Eye of the Tiger

[JJFlash]

In a reflective mood today and here's today's "reflective mood" topic:

Do you have the "Eye of the Tiger"?

It occurs to me that we communicate a lot of tough talk through this site. I do, too, so I'm not drawing down on any one individual. Hell, we talk about the SHittingTF, societal collapse, survival skills, tactical training, weapons handling, taking down BGs, the list goes on.

But how many of us are truly prepared to do whatever it takes? Go look at the video under LEO Encounters posted by American ME, and then tell me how the outcome would be different for you. Do some soul-searching, here, no keyboard tough guys. I will submit, as I said in that thread, that if you are an untrained CWP holder (and I mean expensive, serious on-going training), you are NOT prepared.

This is all very serious business. Have you ever met any truly BAD guys? The kind whose whole demeanor says they would kill you if they had to. These people are intimidating. If you've never met one, how can you possibly know what you could be up against? What do THEY see when they look at YOU?

Are you willing to die? Really? Well, dying is easy. The more crucial question is: Can you come out on top, whatever the situation? Suppose you drop your piece and the BG is on top of you. Got any empty-hand fighting skills? What about that buck knife in your pocket? Ever been TRAINED to use it? How about empty-hand defense against a knife?

Eye of the Tiger means: You are DEADLY serious and you can take care of business when you need to. Whatever that "business" may be. BGs and sheep should look at you and KNOW that you are a serious, capable individual, from the way you look and carry yourself. Do you project that image? Do you have the Eye of the Tiger?

Where are you at?

Food for thought...

 

[Tucker's Mom]

Well...I haven't met any BG yet, not after being stalked, but that is another story for another day and besides I wasn't living here yet at the time and I wasn't into guns then. I just know what guns looks like. Period. This year is my year to do some courses on Personal Protection for the Home (February) and Personal Protection Outside the Home (March) then perhaps I will be looking into some Tactical course on handgun handling. So yes, I will shoot anyone who will do harm to me and mine -- and I am a woman! I make sure I have a lot of practice down the basement and around the house in case something happens, despite of my dog. My practice may not seem adequate to many here who are more experienced than I am but I do practice twice a week at least. Does that make me capable of killing anyone that will touch my husband's hair in anger? You betcha!
.

 

[JJFlash]

Always enjoy your input TM, but the issue is more than WiLL you (although that's certainly important), but, more significantly, CAN you? Once it hits the fan, what I've been taught is you are, at best, 50% as good as you are on the range. It's one of the reasons, I like professional training where serious, intense instructors are putting you under increasing stress.

Be sure to check out the video in LEO Encounters. It's instructive, to say the least.

 

[BigSlick]

Could you provide a link to the video JJ? Tried to search the forums but came up empty. Would like to see it.

 

[1911 Headbanger]

I survived my years on the street as a LEO and took down many bad guys in many forms and manners. Some were big and tough as nails, others were little guys but with bad attitudes and willing to do anything. I'm still in good enough shape and had enough training to handle most of them, but without the uniform and the threat of authority, some are not as intimidated. I will say this. While things are lawful, I will obey the law and use of force. However, after the SHTF, if anybody comes to me with crime or poor intentions, I'll just shoot the piss out of 'em from then on, with no warning, second thought or remorse. I have seen what the thugs will do on the street with the Law in place. There's no talking with them, negotiating, rationalizing or pleading with them. They only know one thing. Power and brute force. I can only imagine how ruthless and wild they will be with no law. If I see a Thug Monkee even so much as give me a second look in a lawless society, he's gonna get shot. BEFORE he has a chance to get aggressive. Period! I'm not giving him a chance to do anything to me or my family.

Let's face it, when you are fighting in the street, you are fighting for your life. Be mean, ruthless and angry. When they go down, don't stop, get on 'em and stay on 'em until they are disabled enough to prevent them from getting up and comming back at you. One mistake I have seen, is the notion that when you are attacked, you have to fight fair and stop when he goes down. Make sure he's going to STAY DOWN. I saw a guy gassing up his boat and truck early one morning at a convenience store, when a local thug approached the man and began roughing him up trying to rob him. The guy got a couple of punches on the bad guy and he went down. He immediately backed off and the bad guy got up and pulled a pocket knife and stabbed the guy 3 times. Then took his wallet and walked away. He had the bad guy down, but backed off as if he were under the rules in a boxing ring. If he would have stayed on the bad guy and put in a few more good licks and put him out for the count while on the ground, the stabbing part would not have happened. I stood in amazement on the 5th floor of a building calling 911. He had the bad guy down and stopped as if using good manners and obeying rules, and paid for it.

I don't think many people understand this unless you've seen them on the street over a lifetime and see the things that some bad guys do, but I know what they are capable of. Now, remove the Law, the presence of Law Enforcers, add hunger, greed and not knowing what will happen tommorrow, and you have one dangerous animal. I'll shoot first, then think about it.

 

[JJFlash]

Could you provide a link to the video JJ? Tried to search the forums but came up empty. Would like to see it.

the forum: LEO Encounters
the thread: The Real Deal...
the poster: American ME

Be sure to check it out; VERY disturbing, VERY enlightening.

 

[Tucker's Mom]

Always enjoy your input TM, but the issue is more than WiLL you (although that's certainly important), but, more significantly, CAN you? Once it hits the fan, what I've been taught is you are, at best, 50% as good as you are on the range. It's one of the reasons, I like professional training where serious, intense instructors are putting you under increasing stress.

Be sure to check out the video in LEO Encounters. It's instructive, to say the least.

Hmmm...after my ordeal a decade ago when I wasn't into guns yet (long story, will not bore you all with it...) I will say YES! YES! YES! I can shoot anyone who will do me and mine in a heartbeat, especially now that I have the weapon to do it and know the safeties and the rules of engagement should anything happens to SHTF.

.

 

[GLOCK9]

JJFlash. It is Hard not to sound like an Internet Tough Guy when people do not know or can not check credentials. I have been in many small arm fire fights, in combat, on foreign soil. It may surprise you who will and who will not fight.... I mean FIGHT. 1911 Head was a LEO... He can probably explain how a 90lb woman becomes the MOST dangerous person in the room when you are arresting and taking away her 16 year old son.... She Will FIGHT you.

My theory is that people are capable of GREAT Violence...it is Society that dictates what is exceptable behavior. How many boys are punished at a young age in the United States for fighting in schools? Play fighting, even real school scuffles are important learning experiences for young boys to learn to except a punch and still fight. Get Up, Don't quit.
I see the young boys here in Philippines fight..FIGHT each other...it's not always the older tougher kid that wins.. Its the Kid with confidence and "Eye of the Tiger"... He will grow up and be a skilled warrior. MORE important.. Mold the Kid to act for good, and not bad... That is the problem...the Kids growing up in United States that ARE Allowed to fight are Urban Inner City parentless /fatherless thugs... No One is around to set them straight. They grow up with the strong confidence but with a Predator instinct instead of a Noble Posture to others.

I have taken punches to the head/body..I have NOT won every fight I've been in. I've been shot once and shot back several..and slashed/stabbed twice... I've run from gun fire and I've Run towards it... I've shot at and been shot at. It is a mind set... But confidence comes from not only training, but experience... I Have one guy here working for me who claimed the Lotto Motto.."You must be in it to Win it"
One of the Biggest problems I see for Shootings in USA... and Now unfortunately with Soldiers either with US military or Paid forces are LEGAL.... The Poor fighter shoots in defense or for work and then gets charged with a crime... That would make anyone think twice before acting, when you might ONLY have a second to act....
The best training short of actual combat, is people watching. Just WATCH People... head over to some REAL biker Bars... Not the Poser bars. Just watch... they aren't scary people... But REAL Fighters... Visit a prison to work in their study programs.. Volunteer at homeless shelters and soup kitchens, street teen agencies... Does this sound silly?? NO. It gets you comfortable being around these people... these people ALL Have the "Eye of the Tiger"... GUT FIGHTING SKILLS.... Get comfortable around them..so you don't blink... So when you do ever meet their kind in a dark parking lot, you can look back at them...with a comfort level they will feel in their gut... They will SMELL THE CREDIBILITY ON YOU...I BET They Pick an easier target!!!

My Experiences... Captain Extraction Force Philippines.

 

[JJFlash]

1911HB and Glock9 make some great points about violence. While I do not have their military or LEO experience, I have been associated, in the past , with one-percent bikers. True warriors and I don't mean to glamorize the clubs, necessarily. They will fight at the drop of a hat, no hesitation, and fight hard.

I think the SPEED at which things can erupt around you or on top of you is what will surprise the unwary and untrained. Things can go from 0-60 in a heartbeat and if you're not on top of the situation, you're gonna be on the bottom. And that's not a good place to be.

 

[Tucker's Mom]

Off-topic...sorry...

JJFlash. It is Hard not to sound like an Internet Tough Guy when people do not know or can not check credentials. I have been in many small arm fire fights, in combat, on foreign soil. It may surprise you who will and who will not fight.... I mean FIGHT. 1911 Head was a LEO... He can probably explain how a 90lb woman becomes the MOST dangerous person in the room when you are arresting and taking away her 16 year old son.... She Will FIGHT you.

My theory is that people are capable of GREAT Violence...it is Society that dictates what is exceptable behavior. How many boys are punished at a young age in the United States for fighting in schools? Play fighting, even real school scuffles are important learning experiences for young boys to learn to except a punch and still fight. Get Up, Don't quit.
I see the young boys here in Philippines fight..FIGHT each other...it's not always the older tougher kid that wins.. Its the Kid with confidence and "Eye of the Tiger"... He will grow up and be a skilled warrior. MORE important.. Mold the Kid to act for good, and not bad... That is the problem...the Kids growing up in United States that ARE Allowed to fight are Urban Inner City parentless /fatherless thugs... No One is around to set them straight. They grow up with the strong confidence but with a Predator instinct instead of a Noble Posture to others.

I have taken punches to the head/body..I have NOT won every fight I've been in. I've been shot once and shot back several..and slashed/stabbed twice... I've run from gun fire and I've Run towards it... I've shot at and been shot at. It is a mind set... But confidence comes from not only training, but experience... I Have one guy here working for me who claimed the Lotto Motto.."You must be in it to Win it"
One of the Biggest problems I see for Shootings in USA... and Now unfortunately with Soldiers either with US military or Paid forces are LEGAL.... The Poor fighter shoots in defense or for work and then gets charged with a crime... That would make anyone think twice before acting, when you might ONLY have a second to act....
The best training short of actual combat, is people watching. Just WATCH People... head over to some REAL biker Bars... Not the Poser bars. Just watch... they aren't scary people... But REAL Fighters... Visit a prison to work in their study programs.. Volunteer at homeless shelters and soup kitchens, street teen agencies... Does this sound silly?? NO. It gets you comfortable being around these people... these people ALL Have the "Eye of the Tiger"... GUT FIGHTING SKILLS.... Get comfortable around them..so you don't blink... So when you do ever meet their kind in a dark parking lot, you can look back at them...with a comfort level they will feel in their gut... They will SMELL THE CREDIBILITY ON YOU...I BET They Pick an easier target!!!

My Experiences... Captain Extraction Force Philippines.

My father is a Filipino and had taught me a lot, came from Ilocos.
(I want to say more but..sorry gotta go...DH is calling...)

 

[Ringo]

I think that if you have to ask yourself the question, you've got your answer.

 

[kengrubb]

The Dinkheller video is instructive, but we should check in on reality.

530 LEOs were feloniously slain between 1999 and 2008, 53 a year, and there's just over 700K sworn, serving LEOs.

I'm sure it's happened more often, if only once more, but I know of just one incident where a concealed carrier was killed by a criminal attacker. Mark Wilson during the Tyler Texas courthouse shooting. This was a more than somewhat unusual incident in that David Arroyo was wearing body armor and wielded a rifle.

Police officers by the nature of their work have to go into harms way. Conversely, under the same conditions, the law may well hold the private citizen to different expectations.

The archetype of the beast is out there, but they just aren't all that common and they're much more of a threat to cops than the 4 to 5 million concealed carriers.

 

[GLOCK9]

KenGrubb,

I Agree with you on the fact that LEOs Put themselves in Harms way Much more by the Nature of their Work...But Thats Just it, They Put Themselves there. I believe that the Average CW Carrier meets/greets and is around Just as many hardened criminals as a Police Officer....It's Just that the Average Citizen does not arouse the "beast". A Man out LOOKING for a Bear is Much more Likely to Have a Confrontation... because he was frankly Looking for one. Police officers Look for the confrontation..They Purposely Pull a Car over, Ask to Detain someone..Ask you Personal questions... That is their job if you look or act suspicious. They are Enforcing The Laws...They Put themselves in Harms way because of their Duty. The average Citizen just sees these very same people and cross the street, step aside or lets it go... It's Not a CW carriers job.
I do not question WHY I get into more fire-fights than most people... because Most people are Not working in the Rural Philippine provinces with Muslim or NPA Extremists... I'm Not enforcing Laws.. I'm protecting Property. So it's Not really a good comparison to say I'm held to the same standards. I can fire when others can't. I have no Laws to enforce.... I do not see where any CW Carriers have compared themselves or their duty to the police. When NOT working, I just Run from Gun Fire...Get the Hell away...Its Not My Job to investigate or get involved. But, Being Well Trained is another matter.... I believe if you carry a weapon, you should at least have the training and mental preparedness to use it if Trouble comes to you... I believe that it creates confidence that the criminal element sees and feels and will shy away from when an "average" person does cross their path EVERY Day in Real Life.
Just My 2 Cents and Worth Every Penny... Captain

 

[JJFlash]

It only takes one time and if that happens to be the one time you're not prepared physically and mentally, well...

 

[kengrubb]

In the words of Captain Sullenberger, most dangerous part of my job was driving to and from the airport.

I sometimes get the feeling there are those who believe Condition Yellow is only the beginning and flirt with the idea of Condition Orange on a daily basis.

 

[JJFlash]

In the words of Captain Sullenberger, most dangerous part of my job was driving to and from the airport.

I sometimes get the feeling there are those who believe Condition Yellow is only the beginning and flirt with the idea of Condition Orange on a daily basis.

So, what's your point?

 

[kengrubb]

So, what's your point?

It's useful and instructive to learn from the Newhall Incident, 1986 FBI Miami shootout, Steve Chaney & Mike Thompson (Ultimate Survivors video), et al. as well as from videos capturing the murder of Constable Lunsford or Deputy Dinkheller.

But reality for cops and reality for private citizens who carry, openly or concealed, are completely different.

I've been through some FOF at Firearms Academy of Seattle, and the key takeaway for me was that not every problem is a nail. In talking with others who've been through FAS, and other schools, they too seem to mostly identify the nail/hammer syndrome.

 

[JJFlash]

I can't disagree with that.

I guess my point has always been that the "average" CCW holder is ill-prepared for any kind of confrontation, particularly with a real determined BG. Too many of us go thru the minimal requirements, strap 'em on, and head out. Granted that our odds of encountering a BG in no way approximates that of an LEO, but we're all carrying so we obviously think there's some chance. I've carried legally for about 30 years (and longer otherwise) and have never even had occasion to think about drawing my sidearm. But I still carry, and I train fairly hard and consistently on the outside chance that I might have to. Whatever...I think if you carry, you must train, and have the mindset to be able to handle this kind of encounter. I have friends who don't carry, and their point-of-view is "what are the odds of having to use it?". That's their choice. I'll carry til I can't and know that I can use it effectively if I have to.

My .02 cents.