Finding a way to make this work.

[Mwhite732]

Good evening,

I've recently enrolled in an instructors course in Minnesota on the 16th of this month. I'm the Training NCO for a Marine Corps unit in Minneapolis and i was hoping to do it as a way to raise money for our birthday ball each year. In recent discussion with my 1stSgt, he is uncertain about the usage of military rounds and ranges provided by our unit as a legal option for the course. Creating a very difficult situation for me. We have a lot of Marines and i know many of them would love to take this course but ease of access is a must. I've considered flying out to Utah but that is really not an option for me at this time. I know all the Marines here know how to shoot a pistol well and most have qualified on our range. Is there anyway i could use there pistol qualifications as a waiver specially for the rounds down range portion of the course? I have not been able to locate any information on this through the internet. Though i have not contacted the sheriffs office on the subject yet. Is there a specific entity that would be a proper place to ask for this information or is it written in stone as a no go? At this time, I cannot think of any alternative's. Any information will help.

Thank you for your time.

 

[AZSATT]

First, thanks for your service.

I definitely don't think it's a set-in-stone No-Go, but I'm not familiar with the MN laws and regulations on this matter. I know there are states that either have no shooting portion/exam, or they would waive the shooting portion based on your USMC training.

Too bad you guys weren't in Arizona... I'd train you for free just out of appreciation for your service.

 

[Mwhite732]

Too bad indeed, i appreciate the gesture all the same sir! Thank you for your response. Ill identify that as a good thing being i'm hopeful this is not unheard of. I will be calling the sheriff's tomorrow morning to give them my best in persuasiveness. But being as it's state law, i'm uncertain they will hold the final word. My results will definitely be posted.

 

[JimPage]

I have no idea what MN law is. I know in several states a DD214 for retired/separated military is sufficient for the training requirement. Personally, I don't like that waiver because I have found (in my 20 yrs of service) military training has not been as strong on safety as the Basic Pistol NRA course. Having said that, I find that a one hour course will bring a military experienced person up to speed. From then it is just repetition and practice. I know many military are downright dangerous on the unsupervised range.

 

[grizzerr]

Here you go....
Requirements for CCW applicant
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624.714 Subd. 2a.Training in the safe use of a pistol. (a) An applicant must present evidence that the applicant received training in the safe use of a pistol within one year of the date of an original or renewal application. Training may be demonstrated by:
(1) employment as a peace officer in the state of Minnesota within the past year; or
(2) completion of a firearms safety or training course providing basic training in the safe use of a pistol and conducted by a certified instructor.
(b) Basic training must include:
(1) instruction in the fundamentals of pistol use;
(2) successful completion of an actual shooting qualification exercise; and
(3) instruction in the fundamental legal aspects of pistol possession, carry, and use, including self-defense and the restrictions on the use of deadly force.
(c) The certified instructor must issue a certificate to a person who has completed a firearms safety or training course described in paragraph (b). The certificate must be signed by the instructor and attest that the person attended and completed the course.
(d) A person qualifies as a certified instructor if the person is certified as a firearms instructor within the past five years by an organization or government entity that has been approved by the Department of Public Safety in accordance with the department's standards.

Requirements for MN CCW Instructor
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Minn. Stat. § 624.714, subd. 2a(d) provides that a person qualifies as a certified instructor if the person is certified as a firearms instructor within the past five (5) years by an organization or government entity that has been approved by the Department of Public Safety in accordance with the department's standards.

Organization Certification Requirements

To qualify for Department of Public Safety approval as an organization authorized to certify instructors, the organization or government entity must meet and maintain the following requirements:

1. Register the business organization with the Minnesota Secretary of State's Office and provide a stamped copy of proof of filing to MN Dept. of Public Safety (Government entities excluded),

2. Maintain instructor records adequate to verify training;

3. Maintain proficiency of instruction (including legal updates) and ensure the instructional practices and integrity of instructors;

4. Provide the curriculum used to train instructors that demonstrates that the certified instructors will be able to teach the basic training requirements for applicants for permits to carry required by Minn. Stat. § 624.714, subd. a;

5. Organizations must be approved by the Department of Public Safety every five (5) years.


Instructor Certification Requirements

Approved organizations and government entities may grant instructor certificates to individuals who have been certified within the last five (5) years in accordance with the Department of Public Safety's standards and have received training in a course or courses, that at a minimum contained:

1. Instruction in the fundamentals of pistol use including mechanical knowledge of handguns, and safe practices in shooting, loading, unloading, clearing firearm malfunctions, safe storage and firearm care;

2. Successful completion of an actual shooting qualification exercise and the ability to evaluate shooting proficiency and safe weapon skills of students in a practical firearm shooting exercise;

3. Instruction in the legal aspects of pistol possession, carry, and use, including self-defense and the restrictions on the use of deadly force. This should also include the psychological and physiological effects of a violent threat encounter and simple weapon retention techniques;

4. Instruction on how to maintain records of students seeking a permit to carry a firearm. Letter from employer verifying employment status.

 

[Mwhite732]

This information is outstanding, thank you all for your help with this subject. I am still not completely 100% on the subject but my search will continue. I regret that i haven't had time to consult the sheriff's. I will continue to monitor this thread and when i contact them i will share my results. You guy's are great, please let me know if anything else comes up!

 

[Pollux053]

Hey man I got some experience in this, when I was WTBN @ quantico. Our battalion paid for the whole company to get pistol and rifle and NRA instructor certified, seeing as we were instructors anyway it was good to have. If your unit his access to a range and can request ammo, they won't care what you do as long as it's nothing crazy obviously.

 

[whodat2710]

All these guys are giving you great stuff, but I think you are looking more for a military answer rather than a state answer. In the Coast Guard we have very few Bases, and even fewer ranges. This means that we use other bases, public commercial ranges or even police and prison ranges. No matter what we shoot our course of fire and use our rounds. Your question about using military rounds would have to revolve around training or qualification for your troops. Look at your manuals (ours are probably different) and see what the specific requirements are for qualification and/or recertification. If it mandates specific courses of fire, specific numbers of rounds per soldier, specific targets for each specific course of fire etc. these are your guidelines. If the military qualification requirements and the course requirements are not compatible that might negate using your unit ammo.

If it is to be a fundraiser, treat it as such. Get a deal on bulk ammo, find a military friendly range that might donate range time. See if someone will donate something to raffle off. Make anything you charge the troops based on rank (a Gunny would pay more than a Lance Corporal). Be creative and have fun!