Fox suggests that the purchase of legal firearms caused the shooting


I am interested in some of the comments you all have on this report its from fox news titled NIU campus gunman's friendly exterior masked troubled past here is the link to the whole story:
Link Removed

and i quote:
"On Feb. 9, Kazmierczak walked into a Champaign gun store and picked up two guns — a Remington shotgun and a Glock 9mm handgun. He bought the two other handguns at the same shop — a Hi-Point .380 on Dec. 30 and a Sig Sauer on Aug. 6. All four guns were bought legally from a federally licensed firearms dealer, said Thomas Ahern, a spokesman for the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives. At least one criminal background check was performed — had no criminal record.
Kazmierczak had a State Police-issued FOID, or firearms owners identification card, which is required in Illinois to own a gun, authorities said. Such cards are rarely issued to those with recent mental health problems. NIU President John Peters said Kazmierczak compiled "a very good academic record, no record of trouble" at the 25,000-student campus in DeKalb. He won at least two awards and served as an officer in two student groups dedicated to promoting understanding of the criminal justice system."

my condolences go to the families of the victims of the attack and especially to the family of Mr. Kazmierczak, i can think of nothing more horrifying than to find out my son/brother had perpetrated such an atrocity. lets keep them all in our prayers.
 

jmg9893

New member
Tragedy

Unfortunately I believe this type of phenomena is here to stay for a while. There will continue to be people who buy firearms who have no criminal or psychological background to speak of and then commit heinous acts such as this.

I have personal experience with the subject and it still surprises me when it happens. Sometimes I think I have a solution to a lot of things, some good, some bad, but what are we to do about it? How do we keep guns out of these peoples hands without encroaching on their rights?
 

Unearthed

New member
I am interested in some of the comments you all have on this report its from fox news titled NIU campus gunman's friendly exterior masked troubled past here is the link to the whole story:
Link Removed

and i quote:
"On Feb. 9, Kazmierczak walked into a Champaign gun store and picked up two guns — a Remington shotgun and a Glock 9mm handgun. He bought the two other handguns at the same shop — a Hi-Point .380 on Dec. 30 and a Sig Sauer on Aug. 6. All four guns were bought legally from a federally licensed firearms dealer, said Thomas Ahern, a spokesman for the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives. At least one criminal background check was performed — had no criminal record.
Kazmierczak had a State Police-issued FOID, or firearms owners identification card, which is required in Illinois to own a gun, authorities said. Such cards are rarely issued to those with recent mental health problems. NIU President John Peters said Kazmierczak compiled "a very good academic record, no record of trouble" at the 25,000-student campus in DeKalb. He won at least two awards and served as an officer in two student groups dedicated to promoting understanding of the criminal justice system."

my condolences go to the families of the victims of the attack and especially to the family of Mr. Kazmierczak, i can think of nothing more horrifying than to find out my son/brother had perpetrated such an atrocity. lets keep them all in our prayers.

Fact: Somebody who bought guns legally used them to destroy the lives of countless Americans.

There is nothing that we can do to rebut this fact. Every time a legal gun owner uses their guns illegally, the media is going to make it very very obvious. We like to argue that stricter gun laws are not needed because criminals don't follow laws and all stricter laws do is tighten the noose around the responsible citizen. When that "Theory" goes out the window typically pro-gunners fall back on the 2A and the "Guns don't kill people, people kill people" line, and thats when the moderate thinkers start swaying to the left.
 

DrDavidM

New member
Sadly every felon was once a law abiding citizen. There is no way to keep any weapon from being acquired by every felon. What do we do? I have no idea. I do know that banning handguns is not he answer.
 

sfdtuzolto

New member
One Answer: Take Care of Business

Sadly every felon was once a law abiding citizen. There is no way to keep any weapon from being acquired by every felon. What do we do? I have no idea.

On most of all the recent tragedies such as this, none of the victims or anyone around them were armed, like in the VA Tech shooting. If one student had a conceal carry permit and was packing, that student could have stopped further bloodshed by taking the bad guy out. Remember the off duty cop in the Colorado church? She prevented a slaughter by taking out the bad guy before more were killed. I believe one answer to a problem like this is to have more people armed so when one goes bad, the others can take care of business.
 

DrLewall

Charter Member
On most of all the recent tragedies such as this, none of the victims or anyone around them were armed, like in the VA Tech shooting. If one student had a conceal carry permit and was packing, that student could have stopped further bloodshed by taking the bad guy out. Remember the off duty cop in the Colorado church? She prevented a slaughter by taking out the bad guy before more were killed. I believe one answer to a problem like this is to have more people armed so when one goes bad, the others can take care of business.


Link Removed
 

ecocks

New member
For the record

you should be aware that the woman who killed the Colorado church gunman was a former cop, not an off-duty cop. The only reason for the correction is to avoid that myth that only LEO's should be carrying. She had been a cop in Michigan if I remember correctly (but it might have been somewhere else back east). Also, there were others in the congregation carrying concealed as well, she was the closest one. The Salt Lake (Trolley Square) shooting was stopped by an off-duty and out-of-jurisdiction LEO. This does of course lend support to the national legislation grantiung CCW status to all LEOs and many former ones. Interestingly it should be noted that Chicago is on record with saying that they do not support the national law and were looking to contest non-Illinois LEOs who carried in their jurisdiction. Dekalb is outside of Chicago but those comments still indicate the mentality and degree of brainwashing they have achieved there.
 
This is one reason I believe in background checks for CCW permits, although it failed in this instance. If his troubled past had been available, this may have been prevented. If CCW were allowed on campus maybe this tragedy could have been prevented. If the media wouldn't make these occurrences headline news for days on end maybe others wouldn't look at it as a way of making a name for themselves. There are far to many "ifs" and possibilities to determine the true causes and find preventive actions for all of them.
 

The Gunny

New member
That is interesting.

There is nothing that I can see we can do to prevent someone with no history of crime or mental illness from owning a gun. Just like there is no way of preventing someone from getting a drivers license and driving drunk and killing someone. If there were we would be living in the age of the thought police and I am not going to want to live that long.

I think there is always going to be someone with no record who goes out and commits a crime. Like someone else said all criminals had clean records at one time.

What I would like to know is why is this happening now? I'm talking about the indescriminate killing without motive of unknown people? What are the serious head shrinkers doing to answer that riddle? I am not aware of any other time in the history of this nation this has ever happened. Is it something in the water? I mean come on! I feel like we have too many nuts out on the streets. I was watching the news the day it happened and one of the talking head idiots actually said, " Still no word yet on a possible motive." WTF??!! Hello he was NUTS!! No sane person does this, not one. So is there a shortage of mental institutions? Not enough Xanax or Paxil or whatever? I still see it as a failure of the system in that he was a person with a diagnosed mental disorder. Correct me if I am wrong here but isn't that supposed to disqualify a person from buying firearms? Apparently someone thought it was okay to be a little crazy but they were wrong.

Everyone is going to Monday morning quarterback this one to death. And we should evaluate the situation. But to just offer mindless endless chatter the so-called media offers us these days it is just nauseating. The best they can come up with is do away with all guns. Well in that case here is my answer, since I seem to be about as qualified as they are, no guns for crazy people. Can we just try that one first before we outlaw all guns huh?
 

grizlybear45

New member
what do we do?

On most of all the recent tragedies such as this, none of the victims or anyone around them were armed, like in the VA Tech shooting. If one student had a conceal carry permit and was packing, that student could have stopped further bloodshed by taking the bad guy out. Remember the off duty cop in the Colorado church? She prevented a slaughter by taking out the bad guy before more were killed. I believe one answer to a problem like this is to have more people armed so when one goes bad, the others can take care of business.

well i have to agree here. leo's carry guns and once in a while one goes bad. the same with the general public. i don't know of an all out solution to prevent it. most gun owners will never perform these kinds of acts but a few will. same with car owners. some will get drunk and kill innocent people but most would never. we still have to protect our rights and our families and ourselves. my plan, take them out first. thats the best i can do for now.
 

Scarecrow

New member
I travel a lot. been to russia 9 times. germany a few times. austria. holland. france. finland.. I always ask at some point or another how the crime is.. how the killing rate is. most of the time people say that there is quite a bit. I have had personal friends in russia that have been raped. of course the police their for the most part suck, and unfortunately there is no real way for people to protect themselves. in germany I hear stories about people getting killed then have their body taken to a forest, left in the car and the car is set on fire. the people doing these crimes are doing them without guns. they are just lunatics, which are everywhere. having guns or not having them crime happens. I'm just glad I live in a country where I can own and carry guns to protect myself and my family. people who are that crazy will do stupid things whether or not they have guns. they could just as easy learn how to make a bomb on the internet and go to a crowded area and do just as much, if not more damage. my answer. it's not the gun's fault and has nothing to do with how hard it is to get them.
 
Seems like this guy was a "whack job". He may even be one of those "anti gun" types. Knowing that he wanted to kill himself, he planned it all out, got a bunch of guns and basically kicked the "pro gun" community in the balls.

Being a CJ student, he would know the statistics, and know how the media would spin the story. I think it was a malicious act to get some much needed attention and to make a play against law abiding gun owners.

May this perp rot in HELL! (-:< His actions messed up a lot of lives.


gf
 

Brainchild

New member
Like I said before.Arm everybody and make everybody take a training and safety course.(I THINK I said that.)Then at least everybody would have a fighting chance.
 

Memphis

New member
That is interesting.

There is nothing that I can see we can do to prevent someone with no history of crime or mental illness from owning a gun. Just like there is no way of preventing someone from getting a drivers license and driving drunk and killing someone.

I think that about covers everyone in this forum. Thank you Gunny.
 

DrDavidM

New member
On most of all the recent tragedies such as this, none of the victims or anyone around them were armed, like in the VA Tech shooting. If one student had a conceal carry permit and was packing, that student could have stopped further bloodshed by taking the bad guy out. Remember the off duty cop in the Colorado church? She prevented a slaughter by taking out the bad guy before more were killed. I believe one answer to a problem like this is to have more people armed so when one goes bad, the others can take care of business.

I totally agree with this. I guess I should have been more clear with my post. I was referring to Fox's comment on how the guns were obtained legally. I have no doubt more armed law abiding citizens would decrease these type of activities.
 

mom of 3 angels

New member
That is interesting.

Correct me if I am wrong here but isn't that supposed to disqualify a person from buying firearms?

On the "Over the Counter Firearms Transaction Record" (the long ol' ATF form you have to fill out when you are purchasing a gun) question 11 f. says:

"Have you ever been adjudicated mentally defective (which includes a determination by a court, board, commission, or other lawful authority that you are a danger to yourself or to others or are incompetent to manage your own affairs) OR have you ever been committed to a mental institution?"

Of course, if you answer yes, I would not sell you the firearm (nor would any FFL holder). However, this section was just recently added (on forms for any purchases on or after September 1st, 2007), and I don't get enough news to have heard when this fellow actually purchased the firearms, but if it was before that date, the question about mental health as stated above was not even on the form he filled out.
 

The Gunny

New member
On the "Over the Counter Firearms Transaction Record" (the long ol' ATF form you have to fill out when you are purchasing a gun) question 11 f. says:

"Have you ever been adjudicated mentally defective (which includes a determination by a court, board, commission, or other lawful authority that you are a danger to yourself or to others or are incompetent to manage your own affairs) OR have you ever been committed to a mental institution?"

Of course, if you answer yes, I would not sell you the firearm (nor would any FFL holder). However, this section was just recently added (on forms for any purchases on or after September 1st, 2007), and I don't get enough news to have heard when this fellow actually purchased the firearms, but if it was before that date, the question about mental health as stated above was not even on the form he filled out.

Wow that is surprising didn't know that. Thanks
 

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