NDS
New member
Thanks!:smile:
Gay Marriage
- Thread starter kn1080
- Start date
Thanks!:smile:
theicemanmpls
Banned
Sometimes, you will not make friends in stating what you beleive in.
Never be sorry for your beliefs.
Itstjs, would you be in favor of domestic unions?
Conservative Wife & Mom
New member
Standing up for godly principles doesn't always make us popular with society, Itstjs. It takes an individual who is strongly rooted in their spiritual beliefs to speak out. I'm currently reading The Holiness of God by R.C. Sproul. In the book, Sproul writes: "When a human being tries to consecrate what God has never consecrated, it is not a genuine act of consecration. It is an act of desecration." Seems to be statement that fits perfectly in this thread, don't you think? God consecrated Holy Matrimony between a man and a woman. He finds homosexuality an abomination. So, it's NOT judgmental to claim that any human being that would try to consecrate (make legal through marriage or civil union) anything that has been declared an abomination by our Heavenly Father (homosexuality) has committed an act of desecration. Case closed!
father-of-three
Member
Marriage has been a societal stabilizer through the years, or should I say millennia. A comment was made about civil unions, which seems like a reasonable alternative. Like the hopeful PA Lt Gov said, equal protections is important, at least in this world! Changing the definition of marriage is a bad idea sociologically and spiritually. I know it offends some, but changing the definition of marriage just opens up the floodgates for just about anything to be married to anyone. It may sound silly, but if it happens, you can say you heard it here first!
One is not homophobic because they are not in agreement with all things gay. That one is like being considered a racist because one does not agree with everything that an African American President does.
And a choice? We all have choices and we all make choices. With very few exceptions, I find the genetic reason to be a cop-out. I am a metalhead, but considering myself genetically predisposed to heavy metal music is just plain silly!
Socialism is the gateway drug!
One is not homophobic because they are not in agreement with all things gay. That one is like being considered a racist because one does not agree with everything that an African American President does.
And a choice? We all have choices and we all make choices. With very few exceptions, I find the genetic reason to be a cop-out. I am a metalhead, but considering myself genetically predisposed to heavy metal music is just plain silly!
Socialism is the gateway drug!
Ringo
A WATCHMAN
You're absolutely right Mom, God created marriage and sanctioned it between one man and one women. Homosexuality is, unlike other sin, an abomination. God hates all sin, but an abomination goes beyond hate of sin, it's disgusting and sickening to God. These people who foolishly argue and make all kinds of phony excuses are of the "world", they enjoy sin and have no desire to repent, that's why God created Hell. So like you said, "case closed".
Boomboy007
New member
Wow! What happened to my open minded peeps?
I find myself constantly encouraging my anti-gun friends to "look at the numbers" when they express their anti-gun sympathies, and the bevy of untrue statistics that they have been brainwashed into believing by Brady & Company. At first blush, making guns illegal would naturally lead to reduced gun crimes, right? It's intuitive. However, the issue of gun control is significantly more complex, as we here know, and the real truth is in the numbers. As "counter intuitive" as the Brady people would have us believe, we know that gun control actually increases violent crime, both gun and non-gun related. I don't understand how folks who are so "with it" when it comes to second amendment defense could be so close minded when it comes to anything else.
Okay, so if it can be shown that the sexual orientation of parents does not affect children as far as their sexual, self esteem, intelligence, or any of the myriad other factors that you might fear, would you be willing to admit that, while you disagree with the idea, you would not seek to prevent same sex adoption?
Study: Same-Sex Parents Raise Well-Adjusted Kids
What happens to kids raised by gay parents?
Gays Raising Children
So, I assume that, since you are basing your judgement of a significant number of human beings on a single document, then your source material must be pretty close to infallible. Therefore, we should ALL accept scripture as an infallible source, right? Proverbs 30:5 (King James Version)Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him
John 16:23 (King James Version) And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you. (I keep asking, but no answer so far)
Mark 16:17-18 (King James Version)And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. (Hey, HK, can I buy you a drink?)
Matthew 4:8 (King James Version)Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; (So, I guess the world really IS flat, right?)
1 Samuel 16:14-23 (King James Version)But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him. And Saul's servants said unto him, Behold now, an evil spirit from God troubleth thee. (So God sends EVIL spirits into people? Does that mean God made them gay?)
Deuteronomy 7:15 (King James Version) And the LORD will take away from thee all sickness, and will put none of the evil diseases of Egypt, which thou knowest, upon thee; but will lay them upon all them that hate thee. (Never met a sick Jew?)
Ezekiel 20:25 (King James Version)Wherefore I gave them also statutes that were not good, and judgments whereby they should not live; (So even God admits that he makes mistakes, correct?)
Exodus 22:20 (King James Version)He that sacrificeth unto any god, save unto the LORD only, he shall be utterly destroyed. (I'm a Buddhist. Will you kill me if/when we meet? It would make me think twice before attending a USACarry picnic!)
So, taking you at your word, if it was shown that there WAS some biological process, and not simply a choice, does that mean you would retract your judgement? I mean, if it is a biological imperative, then it can not be helped, correct?
New Evidence for Biological Influence on Gender
The Science of Gaydar - New Research on Everything From Voice Pitch to Hair Whorl -- New York Magazine
The Science of Gaydar - New Research on Everything From Voice Pitch to Hair Whorl -- New York Magazine
Well, though I like you guys, and I agree with you about lots of things, I am very proud to strongly disagree with you here. I have spent too much time with gay friends and associates to buy the "It's their choice!" line. Try having a true friend cry on your shoulder because he is a strong Christian, loves the Lord, and has prayed everyday that Jesus remove his gay thoughts and desires (I should have referred him to John 16:23, I guess). After high school we went our separate ways, but stayed in touch. He is now an independent business owner, a pastor (in one of those evil, gay lovin' churches), and the proud father of a boy and a girl with his partner of 22 years. In fact, his son is getting married this year.... to a girl.
I find myself constantly encouraging my anti-gun friends to "look at the numbers" when they express their anti-gun sympathies, and the bevy of untrue statistics that they have been brainwashed into believing by Brady & Company. At first blush, making guns illegal would naturally lead to reduced gun crimes, right? It's intuitive. However, the issue of gun control is significantly more complex, as we here know, and the real truth is in the numbers. As "counter intuitive" as the Brady people would have us believe, we know that gun control actually increases violent crime, both gun and non-gun related. I don't understand how folks who are so "with it" when it comes to second amendment defense could be so close minded when it comes to anything else.
Okay, so if it can be shown that the sexual orientation of parents does not affect children as far as their sexual, self esteem, intelligence, or any of the myriad other factors that you might fear, would you be willing to admit that, while you disagree with the idea, you would not seek to prevent same sex adoption?
Study: Same-Sex Parents Raise Well-Adjusted Kids
What happens to kids raised by gay parents?
Gays Raising Children
So, I assume that, since you are basing your judgement of a significant number of human beings on a single document, then your source material must be pretty close to infallible. Therefore, we should ALL accept scripture as an infallible source, right? Proverbs 30:5 (King James Version)Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him
John 16:23 (King James Version) And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you. (I keep asking, but no answer so far)
Mark 16:17-18 (King James Version)And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. (Hey, HK, can I buy you a drink?)
Matthew 4:8 (King James Version)Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; (So, I guess the world really IS flat, right?)
1 Samuel 16:14-23 (King James Version)But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him. And Saul's servants said unto him, Behold now, an evil spirit from God troubleth thee. (So God sends EVIL spirits into people? Does that mean God made them gay?)
Deuteronomy 7:15 (King James Version) And the LORD will take away from thee all sickness, and will put none of the evil diseases of Egypt, which thou knowest, upon thee; but will lay them upon all them that hate thee. (Never met a sick Jew?)
Ezekiel 20:25 (King James Version)Wherefore I gave them also statutes that were not good, and judgments whereby they should not live; (So even God admits that he makes mistakes, correct?)
Exodus 22:20 (King James Version)He that sacrificeth unto any god, save unto the LORD only, he shall be utterly destroyed. (I'm a Buddhist. Will you kill me if/when we meet? It would make me think twice before attending a USACarry picnic!)
So, taking you at your word, if it was shown that there WAS some biological process, and not simply a choice, does that mean you would retract your judgement? I mean, if it is a biological imperative, then it can not be helped, correct?
New Evidence for Biological Influence on Gender
The Science of Gaydar - New Research on Everything From Voice Pitch to Hair Whorl -- New York Magazine
The Science of Gaydar - New Research on Everything From Voice Pitch to Hair Whorl -- New York Magazine
Well, though I like you guys, and I agree with you about lots of things, I am very proud to strongly disagree with you here. I have spent too much time with gay friends and associates to buy the "It's their choice!" line. Try having a true friend cry on your shoulder because he is a strong Christian, loves the Lord, and has prayed everyday that Jesus remove his gay thoughts and desires (I should have referred him to John 16:23, I guess). After high school we went our separate ways, but stayed in touch. He is now an independent business owner, a pastor (in one of those evil, gay lovin' churches), and the proud father of a boy and a girl with his partner of 22 years. In fact, his son is getting married this year.... to a girl.
Boomboy007
New member
Did someone say....... machete!?!
Warning: Language is NOT SAFE FOR WORK!
YouTube - Machete - Official Trailer
As I said in a previous post, we can give guidance and counseling but it becomes the individuals choice in the end. No human can say with certainty that anyone is condemned for morality, only God can do that. Judging them and turning our backs on them isn't what is taught in the Bible. People make decisions contrary to the Bible's teaching all the time. I guess it can be summed up in the following:
The best verse is from Christ Himself - "Pick the pole from your own eye before picking at the splinter in your neighbor's" and as he said to the crowd wanting to stone the adulteress, "Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone!"
HK4U
New member
Guess we will have to agree to disagree on this one.
Ringo
A WATCHMAN
Someone in the "world" & of the"world" (the flesh) that is openly practicing sin and living a lifestyle of sin, certainly cannot judge another for openly practicing a lifestyle of sin. You left out the word before "pick" in Matthew 7:5, the word is "hypocrite". To JUDGE someone else for openly practicing sin when you are also openly practicing sin is hypocrisy. So, if someone is openly practicing a lifestyle of sin,or openly professes that they are sinning, you are not judging them as being condemned, God himself has confirmed that, so may you confirm that. Recognizing sin is not judging, telling someone that they are going to go to hell for openly or deliberately practicing a lifestyle of sin, should they not turn to Christ and REPENT, is simply telling them the truth of God's Word and warnings of condemnation and an eternity in hell. If you rob a bank then you are a thief, if I call you a thief I'm not judging you, you confirmed that by robbing the bank. I can say with certainty that anyone who does not accept Christ and REPENT is condemned and will be in hell for all eternity, to say otherwise would be to call God a liar.
No one has said that because it is confirmed that a person is a homosexual, that we are to turn our backs on them, you assume that all by yourself. And your wrong when you say that no "human" can say with certainty that anyone is condemned for their sin, because that is what God himself has said. God has however made it possible to escape such condemnation through Christ's Blood, shed for the forgiveness of our sins on the cross. Should one reject Christ and not REPENT, then that person is condemned and is going to hell, period. The only unforgivable sin is Blasphemy. Blasphemy is the rejection of Christ. We are all sinners, any sin will send us to hell if it is not washed clean with the Blood of Christ. For that to happen, we must accept Christ and Repent, for without REPENTANCE, there can be no forgiveness of our sin, period.
leasantry:I agree Ringo... I would not turn my back on someone because they are a Homosexual or because of their other faults or sins. I have faults... everyone has faults and everyone sins. It is this very time of crisis that these people need others to support and pray for them with even more dedication.
theicemanmpls
Banned
Someone in the "world" & of the"world" (the flesh) that is openly practicing sin and living a lifestyle of sin, certainly cannot judge another for openly practicing a lifestyle of sin. You left out the word before "pick" in Matthew 7:5, the word is "hypocrite". To JUDGE someone else for openly practicing sin when you are also openly practicing sin is hypocrisy. So, if someone is openly practicing a lifestyle of sin,or openly professes that they are sinning, you are not judging them as being condemned, God himself has confirmed that, so may you confirm that. Recognizing sin is not judging, telling someone that they are going to go to hell for openly or deliberately practicing a lifestyle of sin, should they not turn to Christ and REPENT, is simply telling them the truth of God's Word and warnings of condemnation and an eternity in hell. If you rob a bank then you are a thief, if I call you a thief I'm not judging you, you confirmed that by robbing the bank. I can say with certainty that anyone who does not accept Christ and REPENT is condemned and will be in hell for all eternity, to say otherwise would be to call God a liar.
No one has said that because it is confirmed that a person is a homosexual, that we are to turn our backs on them, you assume that all by yourself. And your wrong when you say that no "human" can say with certainty that anyone is condemned for their sin, because that is what God himself has said. God has however made it possible to escape such condemnation through Christ's Blood, shed for the forgiveness of our sins on the cross. Should one reject Christ and not REPENT, then that person is condemned and is going to hell, period. The only unforgivable sin is Blasphemy. Blasphemy is the rejection of Christ. We are all sinners, any sin will send us to hell if it is not washed clean with the Blood of Christ. For that to happen, we must accept Christ and Repent, for without REPENTANCE, there can be no forgiveness of our sin, period.
theicemanmpls
Banned
Google Image Result for http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Evils%20in%20America/Sodomy/episcopal_gays.jpg
Click above. It is a christian view of Gays. Makes me want to vomit.
HK4U
New member
Google Image Result for http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Evils%20in%20America/Sodomy/episcopal_gays.jpg
Click above. It is a christian view of Gays. Makes me want to vomit.
Your whole attitude makes me feel the same.
:bad:
mappow
New member
Homosexuality is the act, a behavior. Behavior is a learned action by an individual. Behavior can be modified. I would say the case of one being born with a defect as inborn homosexual tendencies is rare but dies happen. I've met some Lesbians that looked like Line Backers for the Packers. I've also seen some men extremely feminine looking. These are the anomalies. The rest choose to behave as they do, again a behavior. If consulting adults want a "Civil" union so be it, let God judge. But it should not be called a marriage. I do not believe in same sex marriage nor do I think children should be place with gays. Again as earlier posted, LEARNED BEHAVOR.
"The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities." --author and philosopher Ayn Rand (1905-1982)
"The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities." --author and philosopher Ayn Rand (1905-1982)
Then if a man or woman is sterile and cannot have children then they should not get married? That is exactly your point here that no one should get married if they can't have children. How about the couple that both are in their late 60's and are widowed, can't they get married? I am also a Christian and thousands of children were born to women that the fathers were American"Christian" GI's that would tell you straight that birth control was the worry of a woman, not a real man. I really have trouble differentiating between "men" with that attitude the the priests that like little boys. Both are in it for nothing but themselves and the child victims are nothing more than trash under their feet. At leat with the homosexuals the probability of children becoming sn unwanted piece of trash to them is remote.
All the quotes that you want to spew trying to denounce homosexuality can be found in Exodus, "Thou shall not commit adultery". That will cover it all without having to look any furthure.
theicemanmpls
Banned
Mappow, I must say thank you for using the brain god gave you. You are paying attention to science, and not blindly following the bible.
Psychology was one of the first disciplines to study a homosexual orientation as a discrete phenomenon. The first attempts to classify homosexuality as a disease were made by the fledgling European sexologist movement in the late 19th century. In 1886 noted sexologist Richard von Krafft-Ebing listed homosexuality along with 200 other case studies of deviant sexual practices in his definitive work, Psychopathia Sexualis. Krafft-Ebing proposed that homosexuality was caused by either "congenital [during birth] inversion" or an "acquired inversion". In the last two decades of the 19th century, a different view began to predominate in medical and psychiatric circles, judging such behavior as indicative of a type of person with a defined and relatively stable sexual orientation. In the late 19th and early 20th centuries, pathological models of homosexuality were standard.
The American Psychological Association, the American Psychiatric Association, and the National Association of Social Workers state:
“ In 1952, when the American Psychiatric Association published its first Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, homosexuality was included as a disorder. Almost immediately, however, that classification began to be subjected to critical scrutiny in research funded by the National Institute of Mental Health. That study and subsequent research consistently failed to produce any empirical or scientific basis for regarding homosexuality as a disorder or abnormality, rather than a normal and healthy sexual orientation. As results from such research accumulated, professionals in medicine, mental health, and the behavioral and social sciences reached the conclusion that it was inaccurate to classify homosexuality as a mental disorder and that the DSM classification reflected untested assumptions based on once-prevalent social norms and clinical impressions from unrepresentative samples comprising patients seeking therapy and individuals whose conduct brought them into the criminal justice system.
In recognition of the scientific evidence,[55] the American Psychiatric Association removed homosexuality from the DSM in 1973, stating that “homosexuality per se implies no impairment in judgment, stability, reliability, or general social or vocational capabilities.” After thoroughly reviewing the scientific data, the American Psychological Association adopted the same position in 1975, and urged all mental health professionals “to take the lead in removing the stigma of mental illness that has long been associated with homosexual orientations.” The National Association of Social Workers has adopted a similar policy.
Thus, mental health professionals and researchers have long recognized that being homosexual poses no inherent obstacle to leading a happy, healthy, and productive life, and that the vast majority of gay and lesbian people function well in the full array of social institutions and interpersonal relationships.[3]
The American Psychological Association, American Psychiatric Association, and National Association of Social Workers stated in 2006:
“ Currently, there is no scientific consensus about the specific factors that cause an individual to become heterosexual, homosexual, or bisexual — including possible biological, psychological, or social effects of the parents’ sexual orientation. However, the available evidence indicates that the vast majority of lesbian and gay adults were raised by heterosexual parents and the vast majority of children raised by lesbian and gay parents eventually grow up to be heterosexual.[3] ”
The Royal College of Psychiatrists stated in 2007:
“ Despite almost a century of psychoanalytic and psychological speculation, there is no substantive evidence to support the suggestion that the nature of parenting or early childhood experiences play any role in the formation of a person’s fundamental heterosexual or homosexual orientation. It would appear that sexual orientation is biological in nature, determined by a complex interplay of genetic factors and the early uterine environment. Sexual orientation is therefore not a choice.[60] ”
The American Academy of Pediatrics stated in Pediatrics in 2004:
“ Sexual orientation probably is not determined by any one factor but by a combination of genetic, hormonal, and environmental influences. In recent decades, biologically based theories have been favored by experts. Although there continues to be controversy and uncertainty as to the genesis of the variety of human sexual orientations, there is no scientific evidence that abnormal parenting, sexual abuse, or other adverse life events influence sexual orientation. Current knowledge suggests that sexual orientation is usually established during early childhood.[64][broken citation][60][65]
Homosexuality - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
And is lying with whores and harlots not an abomination? Also does this only cover men with men or does it also cover woman with woman? So you are saying that gays are an abomination but lesbianism is fine.
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