Erik Scott Candlelight Vigil

7

702Shooter

New member
Hello all,

I realize that this being my first post, it may seem a bit spammy. Under the circumstances, please avoid that train of thought and focus on the real issue which is spreading the word about the shooting of Erik Scott by LVMPD Officers.

Last night we attended Erik's candlelight vigil and we want to share some of that with you. We, the friends, and family of Erik Scott also encourage you to repost this information and help spread the word.

Full article, pics, and video:

Eric Scott Candlelight Vigil at Summerlin Costco in Las vegas, NV
 
I will probably not be popular for saying this, but I don't see why this guy is being hailed as some sort of victim. We don't know the facts. Some witnesses say he did nothing, others saw him draw one of his guns.

Until the facts come out, if they ever do, people who make this guy into a hero, or victim, are no different than people who assume he was unstable due to carrying a gun, or being in the military, etc.

When otherwise rational gun owners automatically make assumptions and hold candlelight vigils for stuff like this, when the one thing EVERYONE knows is that no one knows everything about what happened, it reflects poorly on all of us. That may be right, it may be wrong, but that is the way it is. I first saw comments on some boards stating "coverup" "murder", etc the day after this happened. Obviously not well thought out positions.

If it is found that the police were wrong, I would be in favor of the harshest penalty allowed by law. If it is found he pulled a gun, he got what he deserved. What is wrong with saying that?

Sure, I live in the Vegas area and hear all the stuff about "Metro kills all the time and it never gets investigated, etc" "it is a conspiracy" etc. Even if someone could prove it has happened before, it is irrelevant to what happened in this case.

Gun owners should watch, follow the case, get involved if able and hope the truth prevails. Not jump to conclusions about conspiracies that make us sound irresponsible.
 
I don’t think people are jumping to conclusions and no disrespect to you either but its just that this crap of no answers is really getting old. This was a tragedy on a grand scale. The police, Costco and the in store security person really screwed the pooch. Why won’t the police release the 911 calls? What about the video? We have heard the dispatch recordings of the cops responding although not from official channels. Lets examine the events or what we know of from the news reports since that’s all we have to go on.

Costco security calls the police (911) and for the most part reports that a man in the store has a gun, damaging merchandise and acting strange. A normal person would naturally think after hearing this that a man is inside a store waving a gun, threatening people with said gun and running down the isles knocking over or destroying merchandise. The first reports said customers inside the store called 911. Later reports said it was Costco’s security that called 911. Police won’t release the 911 calls so we may never know what was really reported.

The 911 dispatcher should have qualified the call by asking simple questions such as: 1. Is the man waving the gun? 2. Where is he now? 3. Is anybody hurt? 4. What is he doing now? Where is the gun? We know that the security or the manager interacted with Eric prior to the 911. This is when this person noticed the gun. The reports further state that this person told Eric he could not have a gun in the store. Eric’s response was he had a concealed permit to legally carry a gun. What happened after that is not yet known. What most likely happened was this person left Eric and called 911. 911 dispatched units to the scene with a report of a man with a gun possibly high on drugs. What the manager should have done was said: Sir, Costco’s store policy is no guns. I know the sign outside is small and you may not have noticed it but could you please go and secure it inside your vehicle. But that’s not what happened.

Police responded to the scene as if a man walked into the store, started waving a gun then proceeded to go an a destroy mission attacking helpless merchandise. They (the police) requested ambulances to the scene before they even arrived and ordered that the store be evacuated. Now I think it’s a pretty clear that the situation inside the store was greatly exaggerated prompting the police to responded in the manner that they did.

But it gets worse from here. There are conflicting reports from witnesses as to what occurred when the police arrived. They approached with guns drawn as the customers were evacuating the store. That’s when store employees had to point Eric out and police turned there attention to him. Now logic would tell me here that you look for the person waving a gun around acting weird. Some witness said police ordered him at gunpoint to drop his gun. Other witness said they told him to get down. Is it possible that more than one cop was shouting orders at him? Which one do you try to follow. If Eric heard “drop your gun” and he tried to comply by removing his gun from the holster….well we know what happened next.

Lets suppose for a moment that the cops didn’t shoot him and that he managed to remove his gun from the holster, lay it on the ground and was placed in handcuffs. I am sure the cops would begin asking questions, checking his ID, running him for warrants and the normal stuff cops get paid to do. What laws did he break? Was he going to be charged with shop lifting? How about opening a package in a store? Most likely he would have been released after the cops checked him out and determined that no crime had been committed.

Now back to reality. Eric was killed due to a terrible chain of events, gross negligence and failure to act quick enough to confusing commands issued by cops who thought they were responding to a drug crazed criminal going crazy with a gun. The sad and scary fact is this could happen to any one of us. You would think that in this country with more and more citizens getting permits to legally carry firearms that the police would take precautions that mistakes like this don't happen.

The police are not perfect. They make mistakes and unfortunately when they do people are often killed or paralyzed for life. Remember that cop from Ohio that shot some guy on a motorcycle in the back? He wasn't killed but is now confined to a wheel chair paralyzed from the chest down. The dashboard video camera captured the events as they unfolded. The cop was sued then later charged, convicted and sentenced to prison. During the time leading up to the trial the police department defended the cops actions. Bottom line here is he made a mistake and acted to quickly to a threat that did not exist just as the LV Metro did. The video was the clincher in that case. How many cops have been arrested for crimes that they committed during hurricane Katrina? And these are but a few cases. All of them tragic and unnecessary. I am not anti-cop. My father was a cop and I have heard his war stories, some are funny others are not. The world we live in today has changed and not for the better. Laws should apply to everyone.

If the police make a mistake, they should man up to it and take steps not to make the same mistake twice. Instead they hide behind department policy. Old ladies and children should never ever be tasered period. 3rd and 4th graders should not be hauled away in cuffs for drawing a gun on a sheet of paper. Did I say this crap was getting out of control. I am certain the LV Metro PD can see the storm clouds of a huge law suite brewing. If they feel they acted properly then they should be forthcoming with the evidence but they haven't. To make matters worse the coroners inquest has been postponed indefinitely. So I guess a formal and proper investigation is now out of the question. This definitely looks like they are trying to hide something. Just my 2 cents worth but I bet his friends and family feel the same way I do.
 
BigSlick said:
I don’t think people are jumping to conclusions and no disrespect to you either but its just that this crap of no answers is really getting old. This was a tragedy on a grand scale. The police, Costco and the in store security person really screwed the pooch. Why won’t the police release the 911 calls? What about the video? We have heard the dispatch recordings of the cops responding although not from official channels. Lets examine the events or what we know of from the news reports since that’s all we have to go on.

Costco security calls the police (911) and for the most part reports that a man in the store has a gun, damaging merchandise and acting strange. A normal person would naturally think after hearing this that a man is inside a store waving a gun, threatening people with said gun and running down the isles knocking over or destroying merchandise. The first reports said customers inside the store called 911. Later reports said it was Costco’s security that called 911. Police won’t release the 911 calls so we may never know what was really reported.

The 911 dispatcher should have qualified the call by asking simple questions such as: 1. Is the man waving the gun? 2. Where is he now? 3. Is anybody hurt? 4. What is he doing now? Where is the gun? We know that the security or the manager interacted with Eric prior to the 911. This is when this person noticed the gun. The reports further state that this person told Eric he could not have a gun in the store. Eric’s response was he had a concealed permit to legally carry a gun. What happened after that is not yet known. What most likely happened was this person left Eric and called 911. 911 dispatched units to the scene with a report of a man with a gun possibly high on drugs. What the manager should have done was said: Sir, Costco’s store policy is no guns. I know the sign outside is small and you may not have noticed it but could you please go and secure it inside your vehicle. But that’s not what happened.

Police responded to the scene as if a man walked into the store, started waving a gun then proceeded to go an a destroy mission attacking helpless merchandise. They (the police) requested ambulances to the scene before they even arrived and ordered that the store be evacuated. Now I think it’s a pretty clear that the situation inside the store was greatly exaggerated prompting the police to responded in the manner that they did.

But it gets worse from here. There are conflicting reports from witnesses as to what occurred when the police arrived. They approached with guns drawn as the customers were evacuating the store. That’s when store employees had to point Eric out and police turned there attention to him. Now logic would tell me here that you look for the person waving a gun around acting weird. Some witness said police ordered him at gunpoint to drop his gun. Other witness said they told him to get down. Is it possible that more than one cop was shouting orders at him? Which one do you try to follow. If Eric heard “drop your gun” and he tried to comply by removing his gun from the holster….well we know what happened next.

Lets suppose for a moment that the cops didn’t shoot him and that he managed to remove his gun from the holster, lay it on the ground and was placed in handcuffs. I am sure the cops would begin asking questions, checking his ID, running him for warrants and the normal stuff cops get paid to do. What laws did he break? Was he going to be charged with shop lifting? How about opening a package in a store? Most likely he would have been released after the cops checked him out and determined that no crime had been committed.

Now back to reality. Eric was killed due to a terrible chain of events, gross negligence and failure to act quick enough to confusing commands issued by cops who thought they were responding to a drug crazed criminal going crazy with a gun. The sad and scary fact is this could happen to any one of us. You would think that in this country with more and more citizens getting permits to legally carry firearms that the police would take precautions that mistakes like this don't happen.

The police are not perfect. They make mistakes and unfortunately when they do people are often killed or paralyzed for life. Remember that cop from Ohio that shot some guy on a motorcycle in the back? He wasn't killed but is now confined to a wheel chair paralyzed from the chest down. The dashboard video camera captured the events as they unfolded. The cop was sued then later charged, convicted and sentenced to prison. During the time leading up to the trial the police department defended the cops actions. Bottom line here is he made a mistake and acted to quickly to a threat that did not exist just as the LV Metro did. The video was the clincher in that case. How many cops have been arrested for crimes that they committed during hurricane Katrina? And these are but a few cases. All of them tragic and unnecessary. I am not anti-cop. My father was a cop and I have heard his war stories, some are funny others are not. The world we live in today has changed and not for the better. Laws should apply to everyone.

If the police make a mistake, they should man up to it and take steps not to make the same mistake twice. Instead they hide behind department policy. Old ladies and children should never ever be tasered period. 3rd and 4th graders should not be hauled away in cuffs for drawing a gun on a sheet of paper. Did I say this crap was getting out of control. I am certain the LV Metro PD can see the storm clouds of a huge law suite brewing. If they feel they acted properly then they should be forthcoming with the evidence but they haven't. To make matters worse the coroners inquest has been postponed indefinitely. So I guess a formal and proper investigation is now out of the question. This definitely looks like they are trying to hide something. Just my 2 cents worth but I bet his friends and family feel the same way I do.
Click to expand...

Very well said Bigslick!

I really do look forward to the truth but as we know, that will probably not happen. If they were justiifed then it would have been made public. They surely are making it hard to respect the Police Department. The sad thing is that this is not the only place this happens. I have come to realize that some police and thier actions are no better than a gang member, the only differance is that the police are paid bu the citizens. I did say some not all so refrain from bashing me.
 
Bigslick, thanks for the response. You make some valid points, not the least of which is that 911 dispatchers across the board are not trained to handle MWAG calls. I browse other sites as well as this one and that one point seems, unfortunately, consistent across the country.

I would like to add that, as a ccw person myself, this case is of particular importance to me. I don't want the actions of one person to reflect on me, as a ccw holder, any more than I want to be shot by incompetent cops.

One other point you made, and this is my point as well, is that "what happened after that is not yet known. " Your Ohio example is a case in which it would seem obvious that the cop got was he deserved. I know cops in general, and metro in particular, are way to stubborn in circling the wagons around one of their own. There was a man here in Vegas who ran into a cop and killed him recently. The cop was found at fault, but I can tell you it was not for lack of effort on the part of metro to demonize the civilian.

There was a case in Michigan many years ago in which cops had a suspect at gunpoiint on the ground. He had his handes under his stomache and would not show his hands, so the cop shot him. The so called victims people all held rallies for him, called him a gentle man, etc. What actually happened was just the day before, the same scenario resulting in a cop getting killed because the man refused to show his hands, the cop tried to get him up and the perp pulled a tiny pistol and killed him. So it can go both ways.

Let me ask you a questions. I browse other boards as well as this one and read many, many stories of cops in different areas, including NV, confronting people open or concealed carrying. Some are very polite and others, not so. Yet this one ended in a killing. Does that not at least lead you to ask, maybe the civilian did something wrong? I don't know that he did, but I have that question, unlike the people at the vigil. I understand and respect their enthusiasm for what the believe. I just think it is early on for anyone to make a judgement on this case.

If if appears there may be a coverup, then our attention should be focused on getting all the facts out, rather than standing by someone when not all the facts are being placed out there.
 
Cops are just Gangs with Badges

While police traditionally perform a useful service, in recent years they've taken on more of the odor of gangs with badges.

The day-in day-out harassment of ordinary citizens, in the abusive traffic stop, in the intimidating demeanor of a cop who doesn't want to be photographed, in the general aggressive and abusive mannerisms that have come to be associated with cops being cops - sometimes gets out of hand to the point where they actually kill someone.

Whether it's a guy in New York being shot 43 times for trying to produce his identification, or one being anally probed by a pig with a nightstick, or a negligent cop who shoots a 12-year-old boy in the back with a shotgun as he lays handcuffed on the ground, cops have far to go to clean up their act.

Yet they show no intention of doing so when they lie, obfuscate, and mislead during a serious investigation. It's been a month. The answers should be available to all. And yet, the cops stonewall.

When the truth comes out, REGARDLESS of the result, a new investigation needs to take place to identify and fire everyone who had a hand in preventing the free flow of information regarding this incident. Cops need to learn that the price of a coverup is, at minimum, their jobs. They should be fired in such a way that they will never work in a position of public trust again.
 
First of all I see too many people falling into the same type routine over this that the anti-gun people do. Too many have promoted this man to a hero because he was aveteran, West Point graduate and carrying a gun. First we need to ask why did the employees at Costco even pay any attention to him to start with. I have not heard one person claim or say that it all started because he had a gun. He was acting erraticly in the store opening packages and throwing things around. An employee asked him to stop and he refused. During that encounter was when the gun was spotted. If he had been behaving himself nothing would have occurred and no call to tho police would have been made.

The dispatcher gets a call about MWAG and behaving crazily. The key here was not that he had a gun but the way he was acting. This was not a normal gun carrying call where someone is calmly walking down the street minding their own business. There was something out of the ordinary happening and in involved someone with a gun.

When the police arrived they didn't know what to expect but you can bet they were on high alert. Maybe there was one yelling get down and one yelling put the gun down. Even if there was two different orders you don't reach for your gun. If you are standing there holding your hands over your head and a cop tels you to put the gun down you don't reach for it, you tell him that you aren't holding one and s-l-o-w-l-y show your hands and ask what to do.

This is a cluster #### all the way but I can't say that a totally innocent hero was murdered in cold blood and not holding any candlelight vigils in his honor. I really hate going into a store and finding that what the packaging has already been torn open and scattered arou nd which sounds like what was happening. Yes, all of this could have been handled better starting with Mr. Scott and yes it is a tragedy but until a lot more comes out I am not ready to hang some LEO just yet.
 
Hope the truth comes out so we will know for sure but it sounds like theres some people covering there ass here . I dont think it will ever be know though
 
702Shooter said:
Hello all,

I realize that this being my first post, it may seem a bit spammy. Under the circumstances, please avoid that train of thought and focus on the real issue which is spreading the word about the shooting of Erik Scott by LVMPD Officers.

Last night we attended Erik's candlelight vigil and we want to share some of that with you. We, the friends, and family of Erik Scott also encourage you to repost this information and help spread the word.

Full article, pics, and video:

Eric Scott Candlelight Vigil at Summerlin Costco in Las vegas, NV
Click to expand...

I started the Erik Scott LVMPD shooting thread 30 days ago, here's the link:

http://www.usacarry.com/forums/general-firearm-discussion/14137-ccw-holder-shot-lvmpd-justified.html

I am Retired from the U.S. Air Force, I am also a 20 year Las Vegas resident and a CCW holder, I want to spread the word (have been since the very beginning) I want to know the truth. I am trying to bring it to the attention of all! I feel in my heart after listening to the radio frequency recordings and after serving twenty years in the military that it was a sniper style attack against. I've listened to the recordings over and over. Erik never stood a chance. I can only tell you what I feel and cannot prove anything therefore cannot make accusations because I do not have any facts. I want to see the facts, i.e. Video Surveillance, 911 tapes, etc. etc. So my heart goes out to the Scott family, God Bless them. I am a supporter of Erik Scott's no wrong doings, and will continue to post any info I come across in my thread I started 30 days ago.
Dan
P.M. me if there is anything I can do for the Scott family to help. From one Veteran to another.
 
BigSlick said:
I don’t think people are jumping to conclusions and no disrespect to you either but its just that this crap of no answers is really getting old.. Lets examine the events or what we know of from the news reports since that’s all we have to go on.
Police won’t release the 911 calls so we may never know what was really reported.
The reports further state that this person told Eric he could not have a gun in the store. Eric’s response was he had a concealed permit to legally carry a gun. What the manager should have done was said: Sir, Costco’s store policy is no guns. I know the sign outside is small and you may not have noticed it but could you please go and secure it inside your vehicle. But that’s not what happened.

Police responded to the scene as if a man walked into the store, started waving a gun then proceeded to go an a destroy mission attacking helpless merchandise. They (the police) requested ambulances to the scene before they even arrived and ordered that the store be evacuated. Now I think it’s a pretty clear that the situation inside the store was greatly exaggerated prompting the police to responded in the manner that they did.

….well we know what happened next.

What laws did he break? Was he going to be charged with shop lifting? How about opening a package in a store? Most likely he would have been released after the cops checked him out and determined that no crime had been committed.
You would think that in this country with more and more citizens getting permits to legally carry firearms that the police would take precautions that mistakes like this don't happen.

I am not anti-cop. My father was a cop and I have heard his war stories, some are funny others are not. The world we live in today has changed and not for the better. Laws should apply to everyone.

If the police make a mistake, they should man up to it and take steps not to make the same mistake twice. Instead they hide behind department policy.
This definitely looks like they are trying to hide something. Just my 2 cents worth but I bet his friends and family feel the same way I do.
Click to expand...

Lets examine the events or what we know
I agree, we need facts, all we have is police dispatch recordings for FACTS

I know the sign outside is small and you may not have noticed it but could you please go and secure it inside your vehicle.
I am ALWAYS respectfull of posted signs " NO FIREARMS ALLOWED" as a CCW holder. I shop at Costco, I've never have seen the sign. Keep in mind I have 38 states between two Resident and Non Resident CCW's and travel the U.S. regularly. Never seen a Costco with that sign.

….well we know what happened next.
Sure is looking that way, most profesional orginizations like LEO and Military do "take care of Their own"

You would think that in this country with more and more citizens getting permits to legally carry firearms that the police would take precautions that mistakes like this don't happen.
My wife and me both have had encounters with LVMPD while carrying never had issues, so obviousley many LEO's in vegas are familiar with CCW holders, in my experiences.

I am not anti-cop. My father was a cop and I have heard his war stories, some are funny others are not. The world we live in today has changed and not for the better. Laws should apply to everyone.
I am not either, my step dad is a deputy in San Bernardino, and my grandpa's brother was elected sheriff of San Diego in 1967

If the police make a mistake, they should man up to it and take steps not to make the same mistake twice. Instead they hide behind department policy.
I agree with this statement, In the military I expected this from my troops

It is very hard to remain unbiased as time goes on and with info, not actuall facts, we have only because of the postponement of the coroners inquest. The dept. is trying to plan their next move and Its making me lean towards some serious wrong doing by the LVMPD. I hope I am wrong, maybee Erik was suffering from P.T.S.D. and was having an medical episode causing erratic behavior. I wan't to be unbiased its just harder and harder everyday. Wha I heard on the police dispatch recordings sounded to me like a "sniper style takedown" thats just what is my personal opinion is at this point in time. Again more facts could change my opinion.
 
Your right Doc. Here is a quote from an article on 8/11/2010,

The department says it has been unable to retrieve surveillance video from Costco's hard drives. Scott's friends believe those tapes will show he did nothing wrong. "There are some very serious questions about the video," said Scott's friend and co-worker Mike Pusateri. "A lot of experts don't buy the comments about that data being lost."

Yet we have video instantly of a woman going berserk over not getting chicken nuggets at McDonald's.
 
BigSlick said:
Scott's friends believe those tapes will show he did nothing wrong.
Click to expand...
Scott's "friends" who were not there and are surely grieving their loss, have no more reason to believe any possible video evidence will prove he did nothing wrong or he did everything wrong. What we do know for a fact is he was causing a disturbance in the store.

Run with that.
 
Cocked _and_Locked said:
Scott's "friends" who were not there and are surely grieving their loss, have no more reason to believe any possible video evidence will prove he did nothing wrong or he did everything wrong. What we do know for a fact is he was causing a disturbance in the store.

Run with that.
Click to expand...

An unfortunate turn of events for the family and very lucky for the police. Now if they can find a way to lose the 911 tapes they should have this case all but locked up.
If the video would have cleared the police it would have made the media rounds three weeks ago. As I have said before I believe this event (contact with the customer in the store) was blown way out of proportion and continued to snowball as the situation unfolded setting the stage for the deadly ending. After all he had a gun so that makes him the bad guy right? Keep in mind that it is possible to do everything right as a person with a concealed carry permit and still end up dead. The one thing you cannot control is what the other person is thinking. That includes little blue haired ladies, untrained security persons and police pumped up on adrenalin responding to a MWAG.
 
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