Firearm Safety/Accident

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sandrajp

New member
Hello all...

I want to first start by saying I have passed my NRA exam and have been around firearms my entire life. My father is a life time member of the NRA showed taught me how to safely handle a firearm from a young age. I am his only child that has taken an interest in learning how be a responsible gun owner. That being said I have a loaded question for all of you...

Someone very close to me was killed while handling a hand gun. He was away on a "guys" weekend and after drinking one of the guys took out two hand guns. My friend, drunk and not familiar with guys started to fool around and a long story short he shot and killed himself. In your opinion should the man who brought the guns out (also drunk) should still have his license to carry? The family is not looking to have crimial charges brought agaist him, they just think he should no longer have the privilege to carry a firearm.
 
IMO - A license to carry concealed doesn't automatically guarantee a level of intelligence for the person that holds it. You would hope that someone who is familiar with firearms would be intelligent enough to know to 1) not handle them while intoxicated, 2) not allow someone else who is intoxicated to handle them and 3) not allow someone who is not familiar with firearms to handle one that is loaded. At a minimum, the person should/could be held criminally negligent and at least a wrongful death suit would be in order. As far as loosing his license...not sure. If the state or issuing authority has laws that govern that the license be pulled for stupidity yes. If not, then no. If the person holding the license is convicted of law violation where a firearm or violence was involved (like this situation) then I would suspect that the state/authority would then pull it and it would be warranted.
 
I Don't trust most sober people with firearms... Alcohol and firearms=Completely irresponsible. I'm sorry about your friend.

To answer your question. From what you are telling me, IN MY OPINION, Yes, some kind of punishment should come from this. I wasn't there and I don't know the guy but if he drinks regularly and lets non experienced people handle loaded firearms in such a way, maybe all of his guns should be taken away... I have heard too many stories now about people leaving loaded guns in their car so their kids can grab it and kill themselves. That's just terrible. NO reason anyone needs to die because of an irresponsible gun owner.
 
What's a troll?

Thank you for you responses! I just want to help my friends wife and three kids get some closure and maybe a little bit of justice.
 
sandrajp said:
What's a troll?

Thank you for you responses! I just want to help my friends wife and three kids get some closure and maybe a little bit of justice.
Click to expand...

You didn't even tell us what state this happened in to be able to comment on the applicable laws, or are you asking us to make a 100% moral opinion not based in law?

There were two drunks handling the guns and each was equally responsible. Let's look at this another way.... a bar tender who serves a person alcohol, then the person drives drunk and kills someone or themselves, should the bartender be responsible for that and lose their license to serve alcohol? How about the bystanders who watch the drunk go out to his car and drive away and do nothing except maybe call 911? Should they be held responsible when the drunk driver kills someone? Does culpability change if you give the drunk the keys to the car or if you just don't take any action to stop them?

I would say a fair compromise would be to suspend the subject's permit until they obtain considerable firearms safety training.

BTW: there was no accident involved. Only negligence. Equal negligence on the part of the person who shot himself, I doubt anyone forced the gun into his hands, I would imagine it was offered and he accepted it voluntarily.
 
There was a NAVY SEAL who shot himself in the head after drinking. He was at home with a woman and had just met her at a bar. I guess the rule here is do not handle weapons if you are drinking.
 
Welcome to the forum first of all.

Second, Sorry for the loss.

third, You need to provide a bit more information, it is all over the place.


a CCW, CHP, CWP permit (or whatever you want to call it in your state)...is not a badge of intelligence...Never handle firearms when under the influence of alcohol or drugs (legal or ilegal).


So from what I can read your friends friend was drinking and was carrying a firearm (or two from your story) in Texas that is grounds for permit revocation, since there is no legal limit of intoxication in Texas for a Conceal Handgun holder, what that means if they can smell it on you, then your gun and permit go bye bye.

on the matter or handling a firearm or letting someone handle your firearm..while both being under the influence (or not) is irresponsable...so, is the owner liable for the death, well he did not pull the trigger,but he did not unload the gun (due to the alcohol..maybe, maybe not, we do not know).


I would say. Give us more information, but with the minimal information I had. That is what I can tell you. Now the best recommendation I can give you is for the family to get legal counsel if they want to follow with this, not get information from the forum, or an officer, or anyone else...lawyers do this every day, then know better and can assist you in a much better way than here.

hope it helps.
 
Whether the OP is a troll or not, his question is based on a plausible scenario.

A drunk passing around loaded guns to other drunks is clearly a recipe for disaster, but I do not know if it is prosecutable as criminal behavior.

If it is not a criminal matter, the likely civil suit may bring his stupidity into focus for him.
 
I have been around guns all of my life and have sold them for a living. I think the main point of your question and the answer is the same; responsible. The late great Jeff Cooper said it best, "there are no accidental discharges, just acts of negligence." This is a key concept that I taught and teach my children and anybody else interested in guns, including those that have been around guns 'all of their lives.'
Though you didn't say, it is obvious the owner of the guns was irresponsible, tragically and fatally. He IS partly responsible for his friends death because he didn't practice basic safety. His friend is partly responsible for his own death because he CHOSE to handle the guns.
Should the owner of the guns be disallowed to own and carry guns? Yes.
 
This thread brings up an interesting side point.

A lot of times on this forum, people say guns are tools, and should be treated as such. People shouldn't be afraid of them, we should be able to open carry, regulations should be relaxed. But in this case, and in others, when the discussion turns to drinking, suddenly a gun is a deadly weapon, and often equated with vehicles and drinking and driving.

So which is it? Because I'd let someone use a screwdriver while drinking....
 
localgirl said:
This thread brings up an interesting side point.

A lot of times on this forum, people say guns are tools, and should be treated as such. People shouldn't be afraid of them, we should be able to open carry, regulations should be relaxed. But in this case, and in others, when the discussion turns to drinking, suddenly a gun is a deadly weapon, and often equated with vehicles and drinking and driving.

So which is it? Because I'd let someone use a screwdriver while drinking....
Click to expand...

Oh boy, opening that can of worms again! Here we go, get the popcorn ready. This is my view. Treat firearms and drinking exactly like drinking and driving. Make the negligent ACTION illegal, not the mere possession of an object.

Is it illegal to have cars keys in your pocket in a bar, while drinking or even while intoxicated? NO. Is it illegal to drive yourself to the bar and park your car in the parking lot and go into the bar and get drunk? NO. Is it illegal to OPERATE the vehicle, in public, while under the influence? YES.

So why can't it be exactly the same with the gun? How many people every day don't have enough self-control to not leave the keys in their pockets and not drive after they had too much too drink. And yet is there ANY talk, any talk at all about making it illegal to possess car keys in a bar, while drinking, or when intoxicated? Why not?!? Some people can't control themselves enough after drinking to leave the keys in their pockets, so should we make it illegal to possess the car keys? Why is the gun different?

Make it illegal to discharge a firearm under the influence, with an exception for self defense. Make it like drinking and driving laws....something like .02 to .08 is negligent discharge of a firearm while under the influence, .08 and above is negligent discharge of a firearm while intoxicated.

In Washington state there are no laws against drinking and carrying. Firearms are prohibited in places restricted to >21 years of age due to alcohol and that's it (which is too much, in my opinion). But there are no laws against carrying in other places that serve alcohol, no law against consuming alcohol and carrying, and not even a law against carrying while intoxicated. Yet there is no blood to mop up in the streets because of our lack of laws. Seems like our negligent discharge laws are enough.

That's just my opinion, many, many others will soon come along and express dissention.
 
This truly is a sad case, I am sorry for your loss. You stated that the family of the deceased does not wish criminal charges to be brought. Unfortunately that may be the only method to obtain the justice they seek. Without divulging the State where the incident occured, it is impossible to discuss with any detail. However, many states have statutes forbiding the posession of firearms while intoxicated. In many cases it is considered to be a felony. Conviction under such a statute would result in loss of all firearm priveledges for the person in question.
 
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