Double Taps


johioss

New member
Ok so quick question for you all you long-time tactical shooters and CCW guys. I've shot guns for sporting purposes for a long time but never trained with them for defensive purposes. I would like any advice you have to give on training to shoot in tactical situations. Specifically double taps and how to keep the second shot quick and still on target. Thoughts?

(Oh and FYI, the range I shoot at is run by the parks dept. and is monitored so I can't simulate alot things with live fire)
 

HK4U

New member
If you train over and over to shoot Dbl taps in a real sitution when your life is on the line you may shoot twice and stop. I train to keep shooting until I am empty and have nothing else to shoot or the threat is no longer.
 

PascalFleischman

New member
Ok so quick question for you all you long-time tactical shooters and CCW guys. I've shot guns for sporting purposes for a long time but never trained with them for defensive purposes. I would like any advice you have to give on training to shoot in tactical situations. Specifically double taps and how to keep the second shot quick and still on target. Thoughts?

(Oh and FYI, the range I shoot at is run by the parks dept. and is monitored so I can't simulate alot things with live fire)

I can't draw & fire at my range, either. However, I do simulate a draw by holding the gun by my side as if I am drawing. Then I come up & double-tap. Hit the decocker, and run through about 6 magazines doing that. At the house, MAKE SURE YOUR GUN IS UNLOADED, and practice drawing & dry firing at a mirror.
 

Jay

New member
You're talking about two separate actions that can be mastered independently , and then melded together........

1. Draw and presentation..... obviously unload the firearm, and use the firearm, holster, and belt you will be using all the time. Start slowly..... uncomfortably slow..... speed will come with repetition.

2. The actual double-tap.......

fire one round and slowly return the firearm to the position that replicates the original sight picture........ second shot. No more than one mag or cylinder full at a time. Your arms usually aren't used to being held out there very long. As I said, don't get in a hurry with the second shot. Speed will come with repetition.

and..... when/if you change holsters, or firearms, you get to start all over again....... your muscle memory doesn't like new wrinkles....... :icon_wink:

Video......... YouTube - How to shoot a "double tap".
 
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Double taps take a while to get controlled enought to have two solid hits close to each other and fast. I started out with two controlled pairs...

With two controlled pairs you grab a sight picture, ie everything lined up with focus on the front sight the target and back sights fuzzy, you then take your shot withy typical trigger control. As the slide has completed is cylce and has come back into battery your finger should, while with contact of the trigger, move enough forward to reset the trigger. You then resight you picture and take the second shot. I would practice this until you get fairly fast with it. There is always some argument over targeting with a double tap.

The two classes of thought deal with either no sight picture on the second shot or a flash sight picture. With the first, you sight up with the first shot then follow through with second shot as soon as the gun comes back to rest. You'll find that after lots of practice with controlled pairs this actually with get you fairly accurate with your shots. However, I found it best to follow the second which is a flash sight picture. As your gun retruns down after the first shot, you start your squeeze towards break focusing only on the front sight overshadowing the target and back sights. With practice the two shots come quickly and fairly accurate. I'm no wizard at it, but this is what got me better at dbl taps. :)
 
E

echo_5

Guest
Double taps take a while to get controlled enought to have two solid hits close to each other and fast. I started out with two controlled pairs...

With two controlled pairs you grab a sight picture, ie everything lined up with focus on the front sight the target and back sights fuzzy, you then take your shot withy typical trigger control. As the slide has completed is cylce and has come back into battery your finger should, while with contact of the trigger, move enough forward to reset the trigger. You then resight you picture and take the second shot. I would practice this until you get fairly fast with it. There is always some argument over targeting with a double tap.

The two classes of thought deal with either no sight picture on the second shot or a flash sight picture. With the first, you sight up with the first shot then follow through with second shot as soon as the gun comes back to rest. You'll find that after lots of practice with controlled pairs this actually with get you fairly accurate with your shots. However, I found it best to follow the second which is a flash sight picture. As your gun retruns down after the first shot, you start your squeeze towards break focusing only on the front sight overshadowing the target and back sights. With practice the two shots come quickly and fairly accurate. I'm no wizard at it, but this is what got me better at dbl taps. :)

+1

there's "controlled pairs"; two sight pictures, two shots
and "double taps" or "hammer pairs"; one sight picture, two shots

the key to accurate "doubles", after you've mastered the basics, is grip strength. The benefit of a properly executed double tap is extraordinary.

Shot placement of the first round is critical. Having the impact of the second shot be five inches from the first is more beneficial than having it next to the first.

Stopping power is the result of hydrostasis in the body; Imagine a cone-shaped shockwave vortexing through the body. A subsequent shot in the same place,in effect, just reams the original damage channel. A second GSW 4-5 inches from the original seals the deal, assuming a JHP in .380 and up.

Start from a low ready. Squeeze the grip as hard as you can while still retaining control. Raise up and let two loose. Search and assess. Return to low ready. Repeat as needed.

Link Removed
keep thumbs down! not like my pic
 
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David E

New member
With all due respect, the terms seem to be confused.

A "double tap" does not involve only one sight picture. There is the first one and the second "flash" sight picture. This is to confirm the sights are where you think they are, not to adjust them for the second shot. That would be more of a "controlled pair."

A "Hammer" is the only technique where one sight picture is used for two shots.

Gripping the gun "as hard as you can" is contrary to what the top shooters do.

The key to good, accurate double taps isn't how hard you grip the gun, but how well and how fast your technique allows the gun to return to the same place it was when you fired the first shot.

.
 
Like I said earlier, "There is always some argument over targeting with a double tap." I've seen the terms applied the way echo_5 said and also the way David E said. I've have people whose best approach to double taps is a hard grip, some it was perfect trigger control, others perfect breathing technique. As with all shooting, you should have a bit of everything, but one technique or way of shooting works better for one than another. My advice would be to try various methods and not stick to a single one until you find one that works personally for YOU. Just my 8 and half cents. :)
 

David E

New member
I submit that since Jeff Cooper is the originator of the term, "Double Tap" that it's only proper to utilize his definition of it, which is two, distinct sight pictures, the second of which is the "flash sight picture" mentioned previously.

.
 

David E

New member
I've have people whose best approach to double taps is a hard grip, some it was perfect trigger control, others perfect breathing technique. As with all shooting, you should have a bit of everything,.... :)

There are many ways to shoot a handgun. Some of them are even good ways, but a great many more clearly are not the best ways to shoot a handgun.

But unless one sees a truly skilled shooter in action, one may think that their way IS the best way........and never know different.

The higher you go in skill level, the less variance you'll see in shooting techniques. Why? Because top level shooters use the techniques that work best. You can't use a sub-standard technique executed flawlessly against a shooter that's using a better technique flawlessly.

My primary interest in handgun shooting revolves around putting shots on target fast. What works in slow-fire may be interesting, and some elements may transfer over, but you can have crappy technique executed well in slow-fire and never know that it is, after all, a crappy technique.

For example, if your techinque doesn't address recoil recovery, then shooting slow-fire won't reveal that important fact.

.
 
E

echo_5

Guest
I submit that since Jeff Cooper is the originator of the term, "Double Tap" that it's only proper to utilize his definition of it, which is two, distinct sight pictures, the second of which is the "flash sight picture" mentioned previously.

.

I stand corrected. I was taught and have practiced "hammer pairs" for years; being told it was a "double tap". As for technique, a hard grip is where it's at. This method carries over to all other handgun platforms. I currently shoot a polymer frame 40S&W with a stiff trigger. You gotta man up to get two FAST and ACCURATE shots. A soft grip and steady trigger finger may work on a steel frame 9mm with a linear trigger.

-my $.02
 

David E

New member
As for technique, a hard grip is where it's at. This method carries over to all other handgun platforms. I currently shoot a polymer frame 40S&W with a stiff trigger. You gotta man up to get two FAST and ACCURATE shots.

So..........how fast can you do that? The time between shots is.... ?

I mean, in real time, not a speculative assessment.

BTW, I love your tag line !

.
 

festus

God Bless Our Troops!!!
just my two cents

The first time I was trained on the M-9 it was slow fire every round in the center of mass...dominus ominus you may now carry a 9mm on duty.

The second time I qualified with the Berretta it was with turning targets and 2 seconds the draw and "put 2 in the center of mass".

The last time I shot the M-9 on active duty...the whole class was taught "2 to the chest and one to the head makes an insurgent extremely dead." This was practiced on every course of fire (over barricade, around barricade, etc.)

Here is my dilema. If I shoot a BG using what I was trained in the USAF, I will get hung out to dry for excessive force.

PLEASE HELP ME TO BREAK THIS HABIT!
 
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David E

New member
the whole class was taught "2 to the chest and one to the head makes an insurgent extremely dead." This was practiced on every course of fire (over barricade, around barricade, etc.)

Here is my dilema. If I shoot a BG using what I was trained in the USAF, I will get hung out to dry for excessive force.

PLEASE HELP ME TO BREAK THIS HABIT!

Excessive force? You're already trying to KILL THE GUY ! How much more "excessive" can you get ?

The "two to the body, one to the head" is the called the "Mozambique Drill," as coined and developed by Jeff Cooper. (again!)

It's origin stems from this account: Mike Rousseaou, one of Cooper's students, faced a terrorist who was armed with an AK- 47 rifle in Mozambique. When the terrorist advanced on Mike, he drew a Browning Hi – Power 9 mm pistol and fired two shots at the terrorist. But the two shots failed to stop the attacker.

Mike then took a targeted shot for the terrorists head, ending the encounter. Thus, Mozambique Drill can be referred to as a 'defensive shooting drill'. The Mozambique Drill is designated in order to counter a loss. If an attacker cannot be stopped after having fired two rounds or in case the attacker is in a protective vest. Then the shooter must be very precise with his shots.

since that is where it was originated by one of Jeff Cooper's students. It works very well for a specific circumstance. But as with many drills or tactics developed for specific circumstances, it has been convoluted (by those that THINK they know what they're doing,) to address situations that it was never intended to do.

It is NOT supposed to be a "everytime you fire your gun, fire two to the body and one to the head" technique as you were apparently taught.

If you suspect the badguy is wearing a vest, that changes things, but for most of us, that's not really an issue.

If the badguy doesn't STOP after shooting him in the body, that again changes things. Others have cited a pelvic shot to be easier to make and also causes the badguy to at least stop charging.

If you have multiple badguys, that's a bad time to try to employ the Mozambique on each one before going to the next. A far better technique is to utilize "Boarding House Rules:" No one gets seconds until everyone has had firsts. IE; shoot everyone once, then go back and see who needs seconds.....then thirds, if necessary.

If a single assailant, I think it's ill-advised to shoot twice, then STOP shooting, lowering your gun (as Chuck Taylor advocates) to assess your handiwork. Then, after you go "Oh, SH#T!" you raise your gun up and try for the head shot. That works only if you have the time and a compliant badguy.

If there is one assailant that's fairly close, a better way is the "zipper technique" where you start shooting as soon as your gun is on target.........anywhere on target, such as his knee, groin, chest, neck and forehead. All shot during the draw as you ride the recoil up his body.

Another similar view is, as long as the badguy is filling my sight picture, he's taking rounds until he no longer presents a threat.

Excessive force? As long as I'm defending my life, any force I use is justified in my book.

Now, if I shoot the badguy and he falls at the first shot, dropping his gun and gasping for breath like a guppy out of water and I go up to him and administer a coup de grace, THAT is excessive force !

Short of that, I'm shooting until the threat is over, be that one shot or 18.

.
 

kwo51

New member
Shoot to stop the assault, not to kill. If the person dies it is their own fault. Only a judge can kill.
 

David E

New member
Yes, I recognize the proper term is to "shoot to stop."

I frequently phrase the question this way: "Could you shoot someone with the expectation of killing them?"

But let's be realistic for a moment. Shooting people can kill them. If you don't expect to kill them, don't shoot them.

That said, there's a big difference between killing and stopping. Of the two, I favor stopping. If he dies as a consequence of being shot, so be it. I am fully willing to risk that consequence on his behalf !

.
 
E

echo_5

Guest
"Mozambique for defense"

Those of us who were professionally (military, police, govt., etc.) trained at handgun fighting can and should refer to their training if in a self defense shooting. Under duress, we revert to our training. Most, if not all professional training is documented. If your manner of defense is called into question, refer the investigating party to your instructor. It's in their hands now. This has been happening to the police for years when accused of excessive force.

- my $.02
 

festus

God Bless Our Troops!!!
Mozambique Drill

Those of us who were professionally (military, police, govt., etc.) trained at handgun fighting can and should refer to their training if in a self defense shooting. Under duress, we revert to our training. Most, if not all professional training is documented. If your manner of defense is called into question, refer the investigating party to your instructor. It's in their hands now. This has been happening to the police for years when accused of excessive force.

- my $.02

I realize that this is the way I was trained and that muscle memory can and will take over in a fight or flight scenario. The point I was trying to make was that we only want the threat to stop. Nothing more nothing less. If all it takes is 1 then that's all you do. If it takes two, then so be it and so on until the threat stops. When you are trained by law enforcement or the military, it puts you in someways in a worse case scenario automatically. Many judges and jurors who have not served will automatically assume that you are a trained killer and a product of your environment that has been turned loose on the general public. I call this the Rambo Effect. He did not ask for trouble but it found him. I make every concession not to come into harms way. I will avoid a fight at almost any cost. I would rather be considered a gutless wuss than be on trial for kicking the dogsnot out of some fool with no manners or home training. Same goes for gunfighting. I do not want to be "that guy". I do not want to ever start a thread with "I drew my gun to defend myself last night". If my gun clears the holster, it is all over but the crying and I know that. I am reluctant but will do my best to maintain my family's safety, above all else. I would rather see and avoid the threat all together. If that can't be done, I will do what is needed nothing more. The last thing I want is to put the military training I was given to the test. You don't get to choose the judge or jury when you are on trial for a felony involving the death of another human being. That being said, almost anything you do if you have been trained by the military is considered "special" training and skills related to your military service. The Mozambique drill is a perfect example of that. It would take a pretty special jury to recognize that self defense is whatever it takes in this day of Mcdonald's Coffee lawsuits and even if you beat the felony manslaughter rap, depending on the state, you may have to deal with a wrongful death lawsuit from the BG's P.O.S. family because he is just a victim of whatever addiction and trying to get a fix. This is all perfectly legal in some states and juries have awarded major cash to these useless golddiggers.
Let's stay safe and keep heads up and eyeballs out. If I need it I have it. If it comes down to it I'll use it. I can almost guarantee muscle memory will take over and from there it will be on like donkey kong with the legal system.
 

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