Food For Thought


retiredman

New member
Looking for opinions!

I have read lots of publications on different types of bullet sizes, and the amount it takes to stop someone.

The average is a little over two shots according to statistics.

Now How in the heck can you shoot 2.8 bullets? or 2.3, or the such.

These reports are stupid. Ok they spout out numbers from tests of stopping another, however wouldn't it be better to say it takes three shots instead of 2.8?

I guess us older shooters just haven't figured out how to shoot that .8 bullet.

So the average stopping shots in my mind is THREE SHOTS.

Don't ever look for me to stop at two.

One more thing they don't say much about is where these shots land on the human body. Is it Three shots in the hand? or Three to the chest.

I guess those that write the statistics don't care much, because it only seems they are trying to say this shell is better then that one.

In my humble opinion! should I ever encounter a person and have to shoot him or her, I won't be counting shots. When my gun stops going bang! --- I will either reload, or see if the threat is finished.

That is my opinion! I don't care what someone carries, nor do I care what caliber it is.

Just do all you can to protect yourself, family, or whatever is necessary at the time.

Remember! make sure you are in eminent danger at the time, and that you reasonably fear for your life or another around you.

Carry safe and remember Caution is your best option.
 

Cotillion

New member
Well since you're handing out some advice here's some for you!

Unloading your clip is a sure fire way to get 2nd degree murder!
 

retiredman

New member
Not so in this state! I know a cop that shot a perp 27 times, and walked away. The reason!

He still had a gun in his hand, and just killed my friend, so I kept shooting till it was out of his hand.

I didn't want to be next!

No charge - You sir are in error!
 

Nightmare45

NRA LIFE MEMBER
If you perceive a threat to your life from an armed opponent there is no limit to the number of bullets you may expend to stop the threat. Initally you will get a double tap followed another to the brain cavity if you are still coming bullets will still be coming.
 

Cotillion

New member
"Technically" the laws state use of necessary force in almost every state, however that never stops the police/da from charging you. Typically it will all fall under what was said and how much you choose to give away, but every time a firearm is used there is always that chance. Personally I'm 100% with you in that if my life's in danger I should think a bullet count wouldn't matter in a situation where your adrenaline is flowing and the only thought running through your mind is you or them, but with all the goofy law suits and trumped up charges I've seen in this country it wouldn't surprise me if "accidental murder by misuse of a deadly weapon" or some other silly charge was filed. Like that younger guy that got his sentence today, he was charged with that and was sentenced to 10 years jail, 10 years parole for shooting while 7 men were gonna attack him
 

Iam2Taz

New member
I believe you shoot until the BG stops. That may be one shot. (I hope!) Perhaps 3 and possibly everything I have. I will never know until he / she doesn't stop.
 

Deserteagle

New member
It may seem weird that the statistic comes out to an average of 2.8 bullets but its an average. This means that more times than not, it will take closer to 3 bullets than 2, but I dont think these statistics mean anything useful to any of us.
 

BRBruce

New member
Even a miss with a .22 is often efficient enough to stop a threat.

I'm not in the business of training people to miss. If you have to shoot, make it count. I wouldn't advise carrying a .22, but you gotta dance with what you brung.
 

NavyLCDR

New member
Not so in this state! I know a cop that shot a perp 27 times, and walked away. The reason!

He still had a gun in his hand, and just killed my friend, so I kept shooting till it was out of his hand.

I didn't want to be next!

No charge - You sir are in error!

And you REALLY think the same standards are applied to Joe Citizen?

Just one fine example:
FREE JOHNNIE BECK
 

tuts40

New member
Retiredman,
"How the heck can you shoot 2.8 bullets?" you ask in regard to the report? Ever hear of "average". I'll give you an example.

Hector burns 10 U.S. flags while in Texas. Five burned completely in 3 minutes, four burned in five minutes and one burned in 6 minuts. Most people would say that 5x3 + 4x5 + 6, divided by ten gives an average of 4.1 minutes. But hell, I say tattoo an American flag on Hectors forehead.
 

Garyg

New member
Since this thread seems to be moving to "caliber and bullet weight" discussion, a read of "The Gun Digest Book of Concealed Carry" by Massad Ayoob (2008, available on Amazon, for one source) has a very broad and good discussion of self defense rounds and their balistics. Certainly there are others similar; but Ayoob speaks from a lifetime of experience.
 

Semper

New member
One shot, two shots or twenty seven point eight, if you're facing Godzilla ... but the real estate rule still trumps all, "location, location, location.
 

Tucker's Mom

New member
Not so in this state! I know a cop that shot a perp 27 times, and walked away. The reason!

He still had a gun in his hand, and just killed my friend, so I kept shooting till it was out of his hand.

I didn't want to be next!

No charge - You sir are in error!
And in Florida, we had read about this guy who was shot 68 times and the officers who shot him walked away too. I just love it when the coroner was asked why the guy died from "natural" causes. He said "If you were shot 68 times, naturally you will die!"

Sorry about your friend, retiredman...:cray:
 

Stratocaster

New member
Shooting another person is the last thing any sane person would want to do. But if it must be done, keep at it until there is no longer a threat.
 
J

JSDinTexas

Guest
The shooting incidents I read about all have different circumstances and no two are the same. So I suggest that no matter what the majority opinion, or the outcome, or legal actions, each situation merits its own examination and conclusions. And there is no way to presuppose my actions.

If I need to make some decisions, I start with the basics:
1) Why do I carry? To defend myself from serious harm or death
2) How do I defend myself from serious harm or death? With overwhelming response ie. deadly force
3) What type of deadly force? A firearm
4) How do I apply deadly force with a firearm? By hitting the target with sufficient effect

So taking the 4 points into account, I use a reasonable caliber (.40 for me) and have trained and conditioned myself to apply without hesitation an adequate amount of deadly force to accomplish the objective, which can mean very likely more than one shot.
 

Gordon Shumway

New member
retiredman asks for opinions, then argues. mmmmm.
So here's mine:

Educated people understand averages.

Facts are that a justifiable shooting is firing the weapon until the threat is neutralized.

Once the perp starts to fall or has landed on the floor, the threat is PROBABLY neutralized, but watch the perps gun hand closely. Additional shots might be required.

Most everybody realizes that the holes in the perp and even the bullet strikes on the environment can be determined to have been shot when the perp was going down, etc. i.e. after the threat has been neutralized.

Excessive use of force will get the defender charged with a crime.

High adrenalin/panic situations advocate that the defender usually misses his intended target and the elusive "one shot stop" from his "magic bullet of the month" is lost to paniced aiming and hurried firing. Consider also that if there are more than one armed perp, the odds of downing more than two are slim to none. Clock time necessary to fire off your rounds allows the third perp to pop YOU. This is real life, not the movies.

As I have often said, "An eyeball hit with a .22R is better than a miss with a .44 Magnum."

Did you see the video of the pharmacist who emptied his gun and then got his shotgun to finish the downed perp? HE has a serious legal problem.
 

JohnLM

New member
sFe:229830 said:
Even a miss with a .22 is often efficient enough to stop a threat.
Thats true in a sense. Even the sound of the gun going off is enough to have the BG running like a bat out of hell
 

retiredman

New member
The point of my disscusion is! -- When shooting you don't use mathematical numbers to stop someone.

They're only good to those that make them. When you shoot you do what you have too!-- Excuse me sir should I use a average when I kill you, or use what ever it takes.

Reports don't mean anything to someone in fear of their life. You do what you have to -- to survive.

Shoot until the threat is gone and then tell them to add that to a statistic.

Why else would people carry a extra mag with them? Hell just carry One bullet! -- No wait that was Barney Fife. Better carry 2.8 shells.
 

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