Florida bank manager fired for carrying concealed
- Thread starter SR9
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BUmmedic
New member
Better check the employee manual... (1) to make sure that there isn't a policy in place already that forbids employees from doing so, and (2) to have a copy of the manual available so someone can't sneak one in post-incident.
I have a legal CCW permit, and my place of employment could probably terminate me if I carried and was discovered.
I have a legal CCW permit, and my place of employment could probably terminate me if I carried and was discovered.
E
ezkl2230
Guest
Gotta love the stance of the attorney representing her:
One of her co-workers noticed her carrying concealed (printing/accidental exposure?) and reported her to the company. The attorney is willing to push the envelope on this one, and I say, Good on ya!
And yeah, I know, the articles had a quote from a law school professor with a dissenting opinion, but we've heard it all before.
Link Removed
Link Removed
One of her co-workers noticed her carrying concealed (printing/accidental exposure?) and reported her to the company. The attorney is willing to push the envelope on this one, and I say, Good on ya!
And yeah, I know, the articles had a quote from a law school professor with a dissenting opinion, but we've heard it all before.
Link Removed
Link Removed
BC1
,
Her lawsuit is going nowhere.
.
First, she has no right to the job under FL law. Florida employment law is based on the general rule that any employee may be discharged by the employer, or may leave the job, for any reason whatsoever, or for no reason. In other words, an employer in Florida may hire and fire any employee at any time for any reason. It doesn’t matter if there is no reason, a bad reason, a good reason, or just the result of a whimsical decision. Likewise, the employee is free to quit a job at any time without any reason and without any notice. THERE DOES NOT HAVE TO BE ANY REASON FOR FIRING OR FOR QUITTING. This is referred to in the law as the “Employment at Will” doctrine. You can find this in numerous places on the web.
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Second. The company had a policy against carrying a weapon. She violated the company policy. She knew about the policy and accepted the job anyway. Wells Fargo told the Tribune that they have a strict policy forbidding firearms. “Team members are strictly prohibited from possession of firearms and weapons on company premises,” spokeswoman Kathy Harrison reportedly said. her claim that she was worried about robberies is hollow. If she's so worried about robberies why does she work in banking?
.
Her lawyers argument is lame; that the bank is violating her constitutional rights and that she's been discriminated upon. The bank being a privately owned entity is not under any obligation to the second amendment. The U.S. Constitution defines governmental powers and the amendments thereto (1st 10 being the bill of rights) limit that power. Period. it doesn't apply to me, you or any other entity. And discrimination is a hollow argument because it doesn't fit into civil rights law. Gun owners aren't a protected group under civil rights law therefor thy can be discriminated against.
.
First, she has no right to the job under FL law. Florida employment law is based on the general rule that any employee may be discharged by the employer, or may leave the job, for any reason whatsoever, or for no reason. In other words, an employer in Florida may hire and fire any employee at any time for any reason. It doesn’t matter if there is no reason, a bad reason, a good reason, or just the result of a whimsical decision. Likewise, the employee is free to quit a job at any time without any reason and without any notice. THERE DOES NOT HAVE TO BE ANY REASON FOR FIRING OR FOR QUITTING. This is referred to in the law as the “Employment at Will” doctrine. You can find this in numerous places on the web.
.
Second. The company had a policy against carrying a weapon. She violated the company policy. She knew about the policy and accepted the job anyway. Wells Fargo told the Tribune that they have a strict policy forbidding firearms. “Team members are strictly prohibited from possession of firearms and weapons on company premises,” spokeswoman Kathy Harrison reportedly said. her claim that she was worried about robberies is hollow. If she's so worried about robberies why does she work in banking?
.
Her lawyers argument is lame; that the bank is violating her constitutional rights and that she's been discriminated upon. The bank being a privately owned entity is not under any obligation to the second amendment. The U.S. Constitution defines governmental powers and the amendments thereto (1st 10 being the bill of rights) limit that power. Period. it doesn't apply to me, you or any other entity. And discrimination is a hollow argument because it doesn't fit into civil rights law. Gun owners aren't a protected group under civil rights law therefor thy can be discriminated against.
telpinaro
New member
Likely. However, nice to see someone trying, no matter the reason. Though I'm more for showing it's ridiculous to not allow employees to protect themselves rather than imposing more government regulations on private anythings. I mean, who hasn't seen a bank robbery in the movies? :biggrin:
MGB Driver
New member
Let's level the playing field here. While I strongly endorse our right to carry concealed, I also strongly endorse a business' right to set the rules for what goes on within it's establishment. We surely don't want the government taking away that right either. The "Employment at Will" law has already been stated above, and with it goes what's becoming an outdated idea I also strongly believe in, and that's "personal responsibility".
On another note this was local to me and someone needs to reinforce some firearm safety with her. She was interviewed on the news and they asked to see her weapon. She pulls it out, tells them it is loaded and swept everyone in the room INCLUDING herself smh. I could hardly listen to the story I was so appalled though she did keep her finger off the trigger. Wfla nbc Tampa look it up.
Rocketgeezer
New member
Well, as I have said several times concealed meens concealed, especialy if there's this sort of thing at stake, and as always loose lips sink ships, ...........just about every major employer has a handbook, and 99% of the time they do not allow weapons, weather or not these rules are enforced is another matter, but a bank is definatly going to enforce them, as much as I'm for handgun carry, where ever the carrier wishes, I don't think her or the lawyer have a legal leg to stand on
Stengun
New member
Howdy,
As numerous people have posted, she broke her employer's rules and got fired.
Pretty simple.
Most employers have a handbook or a set of rules like the ones at the place I work called the "Reasonable Rules of Conduct". In these rules it clearly states that I can NOT have any type of weapon at work. PERIOD.
Arkansas state law says that if I have a CCW permit that I can have a loaded handgun in my vehicle in the employee parking lot while at work an my employer has ZERO say so over the matter.
If your state doesn't have this law you need to start making phone calls, writing letters, e-mail, tweets, Facebook, whatever it takes.
Paul
As numerous people have posted, she broke her employer's rules and got fired.
Pretty simple.
Most employers have a handbook or a set of rules like the ones at the place I work called the "Reasonable Rules of Conduct". In these rules it clearly states that I can NOT have any type of weapon at work. PERIOD.
Arkansas state law says that if I have a CCW permit that I can have a loaded handgun in my vehicle in the employee parking lot while at work an my employer has ZERO say so over the matter.
If your state doesn't have this law you need to start making phone calls, writing letters, e-mail, tweets, Facebook, whatever it takes.
Paul
BluesStringer
Les Brers
I searched on her name and every word or phrase having to do with the story I could think of and found no video at all. Found a print-story about it, but not a video of a news broadcast. I would be interested in seeing it if you know of another place to look for it, or can provide a link to what you're referencing.
As to your follow-up post, that could not happen because of a firearm being in the car of an employee here in Alabama. A new law that went into effect just last year prohibits businesses from imposing disciplinary actions or termination on anyone for leaving their guns in their cars during their work-hours. Property rights vs. gun rights arguments aside, I am personally glad they saw fit to change that law to gun-owners' benefit. Perhaps Floridians should start working on their legislature to do the same thing, and this woman wouldn't have been fired. When I first read the thread, I was under the impression that she had it concealed inside the bank. Inside her car is a very different thing. No-guns-policies in the car effectively disarms people on their way to and from work, and a suit may go forward to settle the conflict between two entities' rights in that case. I personally lean towards the notion that property rights overrule CC'ers' rights in such circumstances, but that's not the way our legislature saw it, and that ain't the way it is here anymore.
Blues
Blues, I will try and find a link for you. She had carried it in on occaision but when they came after her I beleive it was in the car. Fl is one of those states where if it is legal for a customer an employee may have it locked in their personal car.
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BC1
,
She admitted to carrying it in the office. The co-worker saw it in the office.
.
From the Tampa Tribune... "Ros said she sometimes left the handgun in her locked vehicle. Other times, though, she carried it into work concealed under her clothes or in her purse. She never openly displayed the gun, she said. Last year, someone noticed she had a gun in the bank and reported her to bank officials. Corporate security investigated, and she was fired for violating the bank’s ban on employees carrying weapons into the building."
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She should be fired. Why? Because you don't come to work for me, agree to the policies and then flagrantly violate them. If you had a problem with them you shouldn't accept a job offer. End of story.
BC1
,
If the lawsuit is frivolous she should be fined for "trying." Her lawyer knows better than to do this. If I were the judge I would dismiss the suit with prejudice and assign the defense costs to her.
Bob_M
New member
Here it is...............Still no video though.....
Gun-toting bank manager fired from Oldsmar bank
TAMPA --*
Single mother Ivette Ros doesn’t go anywhere without her gun.
But the 37 year-old lost her job as a bank manager for bringing her gun to work at a Wells Fargo branch in Oldsmar.
“When we take our course for concealed weapons licenses, they do state the bank is a place we can take your weapon to, so I never thought otherwise until I was being questioned,” she said.
Ros doesn’t know who found out she was packing or how they found out, but she says bank security questioned her about the gun she was carrying. She says she was fired three days later.
Now she and her lawyer have filed a lawsuit seeking damages.
"What she did was within her constitutional rights," Second Amendment attorney Noel Flasterstein said. "What they did was a violation of Florida statute. Hence we have the suit, hence we’ll move forward."
While Wells Fargo wouldn’t comment specifically on Ros' case, spokeswoman Kathy Harrison released a written statement:
"We have a policy regarding firearms which is that employees are strictly prohibited from possessing firearms and weapons on company premises. However, Wells Fargo recognizes applicable state laws regarding guns in employer parking lots.”
That law, the Preservation and Protection of the Right to Keep and Bear Arms in Motor Vehicles Act of 2008, allows Ros to keep her gun locked and concealed in her car. But her lawyer argues parts of that statute apply to her case.
One section reads, “No public or private employer may terminate the employment of or otherwise discriminate against an employee, or expel a customer or invitee for exercising his or her constitutional right to keep and bear arms or for exercising the right of self-defense as long as a firearm is never exhibited on company property for any reason other than lawful defensive purposes.”
Flasterstein says that’s what happened to his client, and he believes he’ll win this case.
But Alva Cross, an attorney who specializes in representing employers, says it’s not that simple.
"At the end of the day, just because you have a concealed weapons permit, it doesn’t give you an absolute right to bring to a firearm into the workplace,” she said.
Cross says the statute Ros’ lawyer points to pertains only to guns in an employee’s parked car. She says Wells Fargo was well within its right to keep workers from carrying guns on the job.
Still, Ros believes her Second Amendment rights should trump a bank’s employee handbook. Ros says she brought her gun into the bank she managed because she felt she had no protection against robbers.
"I understand some people don’t feel comfortable with weapons. I respect that. But I do, so why undermine my feelings and how I feel?” Ros said.
Ros vows to keep speaking out in the issue until lawmakers make a change. She says she wants an apology from her former employer, and compensation for emotional and monetary damages.
Gun-toting bank manager fired from Oldsmar bank
TAMPA --*
Single mother Ivette Ros doesn’t go anywhere without her gun.
But the 37 year-old lost her job as a bank manager for bringing her gun to work at a Wells Fargo branch in Oldsmar.
“When we take our course for concealed weapons licenses, they do state the bank is a place we can take your weapon to, so I never thought otherwise until I was being questioned,” she said.
Ros doesn’t know who found out she was packing or how they found out, but she says bank security questioned her about the gun she was carrying. She says she was fired three days later.
Now she and her lawyer have filed a lawsuit seeking damages.
"What she did was within her constitutional rights," Second Amendment attorney Noel Flasterstein said. "What they did was a violation of Florida statute. Hence we have the suit, hence we’ll move forward."
While Wells Fargo wouldn’t comment specifically on Ros' case, spokeswoman Kathy Harrison released a written statement:
"We have a policy regarding firearms which is that employees are strictly prohibited from possessing firearms and weapons on company premises. However, Wells Fargo recognizes applicable state laws regarding guns in employer parking lots.”
That law, the Preservation and Protection of the Right to Keep and Bear Arms in Motor Vehicles Act of 2008, allows Ros to keep her gun locked and concealed in her car. But her lawyer argues parts of that statute apply to her case.
One section reads, “No public or private employer may terminate the employment of or otherwise discriminate against an employee, or expel a customer or invitee for exercising his or her constitutional right to keep and bear arms or for exercising the right of self-defense as long as a firearm is never exhibited on company property for any reason other than lawful defensive purposes.”
Flasterstein says that’s what happened to his client, and he believes he’ll win this case.
But Alva Cross, an attorney who specializes in representing employers, says it’s not that simple.
"At the end of the day, just because you have a concealed weapons permit, it doesn’t give you an absolute right to bring to a firearm into the workplace,” she said.
Cross says the statute Ros’ lawyer points to pertains only to guns in an employee’s parked car. She says Wells Fargo was well within its right to keep workers from carrying guns on the job.
Still, Ros believes her Second Amendment rights should trump a bank’s employee handbook. Ros says she brought her gun into the bank she managed because she felt she had no protection against robbers.
"I understand some people don’t feel comfortable with weapons. I respect that. But I do, so why undermine my feelings and how I feel?” Ros said.
Ros vows to keep speaking out in the issue until lawmakers make a change. She says she wants an apology from her former employer, and compensation for emotional and monetary damages.
SR9
New member
I guess we'll have to wait to see how this plays out. I worked for a large company before I retired, and they would not even allow you to have a gun on their property, and that means in your vehicle on their parking lot/property also. So if your leaving your gun in your car or truck at work better make sure your company policy manual doesn't prohibit it. Not worth getting fired over in these times. Plus if it's on your record, you may not get hired anywhere else.
BluesStringer
Les Brers
OK, so now we know that FL has the same parking lot protections we have, and according to the article Bob M quoted, even more protections are true. To wit:
Assuming that is quoted from the statutes accurately (S&W645? apbvguy?), seems there's only one question left to answer which will probably have to be answered in court, but the question is, did the person who reported it actually see it, thought they saw something that "looked like" a gun, or just saw a print where no part of the gun was showing? The reason I say it will have to be answered in court is because if the statute is quoted accurately, the person making the accusation has to be cross-examined now that it's a (literal) constitutional and discrimination case (according to the terminology of the statute).
I know what your instincts are here BC, but is your evaluation of the frivolity of the case altered in light of the quoted statute?
No problem, thanks for tryin'. May just not be posted yet. I looked on their YouTube channel and they don't post every broadcast, so it may never get posted.
Blues
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