Element of surprise!


LMAO!!!

BUCKED, BULGED you know what Im saying! All of them looked like this when they saw me----> scared gif | Tumblr the guy in the middle
No... I don't know what you mean to say! I only know what you did say! Please say exactly what you mean (look up the spelling if necessary) because I could never read my exwife's mind and I sure can't read yours either!
 
NOT-SO-NAVY...

READ AGAIN! I said to PREVENT what could be considered as an attack! Not DURING! You keep trying to say DURING...
You can't seem to make up your mind Mr. Not-So-Swift.

"Prevent" means BEFORE something happens. With guns, that would mean drawing PRIOR to an "alleged" attack. In all cases, that would constitute "Brandishing" a gun.
 
"Prevent" means BEFORE something happens. With guns, that would mean drawing PRIOR to an "alleged" attack. In all cases, that would constitute "Brandishing" a gun.

In many States at least. But then again, many States also do not punish brandishing IF used only to prevent an imminent attack.
 
NOTHING CAN STOP AN ATTACKER FROM ATTEMPTING to APPROACH or ATTACK YOU! <---That's where ELEMENT OF SURPRISE COMES IN!
If you APPEAR to be UNARMED and you have to resort to reaching for it OR make a gesture as though you're reaching for it to PREVENT someone from PHYSICALLY ATTACKING YOU!-snip-
If the attack is "imminent" then it is already occurring. The attack is already happening. It is too late to prevent the attack since the attack is.. "imminent".

After all.. one cannot draw their pistol just because some guy "looks" like he might attack... I mean.. should folks draw down on the tattoo'ed biker dude with a scowl on his face because he "looks" so scary? (maybe he is scowling because his biker mamma turned down his amorous advances that morning)... but, in order to fulfill the legal use of a gun for self protection, the guy must actually attack in some manner... not just "look" like he "might" attack.

And if the guy is actually attacking in some manner and the pistol is drawn in response to that attack... then the concealed pistol did NOT prevent the attack but stopped the attack after the pistol was drawn in response to an attack already in progress.

The mythical and completely false super ninja mystical magical "element of surprise" of concealed carry doesn't come into play until after the attack has already started.. therefor it does absolutely NOTHING to prevent an attack.

Now please consider this (and this is the truth about that supposed "element of surprise".....

Scenario #1... A concealed carrier draws his gun from concealment in response to being attacked by a criminal... and the criminal sees the gun.. stops his attack.. and runs away.

Scenario #2... An open carrier doesn't have to draw his gun because a criminal saw the openly carried gun and decided to wait and attack someone who looks like they don't have a gun.

The commonality between the two scenarios? The sight of the gun.. the mere sight of a gun... stopped the attack. With concealed carry it stopped the attack after it started... and with open carry it stopped the attack before it even began.

The question is............ which would YOU prefer? The magical mystical (I'm a bad ass because I have a surprise for the bad guy!) super stealth ninja "element of surprise" after being attacked? Or surprising the criminal with a gun in plain sight before the attack even starts?

Concealed carry has it's advantages under certain circumstances just as open carry has... but the advantages of concealed carry do not include.. the ability to "prevent" an attack.
 
No... I don't know what you mean to say! I only know what you did say! Please say exactly what you mean (look up the spelling if necessary) because I could never read my exwife's mind and I sure can't read yours either!

and a provided picture. did you see the picture so you can VIVIDLY see the expression that I spoke about?
 
LMAO!!!

BUCKED, BULGED you know what Im saying! All of them looked like this when they saw me----> scared gif | Tumblr the guy in the middle

and a provided picture. did you see the picture so you can VIVIDLY see the expression that I spoke about?
Does that picture look like an expression of "fear" to you? To me the guy's expression isn't one of fear but looks a lot like the look of disdain (arrogantly looking down the nose) I've seen on the face of someone else... ummm... oh yes! Obama!
 
I think this argument of the anti Open carry crowd that there is an alleged advantage they call having the "Element of Surprise" due to having a concealed sidearm in an attack is all hyperbole. It's an assumption based on the belief that an individual having failed at the use of situational awareness will have the necessary training and practice to successfully overcome the disadvantage of facing an armed hostile at close range simply because they have a .380/.38 in their pocket.

"Owning a handgun doesn't make you armed any more than owning a guitar makes you a musician." - Jeff Cooper
 
So you did click on the link to get the exact look right?
Yep, I did. I got misled by the photo.... now... I wasn't there but your example still appears to be more surprise than fear. But because I wasn't there I'll simply believe your assessment of the situation.

Regardless... the incident still was a plus for open carry since those folks discovered there is nothing to fear from an ordinary guy (you are, and appear as, an ordinary guy I hope? :biggrin:) openly carrying a gun.
 
Yep, I did. I got misled by the photo.... now... I wasn't there but your example still appears to be more surprise than fear. But because I wasn't there I'll simply believe your assessment of the situation.

Regardless... the incident still was a plus for open carry since those folks discovered there is nothing to fear from an ordinary guy (you are, and appear as, an ordinary guy I hope? :biggrin:) openly carrying a gun.

MASSIVE Respect Bikenut. <:^)
 
There is something the proponents of the "element of surprise" do not understand.... the advantage of the "element of surprise" is all in favor of the criminal because the concealed carriers is going to be "surprised" that he is being attacked and now it is necessary to respond to an attack already in progress....

Food for thought for those who disparage open carry and think concealed carry is some kind of mystical super ninja "element of surprise" magical spell...

Scenario #1...

A bad guy attacks a concealed carrier and the concealed carrier whips out his "element of surprise" .. the bad guy sees the gun, stops the attack, and runs away...

Scenario #2...

A bad guy is contemplating attacking but sees an open carried gun.... calls off his attack ... and nothing happens.

What is the commonality between the two scenarios?

When the bad guy saw a gun he stopped his attack... but...

With concealed carry the attack is stopped after it starts...

and..

With open carry the attack is stopped before it even begins.

Enjoy reading your posts Bikernut, but have a question. Does not your attitude and awareness also prevent the attack? Working in the less desireable sections of the D, I can say I have not had any problems but think a lot of it is from not 'looking like a victim'.


Just because no one says anything doesn't mean that they don't notice it.
The whole purpose of concealment is to APPEAR as if there's NOTHING on your person... Not to have a bulge showing under your shirt. DRESS AROUND YOUR FIREARM!

It's different from where I'm from. If you're not a Police Officer, Security Guard, ATF, CIA, FBI or Border Patrol Agent who USUALLY carries it in plain sight, then it usually brings negative attention to you from either "OH MY GOD! HE's GOT A GUN!" to the police stopping and harassing you or someone might be plotting on you to try to take it off your waist!(in very few cases will the last situation happen) It's BEST to keep it concealed to keep the negative attention from off of you as well as not giving people the "UP's" on you.


You keep talking about MI and problems with open carry, but where is that? Bikernut is from Saginaw, I work in the D, Flint and Lansing areas and have not experienced the problems you portray. Perhaps I am missing something?

AND FYI, I carry concealed because of my work environment dictating concealed is the way to go. Have OC'd but feel it is better to consistently carry the same way so if the situation arises, muscle memory will kick in and my reactions will be as I practiced, smooth and controlled.
 
Enjoy reading your posts Bikernut, but have a question. Does not your attitude and awareness also prevent the attack? Working in the less desireable sections of the D, I can say I have not had any problems but think a lot of it is from not 'looking like a victim'.

Yes, I believe a person's demeanor can cause a criminal to decide to choose a different "victim" ... one that appears unaware of what's going on around them... or appears to be timid, weak, and defenseless. But a person openly carrying a sidearm definitely does not appear to be timid, weak, or defenseless.


Originally Posted by Sir Swiftus Funkellwerk View Post
Just because no one says anything doesn't mean that they don't notice it.
The whole purpose of concealment is to APPEAR as if there's NOTHING on your person... Not to have a bulge showing under your shirt. DRESS AROUND YOUR FIREARM!

It's different from where I'm from. If you're not a Police Officer, Security Guard, ATF, CIA, FBI or Border Patrol Agent who USUALLY carries it in plain sight, then it usually brings negative attention to you from either "OH MY GOD! HE's GOT A GUN!" to the police stopping and harassing you or someone might be plotting on you to try to take it off your waist!(in very few cases will the last situation happen) It's BEST to keep it concealed to keep the negative attention from off of you as well as not giving people the "UP's" on you.

You keep talking about MI and problems with open carry, but where is that? Bikernut is from Saginaw, I work in the D, Flint and Lansing areas and have not experienced the problems you portray. Perhaps I am missing something?

AND FYI, I carry concealed because of my work environment dictating concealed is the way to go. Have OC'd but feel it is better to consistently carry the same way so if the situation arises, muscle memory will kick in and my reactions will be as I practiced, smooth and controlled.
I also believe in the KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid) principle so my sidearm is always in the same place in the same holster that the retention works the same way... and my back up gun is always in the same pocket. It would be bad to be confronted by a criminal and reach for a gun that isn't there because I decided to carry it somewhere else that day.
 

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