resident of state A (and it does not matter what state A is) and Son is a resident of state B (and it does not matter what state B is), when Father transfers any firearm to Son, Father commits a Federal felony, violating Title 18, Part 1, Chapter 44, Section 922, Paragraph (a)(5) of The Code of the United States. When Son receives or takes that gun back to his home state, he commits a Federal felony, violating Title 18, Part 1, Chapter 44, Section 922, Paragraph (a)(3) of The Code of the United States. PERIOD. END OF STORY. It's as simple as that.

The California law which allows transfer of firearms between immediate family members with no FFL required ONLY APPLIES to legal residents of California who are both present in California at the time of the transfer. PERIOD. The Virginia law which allows transfer of firearms between any two strangers (not prohibited in some other way), ONLY APPLIES to legal residents of Virginia who are both present in Virginia at the time of the transfer.

The minute that one party involved becomes a legal resident of a different state, the Federal restriction requiring the transfer to occur through an FFL applies, regardless of whether or not one or both states' laws allow unregulated transfers or not.

I'll even quote the Federal statutes for you:

United States Code: Title 18,922. Unlawful acts | LII / Legal Information Institute

 

[NavyLCDR]

Perhaps you are correct but, I received a handgun as a gift from my son (who lives in Idaho) and I registered it in Kalifornia by filling out the Kalifornia form and sending them the money. I did not move the gun from Idaho (I own a house there) until Kalifornia cleared it.

I've driven past the local sheriff/police going anywhere between 5 to 10 mph over the speed limit and they never stopped me. Does that change the legality of breaking the speed limit?

 

[Keykutter]

Does the term 'sea lawyer' ring a bell?

HOLY CRAP!

KK

 

[NavyLCDR]

Does the term 'sea lawyer' ring a bell?

HOLY CRAP!

KK

A sea lawyer typically uses the law to attempt to obtain an innocent ruling for a shipmate. In this case, I am simply stating what is clearly and plainly stated in Federal law.

 

[OleEd]

WOW!!!!! Thanks for the Replies. Oh how we've let Freedom slip away from us.

Again thanks all for your comments and advise. Will call the police dept there getting a name and specific directions to follow on this transfer before he leaves to go back to VA. Here too. Wow.

I guess living in a small town in the hills of MO, after retiring from the Army in 1985, has led me to believe these restrictions and liberal heretics lived and these laes applied only locally to DC, New York, and other east coast big cities and California. Here, even when stopped at a STOP sign, people will wave to the other to go on by out of couresty to one and other. And, you actually can talk to your neighbors without fear. We're just starting to lock our doors - 'bout 3-5 yrs ago my wife started doing this.

Guess I should change my computer (2004 vintage) ID from OleEd to Ole Hick Ed...