FNH 5.8 Semi Auto
- Thread starter kelcarry
- Start date
Appreciate all comments. When you get complete reliability, light weight, high capcacity, low recoil, and a calibre that if you are using custom ammunition, will be as effective as a 45, you have an ideal weapon. Cost is high but the firearm is forever. The FN 57 is all these things and I am now shopping.
TekGreg
New member
Not Willing to think "Out of the Box."
I do not own the Five SeveN, but I have shot it, and can confirm the .22mag recoil and extremely inherent accuracy of this platform. I noted this had a lot of the same characteristics as the .357Sig and both are what could be considered a "non-standard" cartridge. The problem is, people like standards because they are very easy to understand and explain and they do not step outside of easily defined parameters. In 1941, it was very easy to explain how a .22, a .38 and a .45 all worked in relation to each other - they all had full metal jackets and they all used the same powder. Unfortunately, 70 years has passed, hundreds of technologies have been applied to firearms, powders, bullet design and the firearm itself, and shooters, gun writers, bloggers and "experts" are still talking and using the platitudes of seven decades past!
The FN Five SeveN is a bottle-necked rifle cartridge with a (roughly) long .22 bullet topping it. The problem with this "simplification" is that it now does not allow the round to be "justified" in people's minds between what it looks like, what the statistics say it can do, and what 70 years of platitudes tell us a .22 can, and can't, do. The fact that it is a dynamically engineered round that is pushing the technological envelope and doesn't deserve to be cataloged with ANY other handgun round doesn't seem to matter to anyone discussing or writing about this round. And the fact that you need to pay over $1,000 for the platform to launch this "over-developed, designer plinking round" is absolutely ridiculous...right? (WRONG!) I mean, no ".22 pistol" should cost over $400, and that should be for one of the good, American brands! (Sarcasm included)
There have been so many things talked about in shooting for so long that many of us now believe they are cold, hard facts, when in truth anything can be changed by the application of technology and human ingenuity. One man started in the '80's reading about "One-shot Stops" and read about it for 20 years, then collected actual shooting data for over a decade to find out how often it actually happens. The compilation of his data can be found in a page here and it's very interesting. However, it doesn't support the "Big Bullet Theory" for anyone...not .45, .44mag, .41mag or any big caliber. WE ARE IN A DIFFERENT WORLD than back when the only thing you had to worry about an attacker being was drunk...when was that, say, 70 years ago?
Our thinking MUST change and it must change based on FACT. This is one industry where opinion should really not count for anything because too much of it has been influenced for too long incorrectly. I honestly believe we all do it with the best of intentions, but to one degree or another, we have all been poisoned, either through misinformation, or through information that was, in its time, correct, but is now outdated and we continue to pass it along because we have not updated our own "databases!"
Let's be open to new technologies, drastically redesigned calibers (a .22 that STOPS like a .45??? I think I need to check this out more!), new frame materials, and anything else that comes along that could make our lives and the lives of those we train easier if we have the CORRECT, UPDATED information to pass along!
I do not own the Five SeveN, but I have shot it, and can confirm the .22mag recoil and extremely inherent accuracy of this platform. I noted this had a lot of the same characteristics as the .357Sig and both are what could be considered a "non-standard" cartridge. The problem is, people like standards because they are very easy to understand and explain and they do not step outside of easily defined parameters. In 1941, it was very easy to explain how a .22, a .38 and a .45 all worked in relation to each other - they all had full metal jackets and they all used the same powder. Unfortunately, 70 years has passed, hundreds of technologies have been applied to firearms, powders, bullet design and the firearm itself, and shooters, gun writers, bloggers and "experts" are still talking and using the platitudes of seven decades past!
The FN Five SeveN is a bottle-necked rifle cartridge with a (roughly) long .22 bullet topping it. The problem with this "simplification" is that it now does not allow the round to be "justified" in people's minds between what it looks like, what the statistics say it can do, and what 70 years of platitudes tell us a .22 can, and can't, do. The fact that it is a dynamically engineered round that is pushing the technological envelope and doesn't deserve to be cataloged with ANY other handgun round doesn't seem to matter to anyone discussing or writing about this round. And the fact that you need to pay over $1,000 for the platform to launch this "over-developed, designer plinking round" is absolutely ridiculous...right? (WRONG!) I mean, no ".22 pistol" should cost over $400, and that should be for one of the good, American brands! (Sarcasm included)
There have been so many things talked about in shooting for so long that many of us now believe they are cold, hard facts, when in truth anything can be changed by the application of technology and human ingenuity. One man started in the '80's reading about "One-shot Stops" and read about it for 20 years, then collected actual shooting data for over a decade to find out how often it actually happens. The compilation of his data can be found in a page here and it's very interesting. However, it doesn't support the "Big Bullet Theory" for anyone...not .45, .44mag, .41mag or any big caliber. WE ARE IN A DIFFERENT WORLD than back when the only thing you had to worry about an attacker being was drunk...when was that, say, 70 years ago?
Our thinking MUST change and it must change based on FACT. This is one industry where opinion should really not count for anything because too much of it has been influenced for too long incorrectly. I honestly believe we all do it with the best of intentions, but to one degree or another, we have all been poisoned, either through misinformation, or through information that was, in its time, correct, but is now outdated and we continue to pass it along because we have not updated our own "databases!"
Let's be open to new technologies, drastically redesigned calibers (a .22 that STOPS like a .45??? I think I need to check this out more!), new frame materials, and anything else that comes along that could make our lives and the lives of those we train easier if we have the CORRECT, UPDATED information to pass along!
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Hey Tek: Examine some of the ballistics and some of the gel tests and you can find "CORRECT, UPDATED information to pass along". You discuss needing to check this out more after you basically dismiss the firearm with your "overdeveloped designer plinking round" statement. I guess that is why police around the country have started using this weapon and it is very much used in military circles here and around the world. I assume they all want to "plink" with $1000 guns. If you check ballistics, gel tests and use the 57 Forum to find more information, you will find that this firearm combines, as I said before, low weight, low recoil, high capacity, extreme reliability and accuracy, and lethality---what else do you want in a firearm? $1000?---spread it out over your ownership lifetime and factor in all of its abilities and credentials and it is not expensive--it is a prudent expenditure for an almost perfect handgun. Please check out more details. Your comments were interesting and I would like to see additional comments once you have had a chance review "CORRECT, UPDATED" information.
TekGreg
New member
Kelcarry, I was replying from my phone and that was supposed to be sarcasm! I am in full agreement with you that this is a fully serious carry round and a manstopper. I'm sorry I wasn't able to add the appropriate punctuation to make that clear. I was making fun of the people that thought, since it was "only a .22" that it was just a fancy .22 behind a rifle round, making it a "designer round," a comment that came out of a conversation I actually had with someone! And the SAAMI pressures this gun must have to deal with would fully justify the $1,000 price - I didn't look it up, but the chrono on the round means the pressure and the barrel would have to be better than your standard low-pressure rounds. I know I wouldn't want a round like this coming out of a $400 gun! At least not too many times. The point is, this is a top-quality gun meant to last a lifetime and it fires a fully serious manstopper round as long as you are willing to accept the ballistics and read the facts.
Hey Tek: Appreciate your reply and sorry for not appreciating your nuances in your first reply. For $1000 or more, I am going to do my due diligence to its maximum and have yet to find anything that tells me this firearm does anything I would not want the ideal handgun to have. If anything, just looking at the bullet can scare me and, with Elite Ammunition, its lethality is almost more than I can appreciate---I am not a super ops kind of guy--just looking to protect my home with the best out there in a handgun. I doubt I would carry it even though it is light; bulges and "stuff" around my waist etal just "bother me". I have a 380 for CC, which I can live with. I really like the idea that for low recoil (and, therefore, control of firearm under duress) I can have lethality and high capacity and complete reliability without a thought of a FTF. Still want to sell my 38 and a 22 pistol and save a few more dollars before I go this route.
Opportunity presented itself to take advantage of what I considered a good price for a new FN 5.7x28. To those of you who expressed interest in this thread, perhaps you have opinions on self defense ammunition for the firearm. Leaning to 195 hollows for home defense and 197s for range. I do know there is Elite Ammunition out there which is custom and expensive, and seems to be more than what I need for home/self defense. I am not looking to fire this gun at distances greater than say 30 ft and I think the 195 hollow will do the trick. Comments?
With the exception of a couple hunting rounds that EA makes, any 5.7 ammo made by FH or EA will do what you want it to do. 197 will certainly get the job done, if necessary, in the self defense department. 195 is lead free so who knows how long that round will last in storage, but I would guess at least 5 years. 197 is cheaper than 195 by a few bucks a box, but both are good rounds for range/self defense.
Yeah! I have a comment...... You lucky bum!
If I can ask, what did you finally dump on it? Post pictures please.
Hey Walt: NIB, free shipping, $870. Just need to pay the $10-20 for FFL and, of course, buy some ammo at prices I am not used to, especially with my 22LR. Got to bite the bullet and practice a bit, but my hope is that I will be nicely surprised by the low recoil and find the FN to be REEEAL EASY.
Providence Ranch
New member
The performance of the round seems impressive. I'm with G50AE though: I'll wait until Glock puts a model 57 out! Ha.
Hey Providence and G: Just like with the proliferation of the 380 mouses, which seem to have everybody on the bandwagon, the Big G could very well decide that FN has more business then they should and put out a 5.7. Another possibility that is, perhaps, more realistic on an immediate basis is the introduction of a 22 that is one step above a 22 mag and really has a "punch". The Keltec PMR30, which I was looking at certainly is a lot cheaper and if (big word--if) its design and the basic design of a rimfire cartridge can assure literally 100% reliability on usage, this coul be the next step in trying to combine lo recoil and effective lethality. One thing I do know is that my bucks are being spent on a very well made, reliable, top of the line firearm. If the Big G can duplicate for a lot less money--they could have a winner. In the meantime I will have my new birthday toy and not look back.
PS: Thank you 442 for your reply on ammo. My feelings right now seem to say that the 195, which is hollow point, is the ammo of choice for defense. The difference in price between 195 and 197 is about $2-3 per 50 which is small enough to use the preferred 195 for practice, since it is what I would have in the FN at home. Once I pay all this off, maybe I will explore the Elite ammo line and investigate the advantages for home defense with their more potent ammo--right now my thought is that at the 30 ft max in my home, I think Elite power is just overkill (pardon the pun).
PS: Thank you 442 for your reply on ammo. My feelings right now seem to say that the 195, which is hollow point, is the ammo of choice for defense. The difference in price between 195 and 197 is about $2-3 per 50 which is small enough to use the preferred 195 for practice, since it is what I would have in the FN at home. Once I pay all this off, maybe I will explore the Elite ammo line and investigate the advantages for home defense with their more potent ammo--right now my thought is that at the 30 ft max in my home, I think Elite power is just overkill (pardon the pun).
I suspect you might be waiting a while. Glock seems to be happy to let FN have the 5.7 handgun market to itself. It would be great if FN would have some competition, but I don't see that happening anytime soon.
Take a look at EA's accurazing package. I usually use EA as my SD round, but since I got my FsN accurized, I need to break it again so I am going to shoot a few hundred 197s to break it in. EA ammo is pretty expensive to use at the range, but for SD it is quite good. They have sales from time to time.
It would be nice for Glock to come out with a 5.7 round gun. Hopefully the competition would force FN to drop the price (I have seen the gun going for over $1100 in some places), and perhaps ammo prices to drop as well. Cabelas have a nice sale going on now of 500 SS197SRs and an ammo can for about $180. Nice ammo though I believe the EA ammo as well as SS192 and SS195LF is better. SS192 is the same round as the SS195LF, but the 192 is not lead free.
Wow! $870 is still steep but a good price from what I've seen at the local shop. They have one NIB listed "on sale" for $945. Still with my expense account, I can't justify it. Well... let us all know if it lives up to your expectations. And PICTURES man!
Got a surprise birthday present---since I am author of this thread I have been talking about the 5.7 for some time. Wife agreed that it would be a nice present. Picking it up tomorrow. Took delivery of some 195LF cartridges today and am looking forward to later in the week at the range.
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