Family attacked for being "In the wrong neighborhood."

[Austin]

Austin.
Don't really know what your background is since you won't even list you birth year on your profile, I can't tell what kinds of experiences you may be old enough to have had.
But understand this;
You leave work Monday morning and go to the hospital because of recurring heartburn that is exertion originated.
They tell you that you will have to stay overnight and take a stress test first thing Tuesday morning.
Bright and early, 0630 hours Tuesday you are on your way to get a stress test using nuclear dye (x-rays before and after walking on a treadmill) and you do it.
Before you get back to your room there is a squad there to transfer you to different hospital due to the results they really don't tell you.
By 1100 hours you have been transported, been admitted, been submitted to a heart cath where they have implanted a ball pump in your heart in order to get you to surgery to crack your chest open to preform a quadruple by-pass surgery.
Four days later when you start breathing on your own and they are able to remove you from a respirator you wake up and realize you are NOT dead, yet you doctor tells you that they weren't sure that you would come off the table alive.
Six days later when they send you home you are told that it would be better for my chances of survival to be away from the hospital. In other words go home and die in peace.
Complications from surgery paralyzed 60% of the diaphragm reducing my lung capacity to a maximum effective level of 34%.
I was that guy who never had to have a weapon and was willing to walk into anything to help someone and have been hurt doing it.
I hope and pray that you will never have the anxiety and anguish of feeling so helpless in the defense of your family, knowing that any exertion is going to incapacitate you and leave your loved ones unprotected and at the mercy of those bent on doing evil.
When you have experienced this you may criticize how I may go about defending myself, until then you need to learn respect for those who have been there and are living with the reality we have been dealt.
PS during my surgery I crossed over and I know where I am going, do you?

And since you have no idea what type of medical issues i have had or what my life experiences have been maybe you should shut your trap about me giving respect to others, and practice what you preach.

 

[guttercat2000]

So you are standing there holding a smoking gun with a dead guy in the middle of the street unarmed, and your argument here is "he threatened me. he started it, he scared me, im a coward, im too old to fight...."

Who started the fight is irrelevant, this is real life not kindergarten. The witnesses are going to say something like this: there were two guys involved in an altercation and one drew a gun and killed the other one.

20-life is what it sounds like to me.

But, honestly I dont care about you or your family. If you want to go shoot someone in the street because you are too much of a coward to fight with them than you will be the one doing time and not being able to support your family, not me.

Guy, no one brought up old people starting fights, you brought that up all on your own.
I ask why, and you go off on a tangent and call me a coward.
I really hope you do not carry as you seem very emotional and somewhat off kiltter.

 

[Austin]

Again see post 31.

It doesnt matter who feels who started a fight. see post 31
And I would love to see where I called you a coward.

In addition, I would also love to see how you can analize me as off kilter judging off what you read on an internet forum.

I will be back on later to see where you can show me as saying you are a coward. Now, if you feel like a coward by something I have said that you feel referenced you, than that is on you not me. I don't attempt to judge peoples mental capacity or mental handicaps by what I read on an internet forum, unlike you.

So lets see these quotes of me calling you personally a coward.....

 

[guttercat2000]

Again see post 31.

It doesnt matter who feels who started a fight. see post 31
And I would love to see where I called you a coward.

In addition, I would also love to see how you can analize me as off kilter judging off what you read on an internet forum.

I will be back on later to see where you can show me as saying you are a coward. Now, if you feel like a coward by something I have said that you feel referenced you, than that is on you not me. I don't attempt to judge peoples mental capacity or mental handicaps by what I read on an internet forum, unlike you.

So lets see these quotes of me calling you personally a coward.....

"But, honestly I dont care about you or your family. If you want to go shoot someone in the street because you are too much of a coward to fight with them".
"So you are standing there holding a smoking gun with a dead guy in the middle of the street unarmed, and your argument here is "he threatened me. he started it, he scared me, im a coward, im too old to fight...."

I assumed you were referencing me because that is the way it read. If you were not referencing me, it should have been made clear.
So when you say, you do not care about me or my family, you are not referencing me? Hmmm sure sounds like you are.

But you still refuse to admit that the subject of, old people starting fights then killing someone, was only in YOUR mind. You bought it up to engage in a "straw man argument"

 

[tricolordad]

Again see post 31.

It doesnt matter who feels who started a fight. see post 31
And I would love to see where I called you a coward.

In addition, I would also love to see how you can analize me as off kilter judging off what you read on an internet forum.

I will be back on later to see where you can show me as saying you are a coward. Now, if you feel like a coward by something I have said that you feel referenced you, than that is on you not me. I don't attempt to judge peoples mental capacity or mental handicaps by what I read on an internet forum, unlike you.

So lets see these quotes of me calling you personally a coward.....

A younger man attacking the elderly is a felony, just the same as an adult attacking a minor. It's called "disparity of force." That's why women and the elderly are permitted to use deadly force when a guy my age (29) isn't.

But go ahead and sling mud, your posts are devoid of facts.

 

[tricolordad]

I will elaborate further. My grandmother and wife are women, grandma is elderly and in declining health. You break in the house and they encounter you, you raise the crowbar you used to break the lock in a way they perceive as a threat, you're full of holes and die before EMS can get there. Why? Because "disparity of force" says that you can cause immediate deadly harm that they would hypothetically not be able to prevent.

Austin, I used you because you're an internet tough guy. And yes, by placing words in his mouth in an attempt to mock him, you called him a coward.

 

[carracer]

Being old and out of shape is hardly a defense for shooting someone trying to fight you. Now, if there is several of them or weapons involved that is another situation.

Disparity of Force.

 

[Austin]

I had typed an extremely long reply and it didnt post, said I had to refresh and when I did the post went away. So Ill be breif instead.

Do what you do. If you want to shoot people instead of fight them, or use lesser force if possible, thats your perogative and I hope the jury sees it your way.

No I dont care about you, your family, your dogs, your neighbors, or your neighbors dogs for that matter. Just the same I know you dont really care much about me or mine. The world is too big to lose sleep over other peoples problems. I also stated this because I wouldnt be the one having to care for your family if you got locked up because of a bad shoot.

I am not an internet tough guy, If I was i would be saying things detailing what I would do in that scenario. As I am sure you have noticed, I have refrained from that because I was not there and it was not happening to me.

I never intended to imply you were a coward. If i think so or not is irrelevant. I was simply attempting to inject my opinion into a forum.

Do what you do, and I hope you dont find out the hard way that I was right. vaya con dios.

 

[dogshawred]

As far as me not being able to tell you how you feel when you have all these medical issues, you are correct. I have not had them myself. And neither are members of a jury. But if someone threatens you and you shoot them because of it (as another poster has stated he would) I would be hard pressed to believe it as self defense.

As I have posted multiple times now. I will not lose any sleep if you guys go on a shooting spree and take out these gang bangers and such. Actually I might even smile a little bit as the thugs get what they have coming. But calling it justified is a whole nother issue and that is what I am attempting to discuss.

And since you want to bring god into this, what does the bible say about it? Seems to me that it was turn the other cheek and pray for their forgiveness, not to shoot them in the face. And before someone says that they need to obey the law of the land. it is not up to us as CCL holders to enforce the law of the land.

You can continue to repeat yourself for effect yet it is just that and nothing more.
No one is going to shoot someone for threatening them yet you have repeated this again and again.
After being presented with the site of victim armed if they pursue their course of action of attacking they would have accepted the consequences of their actions.
As would we if we stopped said attacker with lethal intent and force. There are a lot of us that understand that consequence and yet when comes to protecting ourselves and our family we will accept the consequences of our action with the knowledge we acted prudently. Even if it was not justifiable in the eyes of the law and we under stand those consequences.
Got it.
Dog

 

[guttercat2000]

"I never intended to imply you were a coward. If i think so or not is irrelevant. I was simply attempting to inject my opinion into a forum. "

Thank you.
I know this is an informal internet discussion and statements can be misinterpreted. I will assume that is the case here.

Also, my "off kilter " remark was uncalled for. I do apologize.

 

[CharlesMorrison]

So I should not be carrying a firearm because I think people should not be shot because the person that they are into an altercation with is: weak, old, spend too much time on the couch, a female, over 35, sick, lacked the forsight to carry pepper spray, etc...

I was just stating that it seemed to be the logic as posted above, that unless you are in perfect health, young, workout 7 days a week, that you dont have to fight anymore and can just claim "disparity of force" and shoot them dead.

My point has been and always will be this:

Sitting on the couch getting fat, being too lazy to work out, being older than your prime, being female, fill in the blank... should not be enough to justify shooting someone that has threatened you for whatever reason. It is irrelevant who you think started the situation. When you are in court for shooting someone dead, I certainly wouldnt want to be the one attempting to use the arguments listed above as justification.

If you need an equalizer against an unarmed assailant use pepper spray, baton, a brick etc... and use the bought time to get outta there. If that does not work, then you can use a firearm and possibly be able to justify that you tried lesser force first. If they are armed then do what you need to do to protect life.

If you quote this to argue with me, please read its entirety before responding.

Oh boy... Your gonna make LOTS of friends here.... I can just see it now!


Sent from behind enemy lines.

 

[jcreek]

Perhaps trolling a little bit. But if this is the logic thats being applied: being too old to fight so i shot them dead and thats ok. I was just expanding on this a bit.

Who said anything about you being the one starting the fight? If you start the fight you're no longer the defender, you're the criminal aggressor.

If somebody walks up to me in a gas station, verbally threatens my life, and there is a disparity of force, you bet your ass I'd draw down on them. Where it goes from there is completely up to him; he can either be a good little scumbag and run away, or he can escalate his aggression and die trying to make good on his threat.

^^ this furthers my argument. So someone walks up to you in public and says they are going to kill you, and they are younger or bigger than you, its ok to kill them? I hardly agree with that statement.

You are a complete troll. You didn't read a thing I said. When you learn you comprehend what you read come back and talk to me. Moron.

 

[timtheref]

I am a soccer referee. Any one following the news probably heard of the recent death of a middle aged soccer referee in good shape after he was punched in the face by a juvenile player. Hands can be deadly weapons. Will be interesting to see if this case helps with legal precedents.

 

[zeebea]

This guy and family are lucky to be alive. If I am confronted while carrying you will not meet a more meek man.