Ever failed a student?
- Thread starter fearhd
- Start date
Kosher kowboy
New member
Yes, keep up the good work. It is commendable that you adhere to the rules and fail people that are not able to meet the standards. Back in the day when I lived in Texas, out of all the CHL classes that I suffered through there was not a single one that followed the prescribed time limits for the shooting qualification.
Kosher kowboy
New member
I used to joke that the diplomas that I got from the really lame universities that I attended were much more receipts than diplomas. If you turn your CHL class into a license mill, the consequences can be far more dire and you may wind up with a real mess on your hands if you don't do things as you believe they should be done.
Pitt County Pride
New member
Keep the faith, brother! I am a NC instructor who absolutely refused to administer an 8-hour class unless I have 6 students or less. Most of my classes are 12-14 hours. I go beyond the bare minimum required by law and require competence, not just the prescribed number of holes in the target. If you're looking an 8-hour "quickie", there are plenty others ready to deliver. In my class we talk about tactics, learn to move with a gun, and discuss techniques necessary to survive the aftermath of a shooting. If you have a question in my class, any question, I try to answer it. I've never had anyone abuse my patience. If I can teach you to avoid a shooting and, if necessary, how to survive it legally, morally and psychologically, I feel like I have fulfilled my calling. I have taught civilian firearms for over 31 years and been a law enforcement firearms instructor during my entire law enforcement career. Quality is more important than quantity and facts more helpful than platitudes. Do it right my friend!
I've had a group of students tell me that they wanted a class with just "hands on" and no bookwork. Any instructor knows that a moral responsibility, as well as professional requirements, dictate otherwise. I'm a firearms instructor, but this happened to me when I was asked to set up a "first in" fire instruction class. No matter what you instruct, someone will ask you to compromise standards, for some reason or another. "Standards" are standards, and are proven to work in most cases. Compromising them puts everyone into a non proven, unknown, possibly dangerous situation. "Everyone goes home" is the motto in emergency management services, and this can be a good fit in firearms safety, hunter safety, boating safety, etc. Safety has no compromise!
I am guessing that it may have something to do with the second amendment. Why is someone that open carries without a chl anymore of a risk. I understand you sell your services and I guess I am just wondering when you are going to insist that anyone wanting to purchase a firearm must first attend a ten hour class on firearms safety. How about ten hours of training before you can shoot skeet? Or how about the right to bear arms is enshrined in the constitution and mandatory training is not! Most people that have firearms are well adjusted folks and probably don't need an NRA class. Just another way to tax folks...that's all...just another way to create unnecessary jobs.
N R A
New member
No child left behind. lol
.
I could see additional training, or refusing to let someone get past the first hour of classroom instruction if they had a bad attitude, but going through the class, and saying no? So far, I have seen no one that would end in that result. I have recommended they get a better operating firearm, better holster, training belt, etc.
.
On a mass production assembly line, sometimes stuff falls off the convertor belt that should not be marketed. I would think in a small class of lots of one on one instruction, Finding at the end, """Houston, We Have A Problem""", is a sign the program is at fault as much as the student.
.
I could see additional training, or refusing to let someone get past the first hour of classroom instruction if they had a bad attitude, but going through the class, and saying no? So far, I have seen no one that would end in that result. I have recommended they get a better operating firearm, better holster, training belt, etc.
.
On a mass production assembly line, sometimes stuff falls off the convertor belt that should not be marketed. I would think in a small class of lots of one on one instruction, Finding at the end, """Houston, We Have A Problem""", is a sign the program is at fault as much as the student.
gejoslin
Illegitimi non carborundu
Two years ago when I took my Ark CHCL class we had one guy who interrupted the instructor and contradicted him at every turn. After 2 hours of this he refunded his money at the first break and sent him on his way. He smelled like he was still drunk from last night.
We could breathe better after that. The instructor was a assistant preacher.
We could breathe better after that. The instructor was a assistant preacher.
fearhd
New member
@ JimTh. Please don't misunderstand me. I believe everyone should own a firearm. Parents, friends or someone taught people how to use a gun properly from its conception. But as long as its State Law and I could be responsible for signing a cert for someone who has made a bad decision, I will not pass someone who is unsafe.
Pitt County Pride
New member
And all of God's children said AMEN!!!!!! I warn people in advance that my class isn't an 8-hour quickie. Since mandatory standards were established for North Carolina's CC on December 1st , 1995, I can only remember one student who didn't pass and that was because he didn't return for FREE remedial training. If my name is on the dotted line, so is my reputation and my family's reputation. It means more to me than all the gold in the world...
RJT CCW
New member
As an instructor it is your right and duty to not pass an individual who does not meet the requirements of your state. Here in Missouri it is a Class C Misdemeanor if an instructor falsifies information in regards to the training of those who seek a CCW permit.
Personally I have not failed a student. My remedy is to work with each student no matter how long it takes. I to believe that having to take a state mandated class to exercise a right is bullpoop. But, until we get the law changed I will help people to stay within the law while having the ability to defend themselves.
Personally I have not failed a student. My remedy is to work with each student no matter how long it takes. I to believe that having to take a state mandated class to exercise a right is bullpoop. But, until we get the law changed I will help people to stay within the law while having the ability to defend themselves.
Pir8fan
,
I too am an NRA instructor and NC CH instructor. As you know, part of our requirement is that the prospective permit holder be able to demonstrate basic competency with the firearm, including safety, handling fundamentals, marksmanship and proficiency. If they don't, I fail them. My name's on that certificate too and I if I'm not comfortable with their ability to handle a handgun, I won't sign it. I'll strongly suggest they take a basic course and then try again. I don't refund their class fee. I tell everyone up front that they are responsible for making sure they have the ability to demonstrate the basic proficiency portion of the class. I provide them with the areas spelled out in the state regs (12 NCAC 09F.0102). If they sign up, they're telling me that they have that level of basic skill.
As they are going through the process, I take notes so that I can give them areas where they need to improve. All of this is done at the range before the classroom portion. I would hate to make someone sit through the all day class and then fail the skills portion.
Pir8fan
,
The thread was started by an NC instructor. State law requires that a participant be able to demonstrate handgun safety, handgun fundamentals, marksmanship fundamentals, presentation of firearm techniques, cleaning and maintenance and proficiency drills. He's just following state law. Virtually all of us oppose any type of 2A restrictions but if we chose to ignore the laws, we're no better than the thugs that cause us so much trouble. You've obviously not tried to instruct anyone and have no clue what is involved. You would be surprised how scary some of these people are with a handgun. Nearly every class I teach, someone shows up that has NEVER fired a gun. If state law mandates certain requirements and I'm an instructor in that state, like it or not, I'm going to adhere to the requirements the state imposes. In NC, if one of our students is involved in a shooting with a concealed weapon, more than likely, the CHP instructor is going to be on the stand talking about the instruction the student received. No way I'm going to put my neck on the chopping block by ignoring our state's standards.
Pitt County Pride
New member
Totally agree with you. All law-abiding citizens in North Carolina can open carry. If they don't have the skills required by law for concealed carry, they should either work to acquire them, open carry or lock it in their gun vault. Go ECU Pirates against Old Dominion!
I teach CHL in Texas. There have been a lot of changes in the standards of instruction and who is a certified instructor. I invite you to venture back to my neck of the woods. My students always tell me my class was too short (yes, it was supposed to be 10 hours but ends up more like 13). Your dissatisfaction appears to be in your choices of instructors not the program.
I have not failed a student. Usually the written test isn't an issue, I have had to have a couple come in for extra instruction before qualifying. Often the poor shooting qualification came from someone bringing a brand new gun (straight out of the box). After we have a cleaning class, we head back to the range and ensure their grip is good and the sights are accurate. Having mismatched sights on a gun will really mess you up at 15 yards.
N R A
New member
I teach a pre CC class. It involves watching four NRA videos, and taking small test and break between each video. Takes four hours, then I send them on to the state approved 8 hour CC class.
After my class, and the class that follows, they know what corner of the gun, the bullet comes out from.
I have never failed a student, or seen another instructor I work with, fail a student. I think a good interview going into the class should nip that issue in the bud, most always.
After my class, and the class that follows, they know what corner of the gun, the bullet comes out from.
I have never failed a student, or seen another instructor I work with, fail a student. I think a good interview going into the class should nip that issue in the bud, most always.
wolf_fire
New member
I've had many folk ask me to teach them "how to shoot". I tell them the first time I meet with them, will not be at a range, so don't even think you will shoot your first time out. The first time I meet with them, the first thing I do is make them take out a piece of paper and write down the four rules of safe gun handling. I let them know these aren't just sayings; if you violate anyone of these, or cannot tell me them when I ask later, I will stop the live training immediately. The first meeting, I also teach them how to properly hold a semi-auto pistol and a revolver correctly. I teach them proper grip, proper sight alignment, and proper stance, until I'm satisfied that they have it. This saves a lot of time when we do get to the range.
When we do get to the range, my first question to them is to tell me the 4 rules. If they can't, I tell them to pack up and I'm not willing to work with them anymore. If they can we move on. With unloaded firearms, I have them show me that they can still correctly hold the weapon, have good stance and have them tell me how to achieve good sight alignment. After this has been done, only then do I introduce the ammunition and show them how to properly load the ammo into the magazine and the magazine into the gun (or ammo into the cylinder of a revolver). This is also when I incorporate the range safety rules about keeping the firearm down range, etc.. During the lesson, I will ask them the 4 rules again at random times. If they cannot tell me, we end the live fire and go home.
I do all this when a friend asks for me to show them how to shoot. I would expect more from someone that I pay for the class. Fearhd, I applaud your commitment to sticking with your principles.
When we do get to the range, my first question to them is to tell me the 4 rules. If they can't, I tell them to pack up and I'm not willing to work with them anymore. If they can we move on. With unloaded firearms, I have them show me that they can still correctly hold the weapon, have good stance and have them tell me how to achieve good sight alignment. After this has been done, only then do I introduce the ammunition and show them how to properly load the ammo into the magazine and the magazine into the gun (or ammo into the cylinder of a revolver). This is also when I incorporate the range safety rules about keeping the firearm down range, etc.. During the lesson, I will ask them the 4 rules again at random times. If they cannot tell me, we end the live fire and go home.
I do all this when a friend asks for me to show them how to shoot. I would expect more from someone that I pay for the class. Fearhd, I applaud your commitment to sticking with your principles.
New Threads
-
-
-
-
-
Mystic Seaport Museum, Shelburne Museum Vermont
- Started by Harry45255
- Replies: 0
Members online
No members online now.