Encounter with State Police and K9 Today WOW

[Treo]

I'm sorry for your medical problems and I do understand the need for legitimate use of pain medications. However, the statement about taking 90 mg of Morphine and functioning clear headed is without merit in the eyes of the law and just plain common sense. If you are in an accident or discharge a firearm and are drug tested, you will be charged with being impaired.

Are you licensed by your state to practice either medicine or law?

 

[scottbland247]

I'm sorry for your medical problems and I do understand the need for legitimate use of pain medications. However, the statement about taking 90 mg of Morphine and functioning clear headed is without merit in the eyes of the law and just plain common sense. If you are in an accident or discharge a firearm and are drug tested, you will be charged with being impaired.

Are you licensed by your state to practice either medicine or law?

I share the same skepticism as Treo about people qualifications to make statements like that.....but that being said, if you shoot me and I know you are on 1 aspirin a week I would bring up a "raging drug habit" to my attorney

 

[wild eyed willy]

So, EXACTLY which LAW/STATUTE/ORDINANCE did they CLAIM you were breaking? The dogs alerted to the backpack. That was RAS (Reasonable Articulable Suspicion) to detain you for what was in the bag. After they VERIFIED that there was prescription medicine in the bag and that you were the proper person to which that medicine belonged, at that point any RAS that they had of a crime being committed was settled. Everything after that was a clear violation of your 4th amendment rights.

You shouldn't be beating yourself up. You should be seeking action for a violation of your rights.

Why did you tell them about your gun? Were you required to by law?

your absolutly right, the more noise we make even in this minor incident, the safer it makes us all.... Take action.

 

[wild eyed willy]

I share the same skepticism as Treo about people qualifications to make statements like that.....but that being said, if you shoot me and I know you are on 1 aspirin a week I would bring up a "raging drug habit" to my attorney

If he shoots you he'll make sure you talk only to god.. if god want's to forward your message to your attorney, he'll take care of it.

 

[sgtbill]

Well I can see that we have an attorney with us and a pharmacist. I must tell you tho it would be a good idea to check and see what the law states or don't state where I live about your CCW if you are on prescribed medication. I function as well or maybe even better then most people that have a concealed weapons permit. I am very forthright about the meds that I have to take to be able to function and this is the only way that I can function without being in screaming pain 24/7. Trust me if I got to the point that I had trouble functioning I would not carry. After 25 years as a LEO I am not realy a stupid person that would continue to carry if not able to do so.
And yes I have no problem with busting a cap into someone if they need it and the second shot is always to the head. I am a very strong believer in the double tap or even triple tap method of shooting.
Bill

 

[scottbland247]

I would just suggest that there is a reason our society doesn't let the medicated decide if they are functioning properly on their own in cases of firearms

 

[Axeanda45]

I would just suggest that there is a reason our society doesn't let the medicated decide if they are functioning properly on their own in cases of firearms

I would suggest that you stop suggesting.......

Maybe I should turn you in the next time you are on pain medication and try to *Gasp* read a book or something......

 

[scottbland247]

I would just suggest that there is a reason our society doesn't let the medicated decide if they are functioning properly on their own in cases of firearms

I would suggest that you stop suggesting.......

Maybe I should turn you in the next time you are on pain medication and try to *Gasp* read a book or something......

with as many senseless gatsby deaths as we've had lately that is the responsible thing to do

 

[Terminal Lance]

Narcotic pain pills stay in your system for 3-5 days on average so even of they tested your urine that wouldn't mean anything. They were just bustin your balls.

 

[trophyhunter]

Since my original post I have called and, done some research. According to the State Police If your Under the Influence off an Controlled Substance and, Carrying a Concealed Weapon You can be Charged.

They Didnt give me the Penal Law code but said any person who carries a firearm shall be deemed to have given consent to a breath test, and a chemical test of the persons breath, urine or saliva for the purpose of determining the alcoholic or drug content of the persons blood provided that any test is administered at the direction of a police officer having reasonable grounds therefor. No person shall carry a firearm while the persons ability to safely carry such weapon is impaired by the use of any drug either perscribed or taken Illegally.

So on that day The officer could of ordered me to Submit to a Chemical test. What I've learned from this.

point forward I will not take any pain medication while I'am Carrying Concealed or will not have in my possesion my perscription. At my wieght 235lbs. Taking one Hydrocodone 10/325mg pill does not cause me to seem drunk or under the Influence but according to the law I can be charged.god forbid that I ever had to use my weapon while taking my pain meds. I would be in for allot of trouble.its not worth it for me. I'm glad that this happened to me and it played out the way it did.Because it educated me.

In New York State I do believe that one must Inform LEO at point of Contact.That you are armed. I'm still researching that one. I would rather error on the side of caution by Informing LEO that I'm armed

Than for them to notice and be drawn on especially with my Children Around.

 

[pastor t]

I agree with "NavyLCDR" about not allowing the police to investigate you. I heard a cop say the other day that police are trained to get you talking(guilty or innocent) so that they can make notes on your words and twist them into something they can put in "the file" to use against you. He said there is a police motto that goes, "no file...no trial" So get them talking. I have a neighbor that has used animal control and the police to make false complaints against me over the past four years I have lived here in Davenport, IA. They hate that I am a conservative and a Christian. I have often displayed conservative slogans on the windows of my vehicle along with anti-osama...I mean obama slogans and pro 2nd amendment slogans. It really got under their skin and they began to make false complaints against my dog. I have a stack of warnings from animal control. In the past week they have had the police at my house twice accusing me of harassing them. I cooperated with the police and answered their questions and told them my side of things. The first officer told me they could do nothing for me until I have proof. I just put up a privacy fence last week. He told me to get security cameras to get proof. The officer that came last night warned me that he would arrest me and charge me with harassment as they claimed I drove slowly by their house and looked at them and they felt threatened! I said, are you serious!?! He said anything i do that annoys them can get me charged with harassment. He handed me a trespassing notice(they live right next door to me) and walked away.

This will not be the end, but I will not allow the police to harass me as their personal security anymore! They will not speak to me without a lawyer again. I will not answer the smallest question. I'm not sure what more I can do to stop this, but I have been pushed all I am going to be! O and I had my 9 mil on me the whole time and the leos had no clue!

Sorry for so long of a post guys! I am a pastor and lately I feel like too many people have been dumping on me and expecting me to take it because of my position... I'm just tired of taking right now! So I'll try to keep em shorter in the future!

 

[NavyLCDR]

Since my original post I have called and, done some research. According to the State Police If your Under the Influence off an Controlled Substance and, Carrying a Concealed Weapon You can be Charged.

They Didnt give me the Penal Law code but said any person who carries a firearm shall be deemed to have given consent to a breath test, and a chemical test of the persons breath, urine or saliva for the purpose of determining the alcoholic or drug content of the persons blood provided that any test is administered at the direction of a police officer having reasonable grounds therefor. No person shall carry a firearm while the persons ability to safely carry such weapon is impaired by the use of any drug either perscribed or taken Illegally.

So, how do you know they were telling you the truth?

 

[scottbland247]

Send an actual email requesting a wrtitten email response listing statute and code numbers

 

[Doc Mustang]

They Didnt give me the Penal Law code but said any person who carries a firearm shall be deemed to have given consent to a breath test, and a chemical test of the persons breath, urine or saliva for the purpose of determining the alcoholic or drug content of the persons blood provided that any test is administered at the direction of a police officer having reasonable grounds therefor. No person shall carry a firearm while the persons ability to safely carry such weapon is impaired by the use of any drug either perscribed or taken Illegally.

First the information given here is VERY broad. Any Drug? This means they could cite you for carrying under the influence of caffeine from your morning coffee or the soda you had with lunch. They could cite you for carrying under the influence of your blood pressure medication. Likely they mean "controlled substance" rather than "drug". The definition of a controlled substance may vary according to the law. The Controlled substances act (Federal Law) creates 5 Schedules or lists of medications which are defined as controlled substances by the DEA. Shedule I drugs are what we typically think of as "illegal drugs". Schedule II contains drugs like morphine which are strong, addictive but have an accepted medical use in the US. Those drugs are "legal" with a prescription.

Second the information provided to you states that you must be "impaired". The definition of "impaired" could vary as well. Alcohol has specified legal limits. This is not true for other medications. This means that the burden of proof would be on the prosecutor to prove that you were impaired by your medications. This is highly subjective. As I stated earlier it is quite possible to be significantly "impaired" by pain. Judgement, motor control and perception could all be affected by severe, uncontrolled pain. In such a case you could be less "impaired" by taking a prescribed dose of Vicodin.

The prosecutor cannot rely upon "sobriety" tests either as those are specifically designed to test the effects of alcohol. Opiates affect the body in completely different ways. Because of all of the above reasons the police are on very difficult ground. You are engaged in an activity that is legal and taking a legal (but controlled) substance, under the care of a physician. There are no legally defined limits, no meaningful quantitative testing to define or discover those limits, no legally recognized testing for "impairment". All this adds up to a very difficult case for a prosecutor.

This does not mean they cannot charge you.

 

[Treo]

Never, ever take a cop's word for what the law is on a given subject.

 

[Deanimator]

Never, ever take a cop's word for what the law is on a given subject.

I am more surprised when a cop knows the law than I'd be if I saw a Sasquatch walk across Public Square in downtown Cleveland and into the Terminal Tower. Not all cops are ignorant (or disdainful) of the law, but that's where the smart money is.

 

[pastor t]

"Deanimator"I am more surprised when a cop knows the law than I'd be if I saw a Sasquatch walk across Public Square in downtown Cleveland and into the Terminal Tower. Not all cops are ignorant (or disdainful) of the law, but that's where the smart money is.

I agree!

 

[Treo]

I am more surprised when a cop knows the law than I'd be if I saw a Sasquatch walk across Public Square in downtown Cleveland and into the Terminal Tower. Not all cops are ignorant (or disdainful) of the law, but that's where the smart money is.

It's not (IMO) a question of ignorance. Most cops will just tell you what puts them in the best position. With one exception, every cop I have ever met in Colorado has insisted that I must inform them I am carrying a weapon immediately on contact. The exception got out his statute book and looked it up and said no.

 

[Deanimator]

It's not (IMO) a question of ignorance. Most cops will just tell you what puts them in the best position. With one exception, every cop I have ever met in Colorado has insisted that I must inform them I am carrying a weapon immediately on contact. The exception got out his statute book and looked it up and said no.

That's specifically why I intentionally included "disdainful".

 

[fied1k]

Are you detaining me Officer or am I free to go ?

I'm not resisting, but I do not consent to any searches.