Fighting Misinformation

[Deserteagle]

It really startles me how much false information regarding gun laws is posted online. Maybe its just me, but it seems like the only way to carry and be assured that you are following the laws is to research the laws yourself by going to your state's website and reading them.

Tonight, I visited a popular site for Colorado gun owners that claims to be active in supporting our rights as well as providing information to gun owners about the laws. Sure enough within a few minutes I found false information posted on the website that is just outright wrong. The website lists a place that is "illegal" to carry and they cite it with a reference to Colorado Revised Statutes. So I go take a look at the laws on the books and sure enough, the website is completely wrong. But unless you verified it yourself, you would believe the website's false information. It just makes me wonder how many people read that and went around spreading that rumor and false information.
A visit to another Colorado gun forum turned up similar results. People start quoting laws that dont exist, telling others what is legal/illegal and seemingly turning their rumors into factual gun laws.

I know Im preaching to the choir for many here (NavyLCDR), but to those of you who have never read your state's gun laws, I suggest doing so instead of assuming the information you found on a random website has told you accurate info about your carry limitations and rights. Unless you read the law yourself, take everything everyone says regarding the law with a grain of salt. USACarry has good info dont get me wrong. But there are so many gun laws with serious penalties if not followed that it would be ludicrous to not take a look at the actual laws yourself before carrying your loaded firearm.

 

[S&W645]

It really startles me how much false information regarding gun laws is posted online. Maybe its just me, but it seems like the only way to carry and be assured that you are following the laws is to research the laws yourself by going to your state's website and reading them.
Tonight, I visited a popular site for Colorado gun owners that claims to be active in supporting our rights as well as providing information to gun owners about the laws. Sure enough within a few minutes I found false information posted on the website that is just outright wrong. The website lists a place that is "illegal" to carry and they cite it with a reference to Colorado Revised Statutes. So I go take a look at the laws on the books and sure enough, the website is completely wrong. But unless you verified it yourself, you would believe the website's false information. It just makes me wonder how many people read that and went around spreading that rumor and false information.
A visit to another Colorado gun forum turned up similar results. People start quoting laws that dont exist, telling others what is legal/illegal and seemingly turning their rumors into factual gun laws.

I know Im preaching to the choir for many here (NavyLCDR), but to those of you who have never read your state's gun laws, I suggest doing so instead of assuming the information you found on a random website has told you accurate info about your carry limitations and rights. USACarry has good info dont get me wrong. But there are so many gun laws with serious penalties if not followed that it would be ludicrous to not take a look at the actual laws yourself before carrying your loaded firearm.

I've not only read Florida's but have written to our Reps about them. And am always referring to the book, Florida Firearms Law, Use & Ownership.

 

[Deserteagle]

I've not only read Florida's but have written to our Reps about them. And am always referring to the book, Florida Firearms Law, Use & Ownership.

You my friend, are a responsible gun owner. I just worry about how many people believe what others tell them regarding gun laws. I could say something ridiculous like its illegal to carry a gun in a shoulder holster and I guarantee somebody out there will believe it instead of research it themselves! Not good for us gun owners as a whole.

 

[Lowjiber]

After 37 years working for the Dept of Defense, I learned one thing...

"Believe nothing you hear and only half of what you see."

 

[kelcarry]

I think Low summed it up well. Hey even your momma lied to you "for your own good".

 

[kelcarry]

It truly is amazing. The ink is not dry on my previous reply and I go to the next thread "Hornady" and how does it begin you ask? "a guy in Dicks Sporting Goods told him that a detective told him that Hornady Critical Defense can be construed as "overkill". Missinformation to the 2nd degree--amazing. Information of this forum is interesting and informative as long as you know what to do with it and use your own smarts and due diligence--if you don't you may be in for some big surprises considering that we are talking about forum subjects that basically come down to lethality in some form or another.

 

[TXCHLInstructor]

In my role as a Concealed Handgun License instructor I've had folks sit in class, listen to the law I've just displayed to them, and discussed and then ask me a question that they, themselves, have "assumed" to be true. When I point to the law and tell them that what they say was never indicated in the law they realize that far too many people don't read and comprehend; they read and "read into" what they believe. Also, the laws of the various states point out what is legal, not what a person "should" do based on their own beliefs or morals. It also doesn't point out what a jury's beliefs and morals are. This, I believe, helps in changing what people believe to be the exact law. I agree with your aessment that people should study the laws for their own good, but they need to NOT add their own beliefs in that law ... that's why we refer to "The letter of the law." But our educational system today wishes to have students talk about how that law makes them feel rather than what was read. Just my two cents...

 

[Hoganbeg]

Yes, I agree, and have posted to that point a number of times both here and elsewhere. It never ceases to amaze me how many people will accept advice from a nameless, faceless person online rather than going to the source for readily accessible information. The internet gives us a wonderful tool for spreading truth and ideas. Unfortunately, it is just as easy to spread lies and misunderstanding. Bottom line is, if you look it up yourself, and understand it, then you know what the law actually is and can make properly informed decisions.

 

[FN1910]

I had a discussion yesterday with a co-worker about how people hear what you say which falls right in line with what the OP is saying. People have a very hard time in separating fact from opinion and laws from rumor. In the "overkill" comment above this is quite possible that a lawyer in a trial could argue that using certain type ammo but there is nothing in the law that says anything about it. So the statement was not totally false but was taken out of context and completely misunderstood as being fact vs. opinion or rumor.

As for the saying about "Believe nothing you hear and only half of what you see" I find that people will only hear part of what you say and then believe that part. I see it all the time when someone comes back from their CCW/CWP training classes telling what the instructor said. I have done a lot of training both formal training and informal and find that sometimes you need to ignore certain things. An example is that if you give driving directions to some place and tell someone that when you get to a certain intersection turn left, DO NOT TURN RIGHT, and later get them to repeat the directions as many as 50%, usually the same 50% will say the you told them to turn right at that intersection. One reason is that you emphasized the turn right and they heard that but not the DO NOT. The same way in a lot of CCW/CWP classes that the students only heard part of the answer.

Then there is the part of being able to understand what you are reading. Even if a person reads the law straight from the code book it still is not a sure thing that they will understand it. Ever notice how many different interpretations of 2A there are? All we can do is try to know the laws ourselves, try to separate fact from opinion or rumor and be sure that when we post advice that we are sure of what we post and state whether or not it is opinion or fact.

 

[S&W645]

Yes, I agree, and have posted to that point a number of times both here and elsewhere. It never ceases to amaze me how many people will accept advice from a nameless, faceless person online rather than going to the source for readily accessible information. The internet gives us a wonderful tool for spreading truth and ideas. Unfortunately, it is just as easy to spread lies and misunderstanding. Bottom line is, if you look it up yourself, and understand it, then you know what the law actually is and can make properly informed decisions.

The bad part is the laws are written in both legalese and gov't double speak. The gov't can interpret a law one way while it actually might say something else. Like the current thread on the military spending bill. A " is not required to " is not the same as " can't " or " won't ".

 

[Deserteagle]

Many laws definitely are written in confusing language. However, with the resources available to us these days, the responsible decision is to seek help understanding the laws rather than go off word of mouth about what is legal or illegal.

Update:
I contacted a website I originally posted about and they said they will check into the misinformation after I showed them where they are wrong in the laws.
The startling part in the email is that they said they get "most" of their information from members, not from attorneys or from reading the law themselves before posting it. So some random person misinterpreted the law and it got posted online and God only knows how many people are spreading that misinformation.

 

[agrippakc]

I work in the kansas state house of representatives and I have to deal with misinformation like crazy. People write in letters as askng what kansas is.going to do to defend israel, what kansas is going to do to save public broadcasting (federal issue), and people wanting to confirm that there are all kinds of crazy bills floating around the state congress. Mass-misinformation is a symptom of a mentally challenged society, a society that is in posession of little to no critical thinking skills, they can read for the.most.part but are unable to comprehend the information they see which means they might as well be illiterate, they rationalize by useing "logic" and "arguements" that leap around and are based on conjecture and assumtions. Then the web sites on the all might google on the internet machine coyldnt possibly lie to them, they spend their days citing wikipedia (which is frowned upon as a source for good information) and spreading the filth until it becomes true. Thats what I deal with.

 

[Deserteagle]

I work in the kansas state house of representatives and I have to deal with misinformation like crazy. People write in letters as askng what kansas is.going to do to defend israel, what kansas is going to do to save public broadcasting (federal issue), and people wanting to confirm that there are all kinds of crazy bills floating around the state congress. Mass-misinformation is a symptom of a mentally challenged society, a society that is in posession of little to no critical thinking skills, they can read for the.most.part but are unable to comprehend the information they see which means they might as well be illiterate, they rationalize by useing "logic" and "arguements" that leap around and are based on conjecture and assumtions. Then the web sites on the all might google on the internet machine coyldnt possibly lie to them, they spend their days citing wikipedia (which is frowned upon as a source for good information) and spreading the filth until it becomes true. Thats what I deal with.

Haha another great example... citing wikipedia. My college classes never accepted wikipedia because anybody can post on it or edit it. Yet people read it, believe it, cite it, and spread the info they got from there.

 

[NavyLCDR]

I have nothing to add. Yet.

 

[Treo]

I am amazed every time I log in especially here because handgunlaw.us is right on this site. People are lazy they’d rather just ask some anonymous poster (who isn’t going to be there when the cops challenge your internet law degree) what he/she/they/it thinks

 

[CharlieK]

Many laws definitely are written in confusing language. However, with the resources available to us these days, the responsible decision is to seek help understanding the laws rather than go off word of mouth about what is legal or illegal.

Update:
I contacted a website I originally posted about and they said they will check into the misinformation after I showed them where they are wrong in the laws.
The startling part in the email is that they said they get "most" of their information from members, not from attorneys or from reading the law themselves before posting it. So some random person misinterpreted the law and it got posted online and God only knows how many people are spreading that misinformation.

Startling? Why is that a surprise? It should be expected.

 

[FN1910]

About the time honored advice to ask an attorney that is so often given. That is not bad advice but in no way is it close to perfect or reliable. It may be better than your neighbor but lots of times not much and often worse. Unless you can give and exact situation with all the variables an attorney can't tell you for sure and only then if that is his field of expertise. Then when you find out he was wrong all he has to do is say I'm sorry about that but I will be glad to help you find another lawyer who is more knowledgeable in that field. It is crazy how many people are willing to bet their career or life savings or their life on what some friend or stranger told them without digging a little deeper.

 

[Caribou]

I am not an attorney and I don't play one on TV. However, I do know how to read the law, much to the chagrin of a number of attorneys. When I took my CHL my instructor (a State Trooper) stated some law that I had not read and still can not find. I don't know if I just can't find the law or if my instructor is remembering the law from another State he lived in.
There is no source that is 100% reliable. The expression "trust but verify" comes to mind. I take the information I receive here and use it as a starting point. If it is legal advice I compare that to the Statutes. If it is opinion (I like this gun/that holster) I weigh that against other opinions that I find here and elsewhere before I purchase.

One attorney in a town will starve to death. Meaning, that attorneys make a living by arguing the law. Lower courts are overturned regularly all the way up to the U.S. Supreme Court. The legislature will rewrite the law to invalidate a Supreme Court decision when they disagree with that decision. I would expect (and this is only a guess) that there are more 4-5 decisions by the Supreme Court than there are 9-0. My point is this, get as much info from as many sources as you can then sort out the wheat from the chaff as well as you can. By all means read the law in your State. The people here, for the most part, will give you the best info that they have. If they are wrong, or sometimes if they are right someone else will come forth with a different outlook. It is of little service to be upset with someone with a different or even a wrong piece of information. Remember even the experts do not agree all the time. I have seen some use name calling or try to correct spelling to discredit a posting that they do not agree with. This is not an argument. Disagree with me but give me some data to support your opinion. I am here to learn so, please, teach me.