Firearms Transfer Question

[WingRider]

Hi all,

I've been having this discussion with various friends as well as a few gun store / FFLs and cannot get a straight answer. So, I'm looking for opinions. Here's the question:

Fact: I live in Colorado.

Suppose: I want to buy a handgun from a friend who resides in another state. How can we do this legally?

I know I can't go to his/her state and buy it there.

Can he/she bring it to Colorado and sell it to me here?

Must we use an FFL here to facilitate the transfer?

Thank you,

WingRider

 

[apvbguy]

Hi all,

I've been having this discussion with various friends as well as a few gun store / FFLs and cannot get a straight answer. So, I'm looking for opinions. Here's the question:

Fact: I live in Colorado.

Suppose: I want to buy a handgun from a friend who resides in another state. How can we do this legally?

I know I can't go to his/her state and buy it there.

Can he/she bring it to Colorado and sell it to me here?

Must we use an FFL here to facilitate the transfer?

Thank you,

WingRider

you need to have the transaction and shipment done via an FFL

 

[RansomStoddard]

Interstate firearms transfer requires an FFL period.
http://www.atf.gov/files/publications/download/p/atf-p-5300-21.pdf
If your friend is not legally prohibited from transporting the firearm to an FFL in your state, they can bring the firearm to your FFL for legal transfer to you with required 4473.

 

[phrogmedic]

wingrider? you sound like a troll with that question !! sounds more like wingnut

 

[wolf_fire]

Hi all,

I've been having this discussion with various friends as well as a few gun store / FFLs and cannot get a straight answer. So, I'm looking for opinions. Here's the question:

Fact: I live in Colorado.

Suppose: I want to buy a handgun from a friend who resides in another state. How can we do this legally?

I know I can't go to his/her state and buy it there.

Can he/she bring it to Colorado and sell it to me here?

Must we use an FFL here to facilitate the transfer?

Thank you,

WingRider

The Brady Bill has made it illegal to transfer handguns across state lines. You MUST use a FFL dealer to do the transaction. No ifs, ands or buts about it.

 

[jcreek]

Hi all,

I've been having this discussion with various friends as well as a few gun store / FFLs and cannot get a straight answer. So, I'm looking for opinions. Here's the question:

Fact: I live in Colorado.

Suppose: I want to buy a handgun from a friend who resides in another state. How can we do this legally?

I know I can't go to his/her state and buy it there.

Can he/she bring it to Colorado and sell it to me here?

Must we use an FFL here to facilitate the transfer?

Thank you,

WingRider

First of all, unless you're a Justice on the US Supreme Court, there are no opinions when it comes to federal law. There is fact and misinformation. Legal or illegal.

Interstate transfers are based on homes of record for the transaction participants, not physical location of the transaction. If you have drivers' licenses from two different states you MUST involve an FFL. The only thing him bringing it Colorado would do is save the shipping costs.

You know you can't go to his/her state and buy it there? Not true. Under federal law you and go to any state you want and buy a handgun in that state. The caveat is that the seller, whether it be a private party (your friend) or a licensed FFL in that state, MUST ship it to an FFL in your home state.

In an interstate handgun transaction, an FFL is always required in the receiving state but optional in the shipping state (although there are benefits to using an FFL on both ends.)

 

[ezkl2230]

Sending a working firearm through the mail or other delivery service to a private party is strictly prohibited, especially since this is an interstate transfer. If you are shipping a working firearm, then you will have to do a FFL to FFL transfer. You will need to find an FFL in your area, who will need to include a copy of his FFL when he sends the firearm to the FFL on the other end, and before sending it, you will have to find an FFL on the other end and have him fax a copy of HIS FFL to the FFL who is performing the transfer on your behalf. It must be shipped overnight. There is usually a $25 to $50 transfer fee to cover the shipping. Ammo must be shipped as a hazardous material, which can be pricey. This is the federal guidelines:

Firearms
Carrier will transport and deliver firearms as defined by the United States Gun Control Act of 1968, between areas served in the U.S., but only between:

Licensed importers; licensed manufacturers; licensed dealers; licensed collectors; law enforcement agencies of the U.S.or any department or agency thereof; and law enforcement agencies of any state or any department, agency or political subdivisions thereof; or

Where not prohibited by local, state and federal law, from individuals to licensed importers, licensed manufacturers or licensed dealers (and return of same). (this is to facilitate firearms repairs - added)

Carrier cannot ship or deliver firearms C.O.D.

Upon presenting the goods for shipment, the person tendering the shipment to Carrier is required to notify Carrier that the shipment contains a firearm. The outside of the package(s) must not be marked, labeled or otherwise identify that the package(s) contains a firearm.

The shipper and recipient must be of legal age as identified by applicable law.

The shipper and recipient are required to comply with all applicable government regulations and laws, including those pertaining to labeling. The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives can provide assistance.

Carrier will transport small-arms ammunition when packed and labeled in compliance with local, state and federal law, and the Hazardous Materials section of this Service Guide. Ammunition is an explosive and must be shipped separately as hazardous materials. You agree not to ship loaded firearms or firearms with ammunition in the same package.

This complicates things, but that's the way it is.

 

[apvbguy]

this post could be a troll by some anti gunner looking to see if this board/forum would be a source of how to commit a felony, fortunately we all offered the same correct and legal method to transfer a weapon across state lines.
be wary of being baited by the anti gun crown into saying or doing anything that could be construed as being in violation of the law

 

[Andrew49417]

Wow... It is illegal to transfer a gun across state lines? And you need a background check? Someone should tell Dianne Feinstein and her bedfellows. I swear I have heard them say we need a thousand more laws preventing just such an activity.

 

[WingRider]

All,

Thank you for the advice. I have received several different stories from 'experts'. Based on my research and your confirmations, I must include an FFL in my home state to legally facilitate the transfer. The handgun may either be shipped or delivered in person to the FFL.

Are any you aware of legal ramifications of Selling a handgun in a state other than your state of residence? The laws seem mostly focused on the 'Buyer'.

For all you troll hunters, keep hunting. Or at least contribute something useful to the conversation.

Thank you,

WingRider

 

[cawpin]

Sending a working firearm through the mail or other delivery service to a private party is strictly prohibited

True

If you are shipping a working firearm, then you will have to do a FFL to FFL transfer.

Not true. You can, as an unlicensed individual, ship a firearm TO an FFL.
Referense form ATF P 5300.4(PDF Warning) Question (B9) on Page 177

 

[JDScott2]

Sending a working firearm through the mail or other delivery service to a private party is strictly prohibited, especially since this is an interstate transfer. If you are shipping a working firearm, then you will have to do a FFL to FFL transfer. You will need to find an FFL in your area, who will need to include a copy of his FFL when he sends the firearm to the FFL on the other end, and before sending it, you will have to find an FFL on the other end and have him fax a copy of HIS FFL to the FFL who is performing the transfer on your behalf. It must be shipped overnight. There is usually a $25 to $50 transfer fee to cover the shipping. Ammo must be shipped as a hazardous material, which can be pricey. This is the federal guidelines:



This complicates things, but that's the way it is.

Sorry Outlaw, but you are not entirely correct on several points. A working firearm may be shipped to an individual IF it is already their gun, as in having sent it to a manufacturer or gunsmith for repair or customizing and then being returned to the owner. You do not have to have an FFL on both ends of the shipment. A private party may ship a working firearm to any FFL for any legal purpose, such as selling it to a buyer in another state. There are a couple of STATES that require all guns coming into or going out of the State go through an FFL, but that is not Federal Regulation.

There is no Federal Regulation requiring firearms to be shipped Overnight. FedEx and UPS require HANDGUNS be shipped Overnight to pad their profits, but that is their policy, not regulations. The Postal Service does not require Overnight shipments of any firearms. Long guns can go Ground or any other way the person shipping desires via any carrier. The only exception to any of the above is that Handguns being shipped via the Postal Service must go to and from an FFL.

Please refrain from giving advise on such subjects if you do not fully understand the regulations involved. Having been in the firearms business and holding an FFL since 1977, I am appalled at the lack of knowledge of many firearm enthusiasts when it comes to selling, shipping, or receiving firearms.

 

[cawpin]

Please refrain from giving advise on such subjects if you do not fully understand the regulations involved. Having been in the firearms business and holding an FFL since 1977, I am appalled at the lack of knowledge of many firearm enthusiasts when it comes to selling, shipping, or receiving firearms.

Agreed. In this age of instant information, nearly everything can be found very quickly if people would just look. Regarding federal firearms regulations, the ATF's own website has everything you need to know. It may be a little difficult to locate sometimes, but questions like this thread are in the FAQ.

 

[sixguncowboy]

You're getting some good and incorrect info here. The easiest way is for you to go to a local FFL dealer and get a copy of his license and email it to your friend. Then he boxes up the gun with a copy of his drivers license & a note with your name & phone number (so the dealer can call you when it arrives) inside so the receiving dealer on your end can log it into his bound book as the person he received the gun from. Then your friend takes it to FedEx and ships it overnight (their rules, not law) to your FFL. It may be a little cheaper for your friend to take the gun to a local FFL on his end and have him mail it by insured priority mail with delivery confirmation. An FFL can mail a handgun but you or your friend cannot. Private parties can only mail long guns or antique guns made prior to 1898.

There cannot, by law, be any markings on the outside of the package that indicates it contains a gun. IE; if it's going to Joe's Guns & Ammo he would simply address it to JGA Inc..

 

[cawpin]

You're getting some good and incorrect info here.

Is this a preface to your comment? Because you just gave him a bunch of incorrect info.

Then your friend takes it to FedEx and ships it overnight (their rules, not law) to your FFL.

They require only handguns to be shipped overnight, as JDScott2 already stated.

An FFL can mail a handgun but you or your friend cannot. Private parties can only mail long guns or antique guns made prior to 1898.

Again, wrong. I already linked to the ATF document covering this. Anyone can ship any firearm TO an FFL.

There cannot, by law, be any markings on the outside of the package that indicates it contains a gun. IE; if it's going to Joe's Guns & Ammo he would simply address it to JGA Inc..

Again, not quite correct. The carrier cannot REQUIRE you to place, or place on their own, any markings indicating that it contains a firearm. If you write an address indicating such, it is not illegal.

 

[sixguncowboy]

I didn't say it was illegal to address it to Joe's Gun Shop. It is just not wise. Again an unlicensed individual may ship a handgun by common carrier. He may not MAIL a handgun through the United States Postal Service. Usually when someone says "mail" it refers to the US Postal Service. If I say "ship" I'm referring to a common carrier, IE: FedEx UPS (not USPS) or DHL.

From BATF FAQ:

Q: May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by common or contract carrier?
A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by a common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(2)(A), 922(a) (3), 922(a)(5) and 922(e), 27 CFR 478.31 and 478.30]

The op is inquireing about purchasing a handgun not a long gun.

Q: May a nonlicensee ship a firearm through the U.S. Postal Service?

A nonlicensee may not transfer a firearm to a non-licensed resident of another State. A nonlicensee may mail a shotgun or rifle to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. The Postal Service recommends that long guns be sent by registered mail and that no marking of any kind which would indicate the nature of the contents be placed on the outside of any parcel containing firearms. Handguns are not mailable. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun.[18 U.S.C. 1715, 922(a)(3), 922(a)(5) and 922 (a)(2)(A)]

FYI When I say "mail" I mean through the USPS not UPS. If I use the word "ship" I'm referring to a common carrier IE; UPS or FedEx.

 

[GB-Boater]

How do you come up with these "DUMB", and I mean really "dumbass" questions.

 

[Nightmare45]

Not a member of your family, FFL required.