do you have to carry a double action pistol cocked??


Usa007

New member
guy at local range was argueing that a semi auto pistol double action needs to be cocked and on safety?? is this true that there is a specific way you need to carry your weapon?:hang3:
 

Doc Mustang

New member
I will not venture so far as to say that he is wrong outright. But he may be confused. Double action means that the trigger both cocks AND drops the hammer. Double action pistols as a rule do not need to be "cocked and locked". In fact there are many double action pistols which CANNOT be cocked and locked as the safety serves double duty as a decocking device. Most Double Action Only (DAO) pistols cannot be carried this way either as the hammer simply cannot be locked back. Therefore double action pistols are the LEAST likely to require being carried this way.

It may be he had confused his terms. Single action pistols such as 1911 style pistols ARE designed to be carried "cocked and locked" as that is the safest way to carry them. He may have meant SINGLE action semi automatic pistols should be carried "cocked and locked"

If it was a simple matter of confusion of terms, a gentle correction should suffice. If your freind at the range insists that double action pistols MUST be carried this way, I would hand him an (unloaded) M-9 Berretta and ask him to demonstrate his technique.
 

CharlieK

New member
I had a Walther P5, which is double action on the first shot, then single action on subsequent shots. It had no safety. It did, though have a decocking lever, but that was not a safety.
 

Phillip Gain

New member
I will not venture so far as to say that he is wrong outright. But he may be confused. Double action means that the trigger both cocks AND drops the hammer. Double action pistols as a rule do not need to be "cocked and locked". In fact there are many double action pistols which CANNOT be cocked and locked as the safety serves double duty as a decocking device. Most Double Action Only (DAO) pistols cannot be carried this way either as the hammer simply cannot be locked back. Therefore double action pistols are the LEAST likely to require being carried this way.

It may be he had confused his terms. Single action pistols such as 1911 style pistols ARE designed to be carried "cocked and locked" as that is the safest way to carry them. He may have meant SINGLE action semi automatic pistols should be carried "cocked and locked"

If it was a simple matter of confusion of terms, a gentle correction should suffice. If your freind at the range insists that double action pistols MUST be carried this way, I would hand him an (unloaded) M-9 Berretta and ask him to demonstrate his technique.

I would add to this that semi-automatic pistols operate in a variety of ways. Some are double-action on the first shot, with the hammer being cocked by the action of the slide for subsequent shots. Some are double-action only, with a long trigger pull which cocks and drops the hammer (or striker) to fire each shot. Some are single-acton only, with the hammer having to be manually cocked before the first shot can be fired. Some have safeties on the side. Some have trigger-mounted safeties. Some even have NO safety.

Consult the manual for YOUR specific firearm, and consult a qualified instructor or your local gun dealer if you have questions. Once you have a thorough understanding of how YOUR firearm works, the best mode of carry should be evident.
 

Phillip Gain

New member
One further note - there is a LOT of debate (smoke and hot air) over how to best carry the 1911-style pistol.

One school of thought says to carry it "cocked and locked" - IE with a round in the chamber, hammer cocked back. In this mode of carry, you have two actions from draw to bang. 1) Click safety off. 2) Squeeze trigger.

The other school of thought says to carry it "hammer down" Which means you have two actions from draw to bang. 1) Cock hammer. 2) Squeeze trigger.

The debate rages on.

This is why I like my revolvers and my M&P 45 (which has a trigger-mounted safety). ONE ACTION from draw to bang. (Squeeze trigger. Repeat if necessary.)
 

fudo

New member
I know numerous people who carry 1911's including me, I don't know ANYONE who carries a 1911 that advocates carrying a 1911 in condition 2 (hammer down, round in chamber).
 
Mine's a DAO, safety-less, internal-hammer. I have no say in the matter. If a round is chambered, pull and it fires.

To me, if the primary purpose of you carrying is to have instantly-available self-defense, then at WORST, the weapon should be able to be pulled from its holster and be fireable by the time you have it on target, with no "thought" needed. If it has a safety that requires a second hand to disable, it's defeating the purpose. If it requires being cocked, and you don't holster it cocked, it's defeating the purpose. A grip safety, sure. A safety that you can flick as you are drawing, fine. If the weapon is a SAO that is safe to holster cocked, great. But if it's a SAO with a side safety that requires your second hand to reach and disable, then it's useless when it matters.
 

6shootercarry

New member
One further note - there is a LOT of debate (smoke and hot air) over how to best carry the 1911-style pistol.

One school of thought says to carry it "cocked and locked" - IE with a round in the chamber, hammer cocked back. In this mode of carry, you have two actions from draw to bang. 1) Click safety off. 2) Squeeze trigger.

The other school of thought says to carry it "hammer down" Which means you have two actions from draw to bang. 1) Cock hammer. 2) Squeeze trigger.

The debate rages on.

This is why I like my revolvers and my M&P 45 (which has a trigger-mounted safety). ONE ACTION from draw to bang. (Squeeze trigger. Repeat if necessary.)

On the 1911 Series 70; Hammer down on a chambered round could be a bad thing. Dropped on the muzzle end it could fire... Same if it falls on the hammer. Safer to carry cocked and locked... Also if in the process of thumbing back the hammer it slips away from your thumb before the half cock position, it could go bang...

Series 80 has the firing pin block and will prevent the pin from protruding from the breech face unless the trigger is pulled. Much safer design to carry with a round in the chamber in either of the manners described..

I have a Colt Officer's ACP Series 80 and carry it when the mood strikes me. I choose to carry it in condition 1 (loaded chamber, hammer cocked, safety on) For the most part it's the M&P40c (warm to hot) or the M&P45 (cool to cold)... It has 3 safeties: Brain, trigger articulated passive safety, firing pin block.

Where in MA? What type of instruction? NRA cert? PM is fine.. Thanks...
 

santa

santa
I always have been a 'wheel gun' person. A double action revolver, pull the trigger and it goes BANG! If it doesnt pull it again and odds are the next one goes BANG! A round malfunction can stop a semi-auto, which can be a disaster. Whatever your gun is be safe and learn how to use it. You cant beat 'hands on training' from a knowledgeable instructor.
 

twogunwilly

American
I always have been a 'wheel gun' person. A double action revolver, pull the trigger and it goes BANG! If it doesnt pull it again and odds are the next one goes BANG! A round malfunction can stop a semi-auto, which can be a disaster. Whatever your gun is be safe and learn how to use it. You cant beat 'hands on training' from a knowledgeable instructor.
Pulling the trigger on a wheel gun that does not go bang could result in a hang fire that blows up your gun. With a semi the dud is ejected.
 

Deanimator

New member
guy at local range was argueing that a semi auto pistol double action needs to be cocked and on safety?? is this true that there is a specific way you need to carry your weapon?:hang3:
Not only don't you HAVE to, with some of them, you CAN'T.

Cock the hammer on a Walther PPK/S, Walther P-38, or S&W Model 39 then apply the safety and the hammer will drop without firing the pistol.

A Beretta 96D can't be manually cocked AT ALL. It's double-action only. You can ONLY pull the trigger double-action, causing it to be retracted and fall, firing the pistol.
 

Deanimator

New member
Pulling the trigger on a wheel gun that does not go bang could result in a hang fire that blows up your gun. With a semi the dud is ejected.
My experience with misfires versus hangfires is something like 20 or more to one.

I don't recall ever having a hangfire in with a modern commercial cartridge. The last hangfires I recall were with FN .30-06 ball loaded in the '50s that a friend had in college in 1980.

My club has a double-action revolver league every spring. It's fired double-action ONLY, with slow, timed and rapid stages. There has NEVER been a hangfire, much less damage from one in all of the years that league has been in operation.

The odds of you getting a factory round with NO powder at all vastly outweigh those of a hangfire.
 

Nightmare45

NRA LIFE MEMBER
100 years of cocked and locked and every gun manfacture copying Brownings design says it all. Peace, Love Colt 45.
 
My experience with misfires versus hangfires is something like 20 or more to one.

I don't recall ever having a hangfire in with a modern commercial cartridge. The last hangfires I recall were with FN .30-06 ball loaded in the '50s that a friend had in college in 1980.

My club has a double-action revolver league every spring. It's fired double-action ONLY, with slow, timed and rapid stages. There has NEVER been a hangfire, much less damage from one in all of the years that league has been in operation.

The odds of you getting a factory round with NO powder at all vastly outweigh those of a hangfire.

In a few thousand rounds of the cheapest 9mm I can buy at gunshows over the past decade, I've never had a hangfire. (Well, unless it was such a long hangfire that I had left the range by the time it went off. :biggrin:) Duds, yes, hangfires, no. Never even had a dud of 12-gauge standard commercial-bought. But I don't fire as much of that. Maybe only a few hundred over the past decade.
 

coachdb18

New member
Pulling the trigger on a wheel gun that does not go bang could result in a hang fire that blows up your gun. With a semi the dud is ejected.

In a semi, if the round doesn't fire, the slide doesn't come back to eject the round..and you effectively have a club! I'll take my chances w/ a revolver that it isn't a hang fire if I'm caught shooting to save my life. If I'm at the range, I wait the 30 seconds...
 

6shootercarry

New member
I have to agree.. The ratio of misfires to hang-fires is way off the chart... I was at Front Sight in June with 40 some odd people on the line for 4 days. 600-700 rounds per person fired. noted a few misfires, but not one hang-fire... The modern double action revolver is king for reliable function in self defense. lacking capacity and requiring more time for reloading are the downsides..
 

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