Employer ban in a shared building vs. PTC

[dachtera]

I am trying to track down the order of precedence for which item is top of the list.

I have a PTC for my state (and many others as well) My employer has the HQ in a different state (CA), and the employee handbook states no firearms allowed on company property. Now, since this is a shared building where my local office resides, the latter half is null due to share space, however from my understanding, I still am not allowed to carry in the office. The building itself has no ban on the overall property.

In this case, which takes place, my PTC, or employers handbook. It's known at the office that I have PTC, as many of us go out shooting after hours, but it seems pretty stupid that I'm not allowed to have my handgun on me in a location where I spend the majority of my day.

Has anyone else run into this issue? The more I think about it, the more I feel it may not be considering those with a PTC... I have considered asking the HR group, but again, I have not, because I don't want the chance to get a 'mark' on my file as being some gun-toting liability. My better judgement tells me that until I find the correct answer, the rule of "better to ask for forgiveness than permission" may not work to my benefit in this case.

Thanks

 

[wolf_fire]

If your handbook where you work says no firearms on company property and if you carry to work, that seems pretty logical that you have carried your firearm on company property even if they are leasing/renting said property and don't directly own it. Do you tell someone that the the place they rent to live in isn't their "property" under the law when someone tries to break in? If you like your job, and don't want to be dismissed, this would be grounds for dismissal.

Your post was not so clear with this sentence and I'm assuming your company rents this space. Now, since this is a shared building where my local office resides, the latter half is null due to share space, however from my understanding, I still am not allowed to carry in the office. The building itself has no ban on the overall property.

What part are you saying is "null and void"? Are you saying since your company doesn't own the building that you work in (most likely rents or leases it) that then the section in your handbook about carrying on company property does not pertain? If you think that then you are mistaken.

 

[ezkl2230]

In this case, company policy takes precedence over building policy. Unless you have specific permission to carry on property controlled by your company, their policy extends to all properties under their control. You can carry in the rest of building, but not your own office. Now, if you choose to do so any way and your company finds out, be prepared to accept the consequences.

 

[dachtera]

My main question was, does the permit to carry trump the handbook wording.

Point being, kinda stupid that you can't have your gun on you, incase some nutball shows up, and thinking the handbook has overlooked those that are legally permitted to carry. Guess I shall have a chat with HR on this.

 

[wolf_fire]

It depends on what you mean by "trump". The worst legally your company could do is fire you OR if they find you are carrying and ask you to leave and you don't, then you could get charged with defiant trespassing.

If you carry, and don't tell anyone (I'm not recommending this) then it is your little secret, but if you should have to use it, see the sentence that precedes this one.

 

[ezkl2230]

My main question was, does the permit to carry trump the handbook wording.

Point being, kinda stupid that you can't have your gun on you, incase some nutball shows up, and thinking the handbook has overlooked those that are legally permitted to carry. Guess I shall have a chat with HR on this.

I thought the answers you received were pretty clear. Now, you can try to rationalize any way you like, but it doesn't change the fact that your employer has the right to establish and enforce their own policies on properties they control. It really doesn't matter how stupid it may be, but the company handbook trumps your CPL unless they give you permission to carry in their offices - wherever they may be.

 

[dachtera]

Thanks ezkl2230, that's more of what I was looking for.

 

[wolf_fire]

And how did post #2, 3, and 5 not answer that? I guess straight up bluntness was needed. Thanks ezkl.

I also wouldn't recommend talking to HR about it. If your HQ is in CA, your company will have liberal policies and therefore you will put a target on your back. I highly doubt they'll look at you and say, "You're a swell guy, we'll change our policy just for you."

If you think your company's policies are harsh, try being a public school teacher. I'm not allowed to have it in my vehicle where I park if it's on school grounds.

 

[CarryNM]

YOu might try sending an anonymous letter to the HR dept. and say that you had read their handbook, and ask their reasoning. Have a distant friend send it for you, so that they get the response.

 

[JimTh]

You can carry but not on company property. Your PTC trumps absolutely nothing except perhaps your states pre emption. Private property rules are made by the owners or lessees of the private property.

 

[dogshawred]

If you want to carry at work, carry. It is up to you as long as you are willing to accept and pay the consequences for your actions of breaking the rules of your employment.
~
Your employer based in Kalifornia is guided by it's more liberal surroundings as well as liability issues. You will find that they are able to get a better insurance rate for restricting this issue in their employment handbook than they would had they not. Business is about the bottom line and those who crunch the numbers will show that the odd/chance of being placed in a situation where a firearm is need to keep you safe is remote to almost never. On the general rule people go through their entire life without drawing their weapon let alone firing it in defense of their self or others. To them it is a business decision, nothing more.
~
If you don't like the idea of being unarmed at work find another job that allows you to carry. Good Luck.

 

[sixguncowboy]

The part of the building that your employer leases is theirs to control as long as they pay the rent that the owner requires from them and your permit to carry in no way trumps their rules. It's the same if you were visiting somebody's home & they were anti gun and they told you they didn't want you to bring a gun into their home. It doesn't matter if they own or rent the house. It's theirs and they have they say as to what goes on in their home.

I have the same situation. My employer is based right here in Texas and the company handbook specifically bans handguns on company property. However state law says that as a concealed handgun licensee I may keep my handgun in my locked personal vehicle on the company parking lot and the company cannot take any action against me for doing so. However I cannot carry my gun into the building or in a company car. Doing so is grounds for termination.

 

[AppliedPerspective]

Like was stated, the company has the right to enforce whatever rules (within reason) they want as a condition of employment. If you ignore those rules, it's grounds for termination. There was a case recently of a man working at a Shell gas station who wasn't supposed to carry at work, but saved his life by drawing his gun. He got fired, and even after his manager and district supervisor went to bat for him at corporate, he remained fired. If you work in the sort of high stress or cash rich environment that might prompt someone to come in and shoot up the place, I think your personal right to be safe trumps company policy - with the condition that you are willing to accept the consequences for ignoring the rules. If you work in a relatively safe environment, I say the choice is yours, but I'd probably advise towards locking it in your car or something. But any time you strap a gun on, whether at work or out in public, you should be mindful of the potential consequences. If you're not prepared to face them, then maybe you should reconsider your decision to carry.