Easier for non-US Citizens to buy guns!
- Thread starter NavyLCDR
- Start date
WB9IIE
Master of Poverty Knob
When are we, as citizens of the United States, going to challenge our government for giving more rights to ALIENS? What I read above does not distinguish between legal and illegal aliens, just says aliens. I am about ready to secede from the Union and establish my own Sovereignty right here at POVERTY KNOB. It will not be a Democratic Republic, but rather a Benevolent Dictatorship. Firearm ownership and possession will be a requirement for citizenship, and citizenship applications will be screened by way of the SHREDDER!
The time is comming to have the chance to get rid of some weak kneed progressive liberals that have sold their souls to special interest and/or political dictates. Re-elect them and get more of the same. In which case stop complaining. Boot them out and take a chance on new blood. The choise is yours. If you don't vote, in my opinion, your aren't interested in what government does, then don't complain about the outcome.
Amazing comments.... simply amazing. But I didn't expect anything different from most on this forum. I originally saw this post here:
BATFE removing resident alien 90 day docs - THR
Different group of people over there, for sure. They are actually happy to see LESS gun control by the government.
BATFE removing resident alien 90 day docs - THR
Different group of people over there, for sure. They are actually happy to see LESS gun control by the government.
I'm all for less gun control for US citizens but not for non-citizens.
InspectorK
New member
I agree with WB9IIE the "Master of Poverty Knob." It is long over-due for our government to stop giving aliens and especially ILLEGAL aliens more rights and free services than they give us citizens of this great country. No wonder our National Debt is so high! We citizens are having to pay for all of those rights that the aliens have not earned.
1. The subject of the BATFE letter is legal resident aliens who are here on immigrant type visas. They hold just as many jobs as citizens do and pay just as many taxes as citizens do.
2. The only thing the DOJ ruling is changing is a 90 day waiting period for legal resident aliens. Nothing else. It is still just as legal for them to purchase firearms as it ever was before - except now there is no ridiculous and useless 90 day proof of residency requirement.
3. This country was founded by a group of felons.
4. Likely, the only reason the group of felons that founded this country were not illegal aliens is due to the fact there was no Federal government established with the associated immigration laws.
5. We have the right to keep and bear arms due to a provision written in the Constitution by either the alien felons themselves or by direct descendents of the alien felons.
6. When those alien felons came to America, they did so because they believed that free men had certain inalienable rights granted to them by God due to their status as free men, not due to citizenship and they did not believe that government had the authority to deny those rights to any free man.
7. Most of us are US Citizens only because we were born here. Very few of us have done a damn thing to "earn" US Citizenship. The same percentage of legal resident aliens are fulfilling exactly the same responsibilities that we are as citizens - holding down jobs, paying taxes and serving in the US military.
8. The resident legal alien has done more to establish their legal residency here than most of us have. They have complied with the application process and passed a background check. Most of us established legal citizen status simply by the luck of being born here.
9. Self defense is a human right - not merely a right due to citizenship.
10. How many of the same people who whine about non-citizens having rights also whine about not being able to take a firearm into Canada without jumping through all the legal hoops required by the Canadian government? How many of the same people who whine about non-citizens having rights would enjoy traveling to a foreign country on vacation if they knew they had no basic rights in that country, such as a right to not be arrested at the whim of police without evidence and conviction without a trial? Would you not whine if you were vacationing anywhere outside the US and police simply arrested you and put you in jail because you were not a citizen of that country? Why is the right to self defense any less than the basic human right to be free from arrest for doing nothing wrong?
2. The only thing the DOJ ruling is changing is a 90 day waiting period for legal resident aliens. Nothing else. It is still just as legal for them to purchase firearms as it ever was before - except now there is no ridiculous and useless 90 day proof of residency requirement.
3. This country was founded by a group of felons.
4. Likely, the only reason the group of felons that founded this country were not illegal aliens is due to the fact there was no Federal government established with the associated immigration laws.
5. We have the right to keep and bear arms due to a provision written in the Constitution by either the alien felons themselves or by direct descendents of the alien felons.
6. When those alien felons came to America, they did so because they believed that free men had certain inalienable rights granted to them by God due to their status as free men, not due to citizenship and they did not believe that government had the authority to deny those rights to any free man.
7. Most of us are US Citizens only because we were born here. Very few of us have done a damn thing to "earn" US Citizenship. The same percentage of legal resident aliens are fulfilling exactly the same responsibilities that we are as citizens - holding down jobs, paying taxes and serving in the US military.
8. The resident legal alien has done more to establish their legal residency here than most of us have. They have complied with the application process and passed a background check. Most of us established legal citizen status simply by the luck of being born here.
9. Self defense is a human right - not merely a right due to citizenship.
10. How many of the same people who whine about non-citizens having rights also whine about not being able to take a firearm into Canada without jumping through all the legal hoops required by the Canadian government? How many of the same people who whine about non-citizens having rights would enjoy traveling to a foreign country on vacation if they knew they had no basic rights in that country, such as a right to not be arrested at the whim of police without evidence and conviction without a trial? Would you not whine if you were vacationing anywhere outside the US and police simply arrested you and put you in jail because you were not a citizen of that country? Why is the right to self defense any less than the basic human right to be free from arrest for doing nothing wrong?
I will continue to whine. If you want the rights afforded US Citizens, then become one. Canada doesn't like guns and has it's own laws regarding them, honor them or pay the price. Travel in another country and your subject to there laws or lack of them. Ever heard of Iran. Just my opinion. Doesn't mean much but that's it. Merry Christmas all.
I'm with navy lcdr
im a permanent resident myself. We moved to a america for a better life just like george washington and his people did. Not like some borned here citizen who doesn't care for anyone at all. You guys are nothing less than disgracing your own father's beliefs. Atleast try to understand our pain just as much as you if you are a non citizen. Stop being so arrogant about things seriously. I heard of kids in american that shoot real guns at 10 years old. Just because they are citizens and have their parents the same, they could do whatever they want? We non citizen, most of us, haven't even touch a gun, or even think of buying one. Stop being selfish please, and I think this country might be better.
Second we do pay as much taxes and bills, we are not eating of the government or scamming them. We do our jobs and go home without doing anything illegal. What does citizens do that we do not do? Whine allot is right.
About the whining, we don't whine, we accept the fact we are non citizen or permanent resident, not illegal alien. We try to present papers for everything, more than a us citizen could ever present as proof in their whole life. We are hard worker and I believe we should get what we aim for. Us citizen all you do is present your driving license everywhere and its all set. Sometimes my parents have to go back to the house 2 to 3 times just to get all of papers right. I don't think this makes us unequal to true citizen just because you are born here without ever taking a test? Even if you do, I don't think you put as much brain into it anyways, because you don't care for anyone, everything came easy for you, you don't appreciate it. Now go kill deers like all of you jerks do, like its a toy or game, without ever thinking about anyone, animals are as much illegal aliens to you too i bet.
im a permanent resident myself. We moved to a america for a better life just like george washington and his people did. Not like some borned here citizen who doesn't care for anyone at all. You guys are nothing less than disgracing your own father's beliefs. Atleast try to understand our pain just as much as you if you are a non citizen. Stop being so arrogant about things seriously. I heard of kids in american that shoot real guns at 10 years old. Just because they are citizens and have their parents the same, they could do whatever they want? We non citizen, most of us, haven't even touch a gun, or even think of buying one. Stop being selfish please, and I think this country might be better.
Second we do pay as much taxes and bills, we are not eating of the government or scamming them. We do our jobs and go home without doing anything illegal. What does citizens do that we do not do? Whine allot is right.
About the whining, we don't whine, we accept the fact we are non citizen or permanent resident, not illegal alien. We try to present papers for everything, more than a us citizen could ever present as proof in their whole life. We are hard worker and I believe we should get what we aim for. Us citizen all you do is present your driving license everywhere and its all set. Sometimes my parents have to go back to the house 2 to 3 times just to get all of papers right. I don't think this makes us unequal to true citizen just because you are born here without ever taking a test? Even if you do, I don't think you put as much brain into it anyways, because you don't care for anyone, everything came easy for you, you don't appreciate it. Now go kill deers like all of you jerks do, like its a toy or game, without ever thinking about anyone, animals are as much illegal aliens to you too i bet.
Woody1960
New member
IMO If your not an American citizen you dont get the same rights as one,it's that simple.If you dont like it, to bad, go back to your own country and change "your" laws.Dont come here asking us to change ours for you! Our country has been around for over 2oo years now. Other countries have seen our laws and what we do here for a long time."plenty of time to fight for your own rights in your own country" Fix your own mess if you want to be more like us instead of coming here and asking us for our rights and freedoms when your not one of us!
The Constitution does not grant rights to American citizens only. The Constitution protects rights possessed by all persons from infringement by the US Government. Our founding fathers were FOREIGNERS who came to America fleeing from a government they felt were oppressing their rights to an unacceptable level. Our founding fathers did not "fix their own mess." They left "their mess" and came to America and founded this country in the process.
If you don't like the fact that the US Constitution protects the rights possessed by all persons, rights which preexist both the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence, than maybe it is you who should seek residence in a different country.
BluesStringer
Les Brers
Hao, I'm totally on yours and Navy's side here, but really, you need to calm down a bit. Navy is doing a fine job of educating people about what the story he posted in the OP was meant to convey. Citizens can have mistaken first impressions just like anyone else, and I really think that's all you're seeing here.
I must say, as I was reading the OP I was surprised to realize that I was questioning what was wrong with the DOJ's actions. I have a knee-jerk distrust of anything that Eric Holder puts his hands on, just like some here have a knee-jerk reaction to immigrants, even of the legal variety. I would suggest to those who say that 2nd Amendment rights should be limited or denied legal immigrants until such time as they attain their citizenship, that they research and find out what rights, if any, are denied legal residents prior to taking the citizenship oath. I think you'll find that there's only one, and it's questionable whether it is really a *right* or not, but I'm referring to voting. Only citizens can vote, but all other rights that are afforded citizens are likewise afforded legal residents, and that's true whether they are working towards their citizenship or not. Should they be denied the right of free speech? Peaceable assembly? Religious practices? Should they be required to incriminate themselves when suspected or accused of a crime? Should they not have the right to an attorney? Are cops allowed to search them and/or seize their property simply by virtue of their non-citizen immigration status? If these examples seem ridiculous to anyone, it's because they are, just like denying legal residents the right of self defense is ridiculous too.
I understand the temptation to react negatively to a story where Holder's DOJ is making it easier for immigrants to buy/own/use guns in this country. Both Holder et al and immigration are extremely hot-button issues. But I think if you look at this one objectively, and juxtapose immigrants' 2A rights with how all other rights are extended to them, you'll see that this is one of the few times that DOJ and immigrants are in the right.
Blues
I must say, as I was reading the OP I was surprised to realize that I was questioning what was wrong with the DOJ's actions. I have a knee-jerk distrust of anything that Eric Holder puts his hands on, just like some here have a knee-jerk reaction to immigrants, even of the legal variety. I would suggest to those who say that 2nd Amendment rights should be limited or denied legal immigrants until such time as they attain their citizenship, that they research and find out what rights, if any, are denied legal residents prior to taking the citizenship oath. I think you'll find that there's only one, and it's questionable whether it is really a *right* or not, but I'm referring to voting. Only citizens can vote, but all other rights that are afforded citizens are likewise afforded legal residents, and that's true whether they are working towards their citizenship or not. Should they be denied the right of free speech? Peaceable assembly? Religious practices? Should they be required to incriminate themselves when suspected or accused of a crime? Should they not have the right to an attorney? Are cops allowed to search them and/or seize their property simply by virtue of their non-citizen immigration status? If these examples seem ridiculous to anyone, it's because they are, just like denying legal residents the right of self defense is ridiculous too.
I understand the temptation to react negatively to a story where Holder's DOJ is making it easier for immigrants to buy/own/use guns in this country. Both Holder et al and immigration are extremely hot-button issues. But I think if you look at this one objectively, and juxtapose immigrants' 2A rights with how all other rights are extended to them, you'll see that this is one of the few times that DOJ and immigrants are in the right.
Blues
I must respectfully disagree. I think we are seeing some people expressing opinions that are much deeper than simply assuming all non-citizens are illegal aliens.
BluesStringer
Les Brers
You might be right Navy, but I tend to give the benefit of the doubt until it's shown to be misplaced. I'll cede the possibility that you have more history with the posters we're critiquing here, so maybe you know something I don't, but I do think an immigrant newcomer who kind of flew off the handle should consider that their positions were just ill-informed rather than being deserving of a tirade. YMMV.
Blues
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