Expert advice for a newbie

[Bdub6217]

Hello this is my first post and sorry in advance if it's too long. I am new to the pistol world.. I have many years experience with rifles and shotguns but very minimal with handguns and almost zero experience with semi autos.. But I am looking to partake in the CC lifestyle... I've been shopping for about a year now but truely cannot make up my mind.. So any advice or suggestions are greatly appreciated..

Here are my requirements.. The gun must be safe i know In guns the biggest safety is the person using it but I'd like additional things like drop safety's, or trigger or manual safety's... Gun must be easily concealable. I prefer a gin that disappears on me.. One that no matter what I'm wearing short of a speedo I can carry without much thought... Another issue is price... I'm really not looking to drop 5-6 hundred dollars on a gun.. I'd rather use that much on a new rifle or bow (hunter) I want something that goes bang and if someone broke into my car I wouldn't be devastated.. And finally i would prefer 9 mm but with all my requirements this may not be an option... I prefer 9 due to ammo price, availability, and knockdown if I carry in the woods (cougar or wolfs although unlikely)... Some guns I've looked into are the Beretta nano, sccy cpx, kahr cm9 and S&w bodyguard.. Although i have a personal preference for revolvers I am slightly uncomfortable carrying one deep concealed...

So there you have it I really appreciate any advice to this newbie

 

[bofh]

The S&W M&P Shield 9mm with thumb safety is currently Link Removed. It is a very reliable and concealable single-stack 9mm. Highly recommended by those who train the good guys how to shoot the bad guys: James Yeager | Smith and Wesson. The thumb safety can be left disengaged if one doesn't like a manual safety.

A few comments:

• All modern handguns are drop safe.
• Manual safeties have the advantage of an extra safety against a negligent discharge and the disadvantage of an extra step required to defend your life.
• Concealability is not only about gun size, but also about how you carry it and with what clothes and holster. Pocket guns are easier to conceal, but also more difficult to handle and shoot accurately under stress.
• So, you are willing to invest money into a sporting or hunting rifle/bow, but not for a life saving handgun? Just shaking my head here. You do understand that you should also spend some money on equipment, training and practice?
• Equipment: A quality gun belt and holster go a long way in providing carry comfort and ease of use. Quality sights improve accuracy.
• Training: Just because you know how to shoot rifles doesn't mean you know how to shoot pistols or how to defend your life with it. A quality training class will teach you how to safely and quickly draw your handgun, when to draw, how to efficiently stop a threat in seconds, and how not get shot by an attacker or by yourself in the process.
• Practice: You should already know that shooting is a perishable skill. One needs to practice to be good.
• 9mm is an acceptable self defense caliber and is carried by MARSOC and SEALs. Price and availability permit training and frequent practice.
• The term "knockdown power" is misleading and not used by those who know better. No one is being knocked down by a firearm, other than a shooter not understanding the concept of recoil. The proper term is stopping power and is used to identify the capability of stopping a threat.
• 9mm in the woods? It really depends for what. I carry 10mm in the woods, because we do have black bears in our area. There are hot 9mm FMJ-FN rounds that one could use if penetration is needed. A short-barreled handgun, however, won't provide much more performance with hot loads as most of the extra powder gets burned after the bullet left the barrel. Be prepared for a fireball and a significant kick with a mouse gun, like the Kahr CM9.
• If you go for pocket carry, do carry your firearm in a pocket holster, such as the DeSantis Nemesis. Realize that you can't draw your gun while sitting in the driver seat of a car, or at least not in time to defend your life.
• The SmartCarry holster allows for deep concealment, such as for jogging, but also has some drawbacks. You definitely can't draw your gun from a SmartCarry holster while sitting in the driver seat of a car.
• If you get the Shield, get XS Big Dot Sights, see James Yeager | Shooting the S&W Shield with XS Big Dots.
• If you get the Shield, get the NSR Tactical Holster, see James Yeager | NSR Tactical for the S&W Shield and TDI Knife. Note that NSR Tactical is currently moving and will be back in production in a week or two.

Go to a range that rents handguns and try them out! Understand that you are not buying a handgun to compete in the Olympics (for tight groups when slow-shooting). Self defense is fast and messy. Any properly trained person with the right handgun and holster can draw and shoot 2 rounds to the chest and one to the head in 2-3 seconds at a man-size target 5-7 yards away, all while moving sideways to avoid getting shot by the attacker. Get some training!

 

[Bdub6217]

Thank you for the advice I personally have not been able to find the shield in my area for under $430 even though I have heard many people say so... And the research I have done from guys like James Yeager, Colion Noir, Yankee marshal and Hickok have shown me that I don't need a 5-6 hundred dollar gun to protect myself plus I straight up cannot afford that right now... I do intend on taking a class once I have my pistol and I do open Carry my model 19 357 and have had a to. Of experience shooting it but minimal with smaller autos... My biggest concern is basically being lazy and failing to dress around the gun that's why guns that I can potentially pocket carry are so appealing whatever i get I would like to be able to fit into a desantis nemesis in cargo shorts and a n82 holster at other times..

I do thank you for the advice maybe I left out a few important details, but I'm not willing to sacrifice quality but I have read reviews on price point guns and on the ones I mentioned i read good things

 

[bofh]

My pocket carry advice, only do it if there is no other option. I am pocket carrying my Glock 26 while skiing in a zipped pant pocket with a holster. However, the moment I am back at my car getting my ski boots off, I am switching back to my NSR Tactical holster at 4 o-clock IWB.

 

[Bdub6217]

So for accuracy don't get a mouse gun and only pocket carry when u have no other option otherwise iwb.. Cool,

In ur experience is the cm9 or shield too small for accuracy?

 

[bofh]

So for accuracy don't get a mouse gun and only pocket carry when u have no other option otherwise iwb.. Cool,

In ur experience is the cm9 or shield too small for accuracy?

The CM9 and the Shield are different. The CM9 is smaller and lighter. I haven't shot the CM9. I think it is too small for a 9mm handgun. I have shot the Shield and it is a blast. It is easy to shoot accurately with. The recoil is manageable. However, you should try it out yourself.

Note that all properly manufactured guns themselves are accurate. Their shootability, or better the lack thereof, can make them inaccurate in the hand of a shooter. A small sight radius, tiny sights that are difficult to acquire quickly, high recoil due to light weight, and a small grip are all negative factors.

 

[apvbguy]

in addition to all the advice given, I would offer that you go to a trainer and learn how to use your weapon effectively.

 

[Almost_Blameless]

I have NOT handled a S&W SHIELD but do own a KAHR CM9... I do not feel that the recoil is too much, or that the sight radius hampers me with the CM9.
I've owned and shot .380s that had more harsh recoil than 9MMs, due to the blow-back designs.

The reliability on the CM9 I own has been absolutely flawless through many hundreds of rounds. This is a less expensive version of Kahr's PM9, but its functionality has been perfect so far.

I used to carry (for years and years) a Model 60 S&W .357. Now, this is a gun with a nasty bark & attitude when charged up with 357's.

The CM9 has nowhere near the recoil or report of that short barreled 357 revolver, even when using hot +P 9MM rounds.

The small-framed S&W Model 60s hold 5 rounds, period. Then its a manual reload either round-by-round to the cylinder, or a speed loader (another bulky item to carry). A semi-auto pistol like the CM9 carries 6+1 9MM rounds, AND you can very comfortably carry a couple/few extra magazines.

I've owned and carried many different pistols, from full sized 1911's down to a Beretta 21a. I find that for me, the smaller framed 9MM's will give ME the best combo of power and carry-a-ability. There are some very potent self-protection rounds available today made specifically for short barreled weapons that seem to narrow the performance gap between certain calibers, such as the Hornady Critical Defense or Critical Duty, both plastic tipped/ HP rounds.

Other ammunition manufacturers make their own versions of high performance rounds too.

The KAHR pistols have NO safety, and will fire even when the magazine is removed...perfect... for me, HOWEVER, a semi-auto without a manual safety can be a tough sell to those who (mistakenly) believe that the gun is gonna be discharging whenever it wants without an extra button or lever on the gun.

I believe that a defensive weapon should basically perform as a double-action revolver... a threat appears, you assess, draw when necessary, aim, and (squeeze) shoot. No safeties, no racking the slide.

The one short-coming of this, and other pistols like it, is the absence of a 'second strike' capability, should a round not ignite when the striker hits the primer. Those striker fired pistols that DO have a second strike capability may be a rational choice for those who want the capability of the second strike.

On the Kahr and several other striker fired guns, if a round fails to fire you must perform a drill whereby you rack the slide to accomplish all the following: (1)discharge the failed round, (2)chamber a fresh round, AND (3)re-cock the striker. While this has never (yet) happened to me, using the CM9, I have practiced this drill many many times by loading dummy rounds to my magazines at different depths, so I have the dead rounds showing up at unexpected times.

Whatever you choose, PRACTICE everything having to do with your weapon, over and over and over... AND...

Most importantly, once you (1) make your decision, (2) purchase your weapon, (3) become accustomed to it, (4) and accurate with it,
CARRY YOUR WEAPON AT ALL TIMES!

Happy Shootin'

 

[JeffB]

Given the price limitations and safety (perceived) needs, of course the answer is a DA revolver, .38 for ammo price if that's the deciding factor. And "easily concealable" is a relative concept. A 2" can go into the pocket, but a properly belted and holstered 3-4" can certainly "disappear" on one.

My greater concern is "... something that goes bang and if someone broke into my car I wouldn't be devastated." Are you saying you wouldn't care whatever the choice, it has to be cheap enough that you wouldn't care if it were stolen? That's disconcerting.

-jb

 

[JeffB]

<Expert advice for a newbie>

p.s. My effort to reply in no way implies I'm an "expert>

-jb

 

[delford]

I have NOT handled a S&W SHIELD but do own a KAHR CM9... I do not feel that the recoil is too much, or that the sight radius hampers me with the CM9.
I've owned and shot .380s that had more harsh recoil than 9MMs, due to the blow-back designs.

The reliability on the CM9 I own has been absolutely flawless through many hundreds of rounds. This is a less expensive version of Kahr's PM9, but its functionality has been perfect so far.

I used to carry (for years and years) a Model 60 S&W .357. Now, this is a gun with a nasty bark & attitude when charged up with 357's.

The CM9 has nowhere near the recoil or report of that short barreled 357 revolver, even when using hot +P 9MM rounds.

The small-framed S&W Model 60s hold 5 rounds, period. Then its a manual reload either round-by-round to the cylinder, or a speed loader (another bulky item to carry). A semi-auto pistol like the CM9 carries 6+1 9MM rounds, AND you can very comfortably carry a couple/few extra magazines.

I've owned and carried many different pistols, from full sized 1911's down to a Beretta 21a. I find that for me, the smaller framed 9MM's will give ME the best combo of power and carry-a-ability. There are some very potent self-protection rounds available today made specifically for short barreled weapons that seem to narrow the performance gap between certain calibers, such as the Hornady Critical Defense or Critical Duty, both plastic tipped/ HP rounds.

Other ammunition manufacturers make their own versions of high performance rounds too.

The KAHR pistols have NO safety, and will fire even when the magazine is removed...perfect... for me, HOWEVER, a semi-auto without a manual safety can be a tough sell to those who (mistakenly) believe that the gun is gonna be discharging whenever it wants without an extra button or lever on the gun.

I believe that a defensive weapon should basically perform as a double-action revolver... a threat appears, you assess, draw when necessary, aim, and (squeeze) shoot. No safeties, no racking the slide.

The one short-coming of this, and other pistols like it, is the absence of a 'second strike' capability, should a round not ignite when the striker hits the primer. Those striker fired pistols that DO have a second strike capability may be a rational choice for those who want the capability of the second strike.

On the Kahr and several other striker fired guns, if a round fails to fire you must perform a drill whereby you rack the slide to accomplish all the following: (1)discharge the failed round, (2)chamber a fresh round, AND (3)re-cock the striker. While this has never (yet) happened to me, using the CM9, I have practiced this drill many many times by loading dummy rounds to my magazines at different depths, so I have the dead rounds showing up at unexpected times.

Whatever you choose, PRACTICE everything having to do with your weapon, over and over and over... AND...

Most importantly, once you (1) make your decision, (2) purchase your weapon, (3) become accustomed to it, (4) and accurate with it,
CARRY YOUR WEAPON AT ALL TIMES!

Happy Shootin'

I carry a Kahr PM45 which has far less muzzle flash than micro 9mm semi autos I've shot and actually also less felt recoil than an XDs9 or a G27. 9mm is marginally less expensive but I started shooting 7 years ago after getting my CCL. After trying several calibers I found I like to shoot .45ACP best and bought a Ruger P345 which I still practice with. While medium sized it was not a problem to conceal in a High Noon Split Decision, which I also bought for my Kahr when I purchased it more recently. With the PM45 I can carry IWB usually but have pocket carried in cargo shorts in the same holster. I am much more comfortable and proficient with IWB carry. Like Happy said, practice with what you buy. Practice moving while shooting as well. Your life may depend on it.