For people who doubt the .380 can do the job.


Takes a big man to trap a boar, take all the time in the world to get the shot JUST RIGHT to not even get an instant kill.
You would have been quicker using a mallet.

And just for the record:
I don't hunt. I don't kill things that I don't have to and I certainly didn't expect a video of animal cruelty on a gun forum...

I do not know what you see as cruel in the video. If you eat meat it was killed in a similar fashion at the slaughterhouse.
“Typically, pigs are first rendered unconscious using one of the following means: stunning using electric current applied with electrodes, or stunning using captive bolt pistol, and inhalation of CO2, then in some cases a .22 pistol/rifle which is shot directly into the brain”.
Pig slaughter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Your mallet idea would potentially be cruel, as well as dangerous to the man. The first blow(s) could be off-target inflicting injury and pain. Hunters do not always kill instantly on the first shot.

They removed an animal that was threat to livestock and crops. Feral pigs are a health hazard to livestock and humans. Capturing and moving the hog would have spread the problem to someone else.
Link Removed


“The wild hogs can now be found in three-fourths of U.S. states — and their populations are growing in many areas — and are estimated to cause $1.5 billion in damages each year, the Associated Press reports. There are currently more than 5 million wild hogs in the United States, according to the U.S. Department of Agriculture”.
Feral Pigs Going Hog-Wild in US


They harvested this animal to remove a hazard and to provide food. I skipped to the end of the video. They talked about the amount of meat on the animal. They were loading it for transport to a local meat processor.
 

rifleshooter474

New member
I do not know what you see as cruel in the video. If you eat meat it was killed in a similar fashion at the slaughterhouse.
“Typically, pigs are first rendered unconscious using one of the following means: stunning using electric current applied with electrodes, or stunning using captive bolt pistol, and inhalation of CO2, then in some cases a .22 pistol/rifle which is shot directly into the brain”.
Pig slaughter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Your mallet idea would potentially be cruel, as well as dangerous to the man. The first blow(s) could be off-target inflicting injury and pain. Hunters do not always kill instantly on the first shot.

They removed an animal that was threat to livestock and crops. Feral pigs are a health hazard to livestock and humans. Capturing and moving the hog would have spread the problem to someone else.
Link Removed


“The wild hogs can now be found in three-fourths of U.S. states — and their populations are growing in many areas — and are estimated to cause $1.5 billion in damages each year, the Associated Press reports. There are currently more than 5 million wild hogs in the United States, according to the U.S. Department of Agriculture”.
Feral Pigs Going Hog-Wild in US


They harvested this animal to remove a hazard and to provide food. I skipped to the end of the video. They talked about the amount of meat on the animal. They were loading it for transport to a local meat processor.

I think a lot of people see the hog in a cage,like ISIS caged people and set them on fire. It's the cage holding the hog that makes the video along with shooting it that has many unhappy with it.
I recall the US Government was shooting cows to test the .45acp, when testing Ammo. in replacing the 38spl. So using animals in firearm tests is nothing new. Do many like these test I don't think so.
 

aacx22

Tested Selected Initiated
I've heard folks say they carry a 9mm, 40, or .45, as primary and then say they carry a .22, .25, .32, or .380, as a back up. Well... if a .22, etc, is good enough for a back up why aren't those folks carrying a .22, etc, for a primary as well?

Bottom line is really quite simple... carry the largest caliber in the size of gun that you will actually carry that you personally... and I mean YOU personally... can shoot the most accurately. Doesn't matter what anyone else says because only hits make holes (regardless of the size of the bullet) and misses make no holes of any size.

Only holes count.

I guess it depends what you are preparing for. If you want a backup in case your gun malfunctions, then maybe you want something like it. If you're preparing for something like you're guns been knocked away and a dude is enaged with you in a melee, maybe a belly gun is more what you want? I dunno... each person prepares for what they are concerned about.
 

XD40scinNC

New member
I've heard folks say they carry a 9mm, 40, or .45, as primary and then say they carry a .22, .25, .32, or .380, as a back up. Well... if a .22, etc, is good enough for a back up why aren't those folks carrying a .22, etc, for a primary as well?

Bottom line is really quite simple... carry the largest caliber in the size of gun that you will actually carry that you personally... and I mean YOU personally... can shoot the most accurately. Doesn't matter what anyone else says because only hits make holes (regardless of the size of the bullet) and misses make no holes of any size.

Only holes count.

People that carry a backup (bug) often carry it where a larger caliber/capacity gun is not practical. I can carry my XD40sc in a IWB holster with no problem. If I had to carry it on my ankle I'd walk around like I was peg leg pete.
 
B

Bikenut

Guest
People that carry a backup (bug) often carry it where a larger caliber/capacity gun is not practical. I can carry my XD40sc in a IWB holster with no problem. If I had to carry it on my ankle I'd walk around like I was peg leg pete.
And yet there are some who say that there are smaller guns in bigger calibers than those lowly .22, .25, .32, and .380, that would be suitable for a bug. Thing is...if the caliber is why folks are choosing the primary why isn't caliber also a primary concern for a bug? Or, conversely, if a caliber is suitable for a bug why wouldn't it also be suitable for a primary? After all... we (who carry bugs) are relying on the effectiveness of the bug's caliber too.
 

XD40scinNC

New member
And yet there are some who say that there are smaller guns in bigger calibers than those lowly .22, .25, .32, and .380, that would be suitable for a bug. Thing is...if the caliber is why folks are choosing the primary why isn't caliber also a primary concern for a bug? Or, conversely, if a caliber is suitable for a bug why wouldn't it also be suitable for a primary? After all... we (who carry bugs) are relying on the effectiveness of the bug's caliber too.

I don't recall a .380 that has the capacity of 16+ rounds. Most of the bugs are 5+1 or 6+1.

My 40 is 9+1 or 12+1.
Wife's 9mm is 13+1 or 16+1

And yet there are times that a .380 is our primary.
 
B

Bikenut

Guest
I don't recall a .380 that carries 16+ rounds. My 40 is 9+1 or 12+1.

Most of the bugs are 5+1 or 6+1
Some of the guns folks use as primaries also have a 7 or 8 round capacity.

I understand there are many factors as to why folks choose which guns they carry, primary and bug, ranging from weight to physical size to ability to handle recoil to mode of dress and ammo capacity. And yet those who carry a smaller caliber for a bug are relying on the smaller caliber to do the job just as much as they are relying on the larger caliber. Perhaps even more since the purpose of a bug is to finish what the primary couldn't.

So it seems odd to me that some folks dismiss smaller calibers as inadequate for primary guns that are quite often considered acceptable for back up guns to use when the larger caliber primary has failed to get the job done.
 

aacx22

Tested Selected Initiated
I'd think of a .22 or something like that if I wanted something very small... like NA Arms small. But aside from that, I can't imagine I'd need anything smaller than my SR9c. Maybe the smallest would be a LC9. But I don't currently plan to.
 

Stan45

New member
Bad guys are cowards, and they will turn tail and run away from anyone shooting at them. Many successful self-defense shootings have occurred with 22lr, 25ACP, 32ACP and .380.

Bad guys don't check out the caliber when a victim draws, they immediately realize they made a poor choice when picking out their victim.

You must have been on another planet when the Ferguson shooting went down. The bad guy was trying to take the officers gun, was shot, then he charged like a bull.
Bad guys are cowards, I'll agree.
Bad guys will turn and run, some might and for a fact some do not.
 

XD40scinNC

New member
You must have been on another planet when the Ferguson shooting went down. The bad guy was trying to take the officers gun, was shot, then he charged like a bull.
Bad guys are cowards, I'll agree.
Bad guys will turn and run, some might and for a fact some do not.

That is an incident where the cop initiated the contact, and the bad guy knew if he turned and ran he would be chased.

I am NOT a cop, I do not initiate contact.

If the store clerk had pulled a gun Michale Brown would have likely turned an ran.

To compare a cop trying to stop a bad guy vs. Joe citizen just trying to protect himself makes me to wonder what planet your on.
 

NavyLCDR

New member
Some of the guns folks use as primaries also have a 7 or 8 round capacity.

I understand there are many factors as to why folks choose which guns they carry, primary and bug, ranging from weight to physical size to ability to handle recoil to mode of dress and ammo capacity. And yet those who carry a smaller caliber for a bug are relying on the smaller caliber to do the job just as much as they are relying on the larger caliber. Perhaps even more since the purpose of a bug is to finish what the primary couldn't.

So it seems odd to me that some folks dismiss smaller calibers as inadequate for primary guns that are quite often considered acceptable for back up guns to use when the larger caliber primary has failed to get the job done.

You are assuming that a BUG is used when you run out of ammo for the primary gun and the threat still exists. That's what extra magazines are for. The BUG is for when the primary gun becomes inoperable due to a severe jam, other mechanical malfunction, or the primary gun is knocked out of your hand or taken by the bad guy.
 
B

Bikenut

Guest
Originally Posted by Bikenut View Post
Some of the guns folks use as primaries also have a 7 or 8 round capacity.

I understand there are many factors as to why folks choose which guns they carry, primary and bug, ranging from weight to physical size to ability to handle recoil to mode of dress and ammo capacity. And yet those who carry a smaller caliber for a bug are relying on the smaller caliber to do the job just as much as they are relying on the larger caliber. Perhaps even more since the purpose of a bug is to finish what the primary couldn't.

So it seems odd to me that some folks dismiss smaller calibers as inadequate for primary guns that are quite often considered acceptable for back up guns to use when the larger caliber primary has failed to get the job done.
You are assuming that a BUG is used when you run out of ammo for the primary gun and the threat still exists. That's what extra magazines are for. The BUG is for when the primary gun becomes inoperable due to a severe jam, other mechanical malfunction, or the primary gun is knocked out of your hand or taken by the bad guy.
Actually I'm not assuming anything since a person could carry many spare mags for their primary and for a bug too. It is unlikely anyone would carry spare mags for their bug (unless their bug and their primary were the same gun) yet it is possible. I was only addressing the comment about primary guns having more capacity than a bug.

Regardless... the capacity issue doesn't address the fact that folks are still relying on the smaller caliber bug to be a last ditch save my arse caliber. Which makes me wonder if a person is going to rely on the smaller caliber for last ditch (which is still relying on that smaller caliber to save the day) then why do some folks speak against the smaller calibers? Or why, if they are going to rely on the smaller caliber to be a last ditch save the day caliber that same caliber isn't good enough to be the primary caliber?
 

Nick Burkhardt

New member
It's all about shot placement. Shooting the Bull did a very good write up on the Waffle House defensive gun use where the CHL holder used three shots from a 40 against his attacker who rushed in then rushed out after being shot

The bullets hit 1) in the arm (which passed through),
2) in the chest (with no indication of it having done substantial damage to the body) and
3) in the shoulder. The shoulder bullet traveled through the shoulder into the chest, where it did substantial damage before coming to rest in the abdomen. This bullet hit the spleen and kidney, but it also hit two major circulatory organs, the Inferior Vena Cava (the main vein leading back to the heart) and the Iliac Aorta. It is the autopsy doctor’s opinion that this bullet was the cause of death, due to “massive internal bleeding.”
 

osbornk

New member
I carry a 380 because I know I won't carry my 38 special revolver or 9mm semi-auto because they are heavier than I would EDC and I feel my little 22lr semi-auto is inadequate. I will carry my little 10 oz. pistol and I feel it is adequate for 99% of the situations I might encounter.
 

Ringo

A WATCHMAN
Wild Bill used the .36 cap and ball with great success. I'm a believer in marksmanship and target placement before power and magic bullets. The round in my Glock 42 is SIG SAUER 100 gr. FMJ Flatpoint. Be it a .45 or a .380, two in the chest and one in the head and the BG won't know the difference. Dead is dead.
 

r1derbike

New member
OK, the .380 primary carry sidearm is anyone's choice, but I will never consider it for that role. For all the reasons given for a BUG, one use has not been mentioned; give a citizen the BUG to help in a BG gunfight, where another armed citizen might even, or exceed the odds that you both might survive the ordeal.

I carry a 19+1 9mm XDm 4.5" defensive, service size sidearm with one extra mag., Viridian enabled with auto-on when drawn. That's 39 rounds of protection, and I carry IWB or OWB with a hidden hybrid holster.

Carry a 5+1 .45 XD-S with a 7-round backup mag., in the summer, mostly IWB with a Nate Squared Pro holster.

Don't carry a BUG. My choice ATM, but may change given my state of mind. Lots of good reasons to carry a BUG, so still keeping the choice open. It would have to be a very small mouse gun, in my case.

That's my 2 cents, if worth that much...
 

r1derbike

New member
Wild Bill used the .36 cap and ball with great success. I'm a believer in marksmanship and target placement before power and magic bullets. The round in my Glock 42 is SIG SAUER 100 gr. FMJ Flatpoint. Be it a .45 or a .380, two in the chest and one in the head and the BG won't know the difference. Dead is dead.
Goin' Mogadishu has its advantages...yes.
 

NavyLCDR

New member
Here's a question - which gun has the most "element of surprise"? We all know how afraid of the "element of surprise" criminals are....
 

BluesStringer

Les Brers
Here you go all you big caliber people:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7u6-9VXiBDw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhfKSXWLNxg


Now tell me the .380 is not enough gun.

[The .380 is not enough gun for me.]

The above reply to the OP (in brackets) was written yesterday shortly after the OP was posted, but I had an epiphany before hitting "Post Reply" that to answer the tool who made the OP is to encourage him to keep posting his inanities, so I hit "Cancel" and moved on. "Restore Auto-Saved Content" was still here since I didn't post anything else yesterday.

Here's a question - which gun has the most "element of surprise"? We all know how afraid of the "element of surprise" criminals are....

I'll tell y'all about the "element of surprise" that has overtaken me since yesterday, is that anyone who's been on this board for more than a month or so still takes cluznar's OPs seriously in any way whatsoever. For any newcomers who might not know, cluznar is a self-described gun-control advocate. Here's just a couple of excerpts from a post he made on some kind of creative writing website a few years ago. The link is dead now, but it was definitely written by cluznar. This is the link to the post from which the below link originally appeared:

Link Removed

....When someone who owns handguns and talks illogically about their guns, it could be a sign they need help.....

...Another good way to help gun control is by having college classes which focus on people who have problems and may own guns. College students should be aware of other students who seem to have a bad attitude and also own guns. Students should be encouraged to tell college officials if they know another student who owns guns and may be having social or mental problems. It could be done anonymously and might save other peoples lives.

....As for gun bans, without a doubt assault rifles must be banned, citizens have no need for assault rifles in an educated society.

Why does anyone even "patronize" this guy's threads?

Blues
 

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