Does ammo matter in a court case

M

mandoguy

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I was wondering if you had to use deadly force in a home invasion would the ammo you used matter (legally), for instance if you used Hornady's zombie load would the prosecution's defense be that that ammo was only intended for zombies .
 
Anything can and will be used against you in a court of law.

A lawyer will try to find any reason they can to win their case. Whether it's ammo, the weapon, the clothes you wear, or a forum you joined. If they can use it against you they will try to win.
 
Anything to make you look unstable or criminally inclined. Use standard hollowpoint or self defense loads for legality sake.ianal ymmv
 
There's been another recent discussion thread on this topic. Here's what I posted then:

Providence Ranch:238307 said:
Seriously, though, think about this:

Sure, its great as a novelty item. Heck, its on my Christmas list! And it would probably work splendidly as a self defense ammo.

But would you REALLY want to be on the stand as a defendant in a homicide case, trying to justify Zombie Max as your self defense ammo if choice? That, in itself, would be the stuff of nightmares. A prosecutor would have a field day with you, tearing down your image as a responsible, sensible, gun owner. Plus, good luck finding a law enforcemwnt agency that equips its officers with the same ammo to cite as a basis for your choice.

Hate to be the untra-sensible party pooper, but although you may find Zombie Max proudly displayed amongst other curios in my home, you'll never find it in my guns.
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mandoguy said:
I was wondering if you had to use deadly force in a home invasion would the ammo you used matter (legally), for instance if you used Hornady's zombie load would the prosecution's defense be that that ammo was only intended for zombies .
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I am the admitted smart butt in the crowd but, the fact that you used ANY ammunition, in the eye of a majority of district attorneys is enough to get you prosecuted to the max.

If your home state doesn't have the "castle doctrine" in effect and it is your duty to retreat in an encounter, it doesn't matter what ammo you use. But a DA that goes after someone on the premise that a particular ammunition is only for use against Zombies can kiss his career good bye!

Did you see the video for the Zombie Max? It is very good.
 
mandoguy said:
I was wondering if you had to use deadly force in a home invasion would the ammo you used matter (legally), for instance if you used Hornady's zombie load would the prosecution's defense be that that ammo was only intended for zombies .
Click to expand...

I am the admitted smart butt in the crowd but, the fact that you used ANY ammunition, in the eye of a majority of district attorneys is enough to get you prosecuted to the max.

If your home state doesn't have the "castle doctrine" in effect and it is your duty to retreat in an encounter, it doesn't matter what ammo you use. But a DA that goes after someone on the premise that a particular ammunition is only for use against Zombies can kiss his career good bye!

That having been said, there was quite a ruckus in the courts when "dum-dum" ammunition was introduced to the general public. The argument was, the use of hollow point ammunition (dum-dum) was banned by the Geneva Convention as a military load and therefore should be banned for 'home use' or sale to the general public.

I don't have any facts to back it up, but I would imagine some overly zealous DA prosecuted cases involving that ammunition with a vengeance.

Did you see the video for the Zombie Max? It is very good.
 
What ammo should be used.

eXGee11 said:
Anything to make you look unstable or criminally inclined. Use standard hollowpoint or self defense loads for legality sake.ianal ymmv
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The best way to protect yourself in a court of law is to find out the preferred ammo of the local police departments. If you state in court that you are 'only using the same ammunition that the local police are using. If it is good enough for them, isn't it good for me to use as well?' What prosecutor could win an arguemen against that?
 
Rangerbane said:
The best way to protect yourself in a court of law is to find out the preferred ammo of the local police departments. If you state in court that you are 'only using the same ammunition that the local police are using. If it is good enough for them, isn't it good for me to use as well?' What prosecutor could win an arguemen against that?
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A lawyer can turn this on you by saying that you think yourself to be a police officer or a vigilante for using the same type of ammo.
It's really not the type of ammo you use but whether a lawyer can make you out to be a nut for bringing a gun to a knife fight. You must have a good attorney on your side that knows the self defense law of your state.
 
We hear this stuff from time to time. Experts like Ayoob advise purchasing premium factory defensive ammo and avoiding handloads.

While I've never heard of the issue being used in court, I suppose a Prosecutor could say "factory ammo wasn't deadly enough for you, so you made up your own super deadly megadeath devastator loads."

If it was me on the stand, I'd laugh, then ask him if he really believed for a moment that li'l ol' me could manufacture better ammo in my basement that the biggest multi-million dollar ammunition manufacturers in the country. Then I'd remind him that gun hobbyists reload for economic reasons.

Heck, if I had to defend myself with a .500 S&W Magnum, loaded with one of John Ross' "Thunderbolt" loads, and it blew away the attacker and the car behind him, I'd simply testify that I don't think in terms of shooting people and I'd picked up a hunting gun to defend myself.

I'm not a lawyer, don't play one on TV, and didn't stay at Holiday Inn Express last night. But my thought is, avoid ammo sold with nasty sounding names. You remember the media vilification of Black Talon a few years back. And some special fragmenting round with a name like Dead Right There or Zombie Killer might give a Prosecutor an opening.

I think the best real reason for recommending purchase and carry of premium quality defensive ammo is simply that it is good. It's unlikely that you or I will load better and more reliable ammo at home. Also, it probably couldn't hurt if you're carrying the same JHP as the cops and you can play a little dumb in court, saying "well, it's what the cops use and they're the experts."
 
I use holow points, my view is the bullet will brake up in the prep and not go through and kill some inocent person standing by. Better the prep than an inocent
 
mandoguy said:
I was wondering if you had to use deadly force in a home invasion would the ammo you used matter (legally), for instance if you used Hornady's zombie load would the prosecution's defense be that that ammo was only intended for zombies .
Click to expand...

If you use reloads you've done your self, then possibly, there case can be, that you used to much power, making a super-load, As for the hornady's zombie loads?, highly doutfully sence zombie's dont actually exist
 
Shawn Jarman said:
If you use reloads you've done your self, then possibly, there case can be, that you used to much power, making a super-load, As for the hornady's zombie loads?, highly doutfully sence zombie's dont actually exist
Click to expand...

More internet nonsense. Why stop at reloads or hollow points? If the ammo you used to defend yourself in a justified shooting can be called into question then so could the caliber or make of the gun. There has never been a case where a justified shooting was later over turned due to a specific type of ammo.

The recommendation of factory made self defense ammo as opposed to reloads is a reliability issue not one of liability. You are trusting your life that it will go bang. Could a media seeking slime ball lawyer try that approach? Yes, he could even say you wore a Special OP brand of sneakers just to get the drop on the bad guy but all these irrelevant issues will have to stand up in court. Most lawyers know this to be true. In the end the only focus will be on whether the shooting was justified or not. NJ is the only state where HP's will get you in trouble.
 
I can just hear the DA now, "Ladies and gentlebeings of the jury, there stood this vicious homeowner, at three o'clock in the morning, with disheveled hair, nekkid (or maybe wearing camouflage green one-piece trapdoor pajamas with really nasty looking little yellow ducks on 'em) lying in wait to ambush the late, deceased, misunderstood, drug-crazed burglar, uh, victim in the middle of this twisted taxpayer's posh, $55,000 home. And what was he using for ammunition? ZOMBIE KILLERS!!" Actually, with an even halfway decent defense counsel, there's a pretty good chance the jury would award the GG a blue ribbon in addition to voting "Not Guilty."

I wouldn't worry about the type of ammo you use. If you're defending your home and family use a bazooka if you've got it.
 
OM44 said:
Type of ammo has NEVER been used in ANY court case. EVER.

Forget it.
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You say that with some authority. What kind of background do you have that allows you to make such a bold assertion? Or what resource can you direct us to to confirm this rather broad and universal proclamation you have made? Very interested to hear your response.
 
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