Drawing your firearm to scare away a threat?

[S&WM&P40]

A friend pointed to some FBI study(haven't been able to find it myself.) He claims the study shows that just by making the motion of drawing a firearm, or making a motion that you have one, or drawing your firearm. It stops crime and scares away bad guys, I'm not sure of he thinks this is a good idea of bad.

I told him my feeling is I only draw my firearm if my life, loved one or some third party's life is in danger. My feeling is that if the gun has to come out then It's getting used. I don't carry it to scare away bad guys.

I asked him what he would do next if drawing it didn't work, when the unarmed person keeps coming at you. This time to steal your firearm, you going to shoot an unarmed person? Holster the firearm and get in a hand to hand fight? He didn't have an answer.

This topic came up after talking about (Nutfancy) and how many less lethal weapoms he owns and carrys with him(Taser,Mace,baton etc.)

I made the point that carrying a less lethal is a good idea as you can't use your gun for every jackass you in counter. But I feel the number one goal as a concealed carrier is to avoid problems and be the bigger person.

Am I alone in this feeling, if drawing to scare someone way a gpod idea?

 

[TrapperBob]

If I draw my firearm and it scares away the bad guy before I shoot him (or her), that's great, but I'm not going to draw my firearm without the intention of using it. Drawing my weapon is a last resort, and if I get to the point where I feel it is necessary to draw, that means its at the point where I feel its necessary to shoot. mho

 

[ezkl2230]

According to a study conducted by Gary Kleck, lawful firearm owners deploy their firearms in lawful self defense between 1million and 2 million times each year; this number is considered to be solid enough that it was incorporated into Obama's gun violence study and helped take the wind out of the sails of his gun control scheme. In 98% of cases, the mere display of a firearm was enough to de-escalate the situation.

Of course, you never draw a firearm merely in the hope that it will scare a bad guy away - you draw it with the intent to USE it. You can always de-escalate if the situation demands it; drawing a firearm doesn't automatically mean firing it. Escalating from a mere show of force to actual intent to USE force, on the other hand, can be dangerous to you. THAT is the kind of situation the anti's love to throw in our faces, the statistically very rare kind in which the bad guy is able to take away the owner's gun and use it against them. I occasionally have customers looking for firearms tell me that their intent is just to scare a potential bad guy, that they don't really think they would be able to pull the trigger; I tell them to stay away from firearms.

 

[JimTh]

Beware of "brandishing". Simply because someone is getting all lathered up over you or someone you may be with May not be sufficient reason to pull out a gun. The retired cop in Florida is learning the hard way that you cannot shoot someone for throwing popcorn at you. Just making a motion of someone drawing a gun could be considered brandishing if the other person has reason to believe you intend to shoot them. I think the bottom line is that if your buddy is in a situation where he thinks he needs a firearm then he should pull out a firearm. Tell him not to read the other guys mind to figure out whether he is up to no good, but instead pay attention to his actions. He can not draw a weapon unless he thinks his or someone else's life and/or health are in danger. If he just wants to fake it he may not have enough time to actually draw a weapon if the bad guy is still advancing and he is just pointing a finger at him. I am not a subscriber to less than lethal force with bad guys. Cops have a hell of a hard time quite often when deploying less than lethal force therefore I would be at a tremendous disadvantage trying to taser some nut job.

 

[apvbguy]

your gun is NOT a tool of intimidation and using it to intimidate others is a misuse of the tool

 

[NavyLCDR]

I fail to see why this debate comes up two or three times per month. I just can't understand why some people make it so complicated. If someone's life is in danger, I will draw my gun prepared to fire it. If I see that the threat goes away at any time before I pull the trigger, than I don't pull the trigger. How hard is that?

 

[NewlyEnthused]

I have heard of cases in SC (not sure if it is the same in other states) that if you flash, brandish, draw, etc to scare without another gun in sight (or other obvious and perceived threat), that you can be charged with assault with deadly weapon. I was told that if you do show or draw, be the first one to call 911 so they have your reason for drawing rather than the bad guys allegation that you started it.

 

[S&W645]

Florida is in the process of trying to remove any charges being placed after the threatened use of legal deadly force. It made it thru one committee already on a vote of 12 to 1. Another hearing is set for today. http://www.myfloridahouse.gov/Secti...ocumentType=Bill&BillNumber=0089&Session=2014

 

[Eidolon]

According to a study conducted by Gary Kleck, lawful firearm owners deploy their firearms in lawful self defense between an estimated 1million and 2 million times each year; this number which was extrapolated from a base group of 5000 people who were willing to answer a phone survey is considered to be solid enough that it was incorporated into Obama's gun violence study and helped take the wind out of the sails of his gun control scheme. In 98% of cases, the mere display of a firearm was enough to de-escalate the situation.

Added some additional information in bold

 

[ezkl2230]

Added some additional information in bold

Yes, we get it. The final estimate was achieved using current, accepted, and validated statistical methodology. Again, the data was considered to be solid enough that the Institute of Medicine and the National Research Council incorporated it into the report commissioned by Obama as one of his 23 executive actions entitled, RESEARCH TO REDUCE THE THREAT OF FIREARM-RELATED VIOLENCE The study, as it turns out, did NOT confirm the need for further gun control.

 

[Seamsealer]

I have posted this before, time to read it again.

Street robberies and you - The Basics - AR15.COM

 

[SR9]

Be careful out there. In some states it is a felony to use a gun to intimidate another person. Even if you have a permit.

 

[mappow]

I fail to see why this debate comes up two or three times per month. I just can't understand why some people make it so complicated. If someone's life is in danger, I will draw my gun prepared to fire it. If I see that the threat goes away at any time before I pull the trigger, than I don't pull the trigger. How hard is that?

With the exception of extreme conditions unfolding, If I have to draw I shoot. Two round bursts, evaluate and repeat if necessary to remove the threat. I have been trained in take down procedures and fully qualified. BUT........ I'm a civilian now and with the rare exception if I have to break leather there will be rounds down range. I'm not going to second guess myself in that 10th of a second.

 

[wolf_fire]

With the exception of extreme conditions unfolding, If I have to draw I shoot. Two round bursts, evaluate and repeat if necessary to remove the threat. I have been trained in take down procedures and fully qualified. BUT........ I'm a civilian now and with the rare exception if I have to break leather there will be rounds down range. I'm not going to second guess myself in that 10th of a second.

Ok, let's visit this scenario. A man with a knife comes at you, you draw, he drops the knife as he sees you draw... if you have time to not pull the trigger, you will anyway?

We should be able to control ourselves from the pulling the trigger if the threat dissolves as we are drawing. If the threat continues as you are drawing, absolutely, stop the threat.

If there is no threat (as the OP asked), then absolutely do not pull out your firearm.

 

[NavyLCDR]

With the exception of extreme conditions unfolding, If I have to draw I shoot. Two round bursts, evaluate and repeat if necessary to remove the threat. I have been trained in take down procedures and fully qualified. BUT........ I'm a civilian now and with the rare exception if I have to break leather there will be rounds down range. I'm not going to second guess myself in that 10th of a second.

Not always the smartest thing to do.... but it's your life.

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2014/02/property_owner_charged_after_s.html

When the threat is over, stop shooting - and that includes not shooting at all if the threat is over before the first shot is fired.

 

[Stan45]

If you are in imminent danger of your life and you make the decision to draw. I practice this draw from concealment with a double tap in under 1.5 seconds.
From the time I go, there is not much time to see much changing, my eyes are changing focus to the front sight.
I'm not pulling my gun and waiting see the bad guys reaction. I'm pulling the gun because I fear death or loss of limb.

 

[ezkl2230]

Ok, let's visit this scenario. A man with a knife comes at you, you draw, he drops the knife as he sees you draw... if you have time to not pull the trigger, you will anyway?

We should be able to control ourselves from the pulling the trigger if the threat dissolves as we are drawing. If the threat continues as you are drawing, absolutely, stop the threat.

If there is no threat (as the OP asked), then absolutely do not pull out your firearm.

A situation very similar to this scenario took place in Kent County, MI, a year or two back. The knife carrier didn't drop his knife, but the CPL carrier forced him to back off without firing a shot and was able to retreat after deploying his firearm; the knife carrier was arrested and is in jail for the next 35 years. Unfortunately, the link to the story no longer works.

 

[apvbguy]

A situation very similar to this scenario took place in Kent County, MI, a year or two back. The knife carrier didn't drop his knife, but the CPL carrier forced him to back off without firing a shot and was able to retreat after deploying his firearm; the knife carrier was arrested and is in jail for the next 35 years. Unfortunately, the link to the story no longer works.

what a nice outcome, however what that person did was IMHO extremely foolish and the guy is lucky that he wasn't cut or killed. if someone with a knife in their hand comes within striking distance they are not getting warned away......

 

[Bikenut]

Originally Posted by ezkl2230 View Post
A situation very similar to this scenario took place in Kent County, MI, a year or two back. The knife carrier didn't drop his knife, but the CPL carrier forced him to back off without firing a shot and was able to retreat after deploying his firearm; the knife carrier was arrested and is in jail for the next 35 years. Unfortunately, the link to the story no longer works.

what a nice outcome, however what that person did was IMHO extremely foolish and the guy is lucky that he wasn't cut or killed. if someone with a knife in their hand comes within striking distance they are not getting warned away......

I wasn't there so I am only speculating...

It is possible the CPL holder was observant and aware of many nuances that spoke of the knife wielder's determination, or lack thereof, to finish his assault and it was that which caused the CPL holder to not fire.

And, in my opinion, that awareness.. that ability to use the brain instead of just going with trained in repetitive motions... is what folks are trying to explain when they say that just because a person has decided there is a need to draw and fire they still have the option to NOT FIRE if circumstances/nuances change in that 1 or 2 seconds it takes to bring the gun into the situation.

Also... those who have been in a draw/fire situation know about a thing called "time dilation" where it seems that time stretches so there is time to make the decision to draw and fire and then decide not to fire by the time the gun is out/pointed.

 

[Eidolon]

I wasn't there so I am only speculating...

It is possible the CPL holder was observant and aware of many nuances that spoke of the knife wielder's determination, or lack thereof, to finish his assault and it was that which caused the CPL holder to not fire.

And, in my opinion, that awareness.. that ability to use the brain instead of just going with trained in repetitive motions... is what folks are trying to explain when they say that just because a person has decided there is a need to draw and fire they still have the option to NOT FIRE if circumstances/nuances change in that 1 or 2 seconds it takes to bring the gun into the situation.

Also... those who have been in a draw/fire situation know about a thing called "time dilation" where it seems that time stretches so there is time to make the decision to draw and fire and then decide not to fire by the time the gun is out/pointed.

I wasn't there either but I will say that had the guy with the knife taken one step towards me after the gun came out I would have shot