Full reciprocity

[davcommander]

Does anybody know the procedures to get other states to recognize our CCL due to the fact we recognize theirs? States such as OR and ME were OK accepts both Resident and non resident, or NV and WI were OK accepts their resident but they don't recognize ours. Fair and equal recognition would be nice.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Does anybody know the procedures to get other states to recognize our CCL due to the fact we recognize theirs? States such as OR and ME were OK accepts both Resident and non resident, or NV and WI were OK accepts their resident but they don't recognize ours. Fair and equal recognition would be nice.

You would have to change their state laws, in many cases. There is some requirement in their state law that the Oklahoma CCL does not meet or the other state's law prohibits any recognition of out of state permits.

 

[roguejesse]

It's an agreement done by the State's AGs.

 

[NavyLCDR]

It's an agreement done by the State's AGs.

Only if state law allows it. California, Connecticut, Hawaii, Maryland, Massachusettes, New Jersey, Illinois, Oregon, Rhode Island, and New York state Attorney Generals are prohibited by law to make such agreements, for example.

The only states up for discussion are Maine, Nevada and Wisconsin. All the other states whose state law allows for any reciprocity at all already recognize the Oklahoma permit.

In Maine, it is the Chief of State Police that enters into the reciprocity agreements, not the Attorney General, Title 25 MRSA, Part 5, Chapter 252, Subsection 2001-A:
Maine State Police
Gaming and Weapons Section
164 State House Station
Augusta, Maine 04333-0164
(207) 624-7210

In Nevada, it is the Nevada Department of Public Safety and the Nevada Sheriffs’ and Chiefs’ Association must agree to it, NRS 202.3689:
Nevada Department of Public Safety, 333 West Nye lane . Suite 100 . Carson City, NV 89706 . (775) 684-6262

Wisconsin law requires the other state to conduct an FBI NICS check prior to issuing the permit for it to be recognized in WI. I suspect that Oklahoma does not do an actual NICS check.
http://www.doj.state.wi.us/dles/cib/conceal-carry/reciprocity
Wisconsin Department of Justice
P.O. Box 7857
Madison, WI 53707-7857
Phone: (608) 266-1221

While you are waiting for the various legislatures to change the state laws, you can open carry in Nevada with no permit required, and when outside a vehicle you can open carry in Maine and Wisconsin with no permit required.

 

[ozzmanluv269]

Oregon simply does not honor any other states ccl. There have been a few attempts to change this but they are always killed by libtards we have a lot here in OR even if it passed the ass clown of a governor would veto it.

 

[SmithKoWitz]

Oregon simply does not honor any other states ccl. There have been a few attempts to change this but they are always killed, ....... even if it passed the ... clown of a governor would veto it.

So what is the Oregon policy on OPEN CARRY by Non-Residents? What is interesting in Oregon with the conceal permits for Non-Residents is this: You can take a course to get one, but a lot of Sheriff Depts will not grant you the license. In the past I was reading the state law, it makes it appear you are not entitled without an Oregon address or you do business in the state. Yet, people do acquire them that meet neither of those qualifications. The question then becomes, is your license really lawfully legal if state law makes it appear that you cannot legally have one, but a Sheriffs Dept issued you one?

 

[Thrasher_s]

You can get an Oregon ChL if you live in a state that shares a border with Oregon AND can demonstrate a legitimate need or have compelling business interest (see statute below). The key word in the statute is MAY waive the residency requirement. Some sherrifs will, many wont.

" The county sheriff may waive the residency requirement in subsection (1)(c) of this section for a resident of a contiguous state who has a compelling business interest or other legitimate demonstrated need."

 

[cluznar]

This country MUST have CCW Permits issued in ANY state be allowed in every state. We need that change instead of this archaic set of reciprosity we have now. ALL CCW permits good in ANY state. Will there ever be a chance of this?

:help:

 

[SmithKoWitz]

This country MUST have CCW Permits issued in ANY state be allowed in every state. ALL CCW permits good in ANY state.

Yep, this is what we need to strive for. But what do we give to receive? The only way it will ever happen is if there is some form of certification requirement that all states agree upon. If we have the right to bear arms, then that right should be valid in all states equally. No per state or municipality restrictions. I realize carry conceal is not implicitly mentioned in the 2nd Amendment, but I truly doubt it mattered when the Amendment was written; whether it was Open or Concealed. I also doubt they were against you carrying while on your horse or in your wagon (vehicle by todays standards). The Supreme Court of the USA needs to once and for all address these issues. Enough of turning responsible citizens into criminals because they want to travel across the nation and feel safe doing so. We need our Right to Protect ourselves given back to us.

 

[gejoslin]

Arkansas now accepts all CC permits starting this month. We'll find out if we have Constitutional carry this month, we'll see if TPTB fight this or not.

 

[NavyLCDR]

This country MUST have CCW Permits issued in ANY state be allowed in every state. We need that change instead of this archaic set of reciprosity we have now. ALL CCW permits good in ANY state. Will there ever be a chance of this?

:help:

What we really need is for the words "and bear arms" to be recognized in the Second Amendment. You don't have to pay for a license or government permission to exercise your first amendment or 4th amendment rights, or any other rights in the Bill of Rights....why should the Second Amendment be different than all the others?

 

[wolf_fire]

This country MUST have CCW Permits issued in ANY state be allowed in every state. We need that change instead of this archaic set of reciprosity we have now. ALL CCW permits good in ANY state. Will there ever be a chance of this?

:help:

This debate has raged on for many many years. What you are asking is to have the Federal government be in charge of handling CCW permits. This raises more questions and fears then it alleviates.

First, the 2nd Amendment says "shall not be infringed". Our first argument should be why are there permits in the first place? If there were no permit system, then carrying could be done across state lines without a problem.
If you are not one to buy into that argument then you have to ask yourself, if the Federal government were in charge of a National carry permit system, to whose laws do they adhere to? Most likely they would adhere to the states that have the strictest laws. This would mean our carry permits would be as good as a resident in places such as NY, CA, HI, etc.

Be careful what you ask for... you may actually get it.

I would much rather stick with the system we have now, which mandates I understand the laws of my state as well as states that I visit than have any Federal politician creating the standards and practices of the permit system.

 

[NavyLCDR]

This debate has raged on for many many years. What you are asking is to have the Federal government be in charge of handling CCW permits. This raises more questions and fears then it alleviates.

First, the 2nd Amendment says "shall not be infringed". Our first argument should be why are there permits in the first place? If there were no permit system, then carrying could be done across state lines without a problem.
If you are not one to buy into that argument then you have to ask yourself, if the Federal government were in charge of a National carry permit system, to whose laws do they adhere to? Most likely they would adhere to the states that have the strictest laws. This would mean our carry permits would be as good as a resident in places such as NY, CA, HI, etc.

Be careful what you ask for... you may actually get it.

I would much rather stick with the system we have now, which mandates I understand the laws of my state as well as states that I visit than have any Federal politician creating the standards and practices of the permit system.

Didn't the Supreme Court rule that all states must honor all other states' driver's licenses under the full faith and credit clause of the US Constitution? I believe Clunzar is suggesting the same thing.

 

[Seeya]

Why do we need to ask permission of those we employ and elect? A drivers license is a permission to use the public highways for commercial purposes. Private use of the highways which we the people own is a right. A right cannot be taxed. The system we have now is because we the people allow it. The Fed. and the States can ownly license the commercial activities of the people not private activities. I brought this up in the past on these fourums, reshearch it. Use the info in each State to bring back our rights. Elected People are raking in the $$$$ that they should not collect under common law. The only people that have rights are those who stand up and fight for them. I ask is not our system of justice nothing more then a system of peonege? Think about it! You speed over the speed limit in your private vehicle you get a ticket, you pay a fine or lose your license because you have been conditioned to belive that is the law when in fact no one was harmed physicaly or finacialy. You have unwittinly become an indentured servant of the people you elected and employ under color of law. Go do the reshearch many of my posts have links. Informed people know thier rights. When you believe that a law is constitutional and in fact it is not, you become a slave unwittingly thru trust in those you employ or elect.

 

[wolf_fire]

Didn't the Supreme Court rule that all states must honor all other states' driver's licenses under the full faith and credit clause of the US Constitution? I believe Clunzar is suggesting the same thing.

Great point, but does your state require I suddenly change from unleaded gasoline to diesel (NJ, requires you to take your hollow points out and replace with other type ammo)... does your state require that when you drive you limit the number of passengers from 6 to 2 (magazine restriction??)?

The point is for the most part driving laws are equitable across state lines. This is not the case with firearms laws. Do you really want the Federal government to be in charge of making all the states equitable? I for one do not. I do not trust what their definition of equitable would mean. Most would agree that if the Feds had control, then they would make equitable be the most restrictive, because states like NY would cry foul if the Feds eased up on their laws.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Great point, but does your state require I suddenly change from unleaded gasoline to diesel (NJ, requires you to take your hollow points out and replace with other type ammo)... does your state require that when you drive you limit the number of passengers from 6 to 2 (magazine restriction??)?

The point is for the most part driving laws are equitable across state lines. This is not the case with firearms laws. Do you really want the Federal government to be in charge of making all the states equitable? I for one do not. I do not trust what their definition of equitable would mean. Most would agree that if the Feds had control, then they would make equitable be the most restrictive, because states like NY would cry foul if the Feds eased up on their laws.

The Federal government did not mess with any state's traffic laws. The Supreme Court simply ruled that if state X said I was licensed to drive, than states A, B, and C must honor that and grant me the same legal ability to drive in their states that residents in states A, B and C have, in accordance with the laws of states A, B and C respectively. A great step forward would be for the Supreme Court to rule the same regarding firearm licensing. If I have a permit/license from state A, than it would be nice if state B was required by law to allow me to carry a firearm with the same ability that a resident of state B has. Then there comes the question of states like Vermont, though.... would such a ruling require all other states to recognize a Vermont resident's ability to carry a firearm without a permit/license.

Notice I said it would just be a big step forward - not the Constitutional solution to the violation of the Second Amendment that currently exists in this country.

 

[wolf_fire]

The Federal government did not mess with any state's traffic laws. The Supreme Court simply ruled that if state X said I was licensed to drive, than states A, B, and C must honor that and grant me the same legal ability to drive in their states that residents in states A, B and C have, in accordance with the laws of states A, B and C respectively. A great step forward would be for the Supreme Court to rule the same regarding firearm licensing. If I have a permit/license from state A, than it would be nice if state B was required by law to allow me to carry a firearm with the same ability that a resident of state B has. Then there comes the question of states like Vermont, though.... would such a ruling require all other states to recognize a Vermont resident's ability to carry a firearm without a permit/license.

Notice I said it would just be a big step forward - not the Constitutional solution to the violation of the Second Amendment that currently exists in this country.

The reason being is they didn't have to. Is a traffic light in state Y, the same as a traffic light in state X? Yes. The rules and laws regarding driving are fairly similar in all states. Therefore, the Feds didn't need to butt in.

But you get a person from TX, AK, PA, etc that travels to NY, NJ, MD, etc, they are going to find the rules in those states to be quite different regarding firearms. There will be problems with people carrying from state to state and the Feds will step in. I cannot believe in this time and age anyone on this forum would really argue for a Federal intervention of firearms regulation.

Does it suck now that I live in a state where with my license to carry does not allow me to carry in 5 of the 6 bordering states? YES, emphatically, YES. Would it suck more if the Feds intervened. Most likely it would. You have to also realize, that with driving, it is a privilege, with firearms it's a right. Asking the Feds to rule on our rights is a very dangerous thing. For example, I live in PA. Were I to travel to NY with my Glock 22 under the guise of your suggestion, what would happen to me? NY has a ruling that I must carry 7 or less rounds. My G22 holds 15+1. Do I, under your suggestion have to purchase different handguns for different states, or will mine suffice? Will this be answered by the Feds since they now have ruled on our permit system? The answer is the Feds would rule to the most restrictive states. Anytime the Feds tell the States what to do about rights it is a violation of the 10th Amendment. Your parallel to driver's licenses isn't even a parallel.... driving isn't a right and not protected under the Constitution. In all matters that are matters for the States, the Feds need to keep their meddling hands out.

Quite frankly, a much better solution would be if each of the states realized that their licenses to carry and their permits (seriously a PERMIT to do something that is a right) is an infringement and for the states to remove such infringements. But to sit here and argue that we keep these infringements and let the Feds rule that these infringements are equitable across state lines, is just too much for me to swallow.

 

[NavyLCDR]

But you get a person from TX, AK, PA, etc that travels to NY, NJ, MD, etc, they are going to find the rules in those states to be quite different regarding firearms. There will be problems with people carrying from state to state and the Feds will step in. I cannot believe in this time and age anyone on this forum would really argue for a Federal intervention of firearms regulation.

When someone carries in another state now under reciprocity, they have to know the second state's laws anyway, so how can you say with people carrying from state to state there will be problems and the Feds would step in? If the US Supreme Court ruled that every other state had to recognize my license, that would be one LESS law that I would have to follow. Now, I first have to know the law in the "other" state that says my permit is recognized. Federal reciprocity would do away with that requirement. All the other laws of the "other" state I have to know now anyway....so nothing about that would change at all.

 

[SR9]

There was a bill before Congress a year or so ago that would make reciprocity between all states, where each stste would recognize the other. The states would not change their laws, but the CCW holder would have to be arwre of the laws in the stste they traveled and carried in. Well I guess you know what happened. The bill was desk drawered in the Lauhtenberg Judicial Committee until it waS DEAD.

 

[vernsimpson]

This country MUST have CCW Permits issued in ANY state be allowed in every state. We need that change instead of this archaic set of reciprosity we have now. ALL CCW permits good in ANY state. Will there ever be a chance of this?

:help:

I could not agree with you more. But I do not believe it will ever happen. I have heard some talk that in the near future some lib state will come out and say they will not recognize other states marriage certificates if they do not recognize gay marriage. This may spark a civil war between the states on what they will honor. Such as drivers license, license plates, CCW's and anything else they can think of. I hope this will not happen and just a few years ago I would said it would never happen. But today, with the libs and obummer, I would not trust them. It does not seem to matter what the law says. The libs will cherry pick what they want to obey and enforce!