Tucker's Mom
New member
OUR borders need OUR soldiers HERE.
Do you agree with pulling out of Afghanistan?
- Thread starter gunnerbob
- Start date
gunnerbob
PEW Professional
I've let a few of you guys weigh in here... now I'll give my opinion, with some personal insight.
I agree we need to get out of Afghanistan. Going in, in October 2001 was the right thing to do, I'm sure we all agree. The mission of denying the Taliban backed Al Qaeda a safe place to operate and killing Osuma Bin Laden. These two key mission objectives have morphed into rebuilding a nation based on democracy in an extremely non-democratic society.
We have dumped billions of dollars into infrastructure and building a military to attempt to keep the democracy in place through security and winning the people over(hearts & minds). The problem is the people in that country do not want the same kind of government we have. So, once we leave the U.S. trained Afghan military & police will either drop what their doing or be defeated by the stronger and better trained(for their own countries landscape) Taliban. Vietnam anyone?
We have done what we can do without bringing our own country down. The saying "give until it hurts" comes to mind. It's been hurting for a few years now. Going to, and continuing a war for nation-building is a terrible idea... that will end with thousands of people dead and the "building" nation bankrupt.
Now, my insight comes from 1. I spent 7 months in the Hindu Kush mountains near the Pakistan border... I saw, smelled, heard, communicated with, and learned about the local population. Along with learning what combat is like with a well trained, knowledgable, small, fast moving, and determained enemy defending his land... in his part of the world. And 2. I'm not ignorant so I educate myself about as much as I can, when I can.
We are the most powerful military force in the world, no doubt. Our weakness ultimately stems from our lack of "heart" in this conflict overall. Yes, many Americans believe in this mission down to their bones. And yes, in those moments of "you" or "him"... you'll fight like you never thought you could. But it's not enough to win absolute victory in the end.
Then we have the issue of this war contributing to our economic collapse... it is. Aint no moving around that one. When the dollar collapses, everything collapses.... everywhere. The third world nations will remain so, the thrid world nations under cover will fall back to pure poverty and tyranny. And the first world nations will revert into third world... it will happen.
In the end, leaving under perceived failure won't sting so much if it helps preserve our nation.
I agree we need to get out of Afghanistan. Going in, in October 2001 was the right thing to do, I'm sure we all agree. The mission of denying the Taliban backed Al Qaeda a safe place to operate and killing Osuma Bin Laden. These two key mission objectives have morphed into rebuilding a nation based on democracy in an extremely non-democratic society.
We have dumped billions of dollars into infrastructure and building a military to attempt to keep the democracy in place through security and winning the people over(hearts & minds). The problem is the people in that country do not want the same kind of government we have. So, once we leave the U.S. trained Afghan military & police will either drop what their doing or be defeated by the stronger and better trained(for their own countries landscape) Taliban. Vietnam anyone?
We have done what we can do without bringing our own country down. The saying "give until it hurts" comes to mind. It's been hurting for a few years now. Going to, and continuing a war for nation-building is a terrible idea... that will end with thousands of people dead and the "building" nation bankrupt.
Now, my insight comes from 1. I spent 7 months in the Hindu Kush mountains near the Pakistan border... I saw, smelled, heard, communicated with, and learned about the local population. Along with learning what combat is like with a well trained, knowledgable, small, fast moving, and determained enemy defending his land... in his part of the world. And 2. I'm not ignorant so I educate myself about as much as I can, when I can.
We are the most powerful military force in the world, no doubt. Our weakness ultimately stems from our lack of "heart" in this conflict overall. Yes, many Americans believe in this mission down to their bones. And yes, in those moments of "you" or "him"... you'll fight like you never thought you could. But it's not enough to win absolute victory in the end.
Then we have the issue of this war contributing to our economic collapse... it is. Aint no moving around that one. When the dollar collapses, everything collapses.... everywhere. The third world nations will remain so, the thrid world nations under cover will fall back to pure poverty and tyranny. And the first world nations will revert into third world... it will happen.
In the end, leaving under perceived failure won't sting so much if it helps preserve our nation.
Punch
New member
I agree with pulling out. I, too, do not like the timetable. Yesterday would have still been to late in my opinion. Since we have decided that we are not willing to win the war, every American killed since that decision was made is pure murder.
wjh2657
New member
Afghanistan is a religious war, between Taliban extremists, wanting Sharia law and strict Islam observance and a military ruled government loosely disguised as a democracy that just wants power and corruption for personal profit. I just don't see the purpose in trying to find some kind of order by inserting Christian troops into the fray. We need to leave.
Cavedweller
Cavedweller
I believe an organized pull-out plan is in order, but I have doubts about our capability to do so. We had a
planned pull-out in Vietnam that turned into chaos near the end. When we get down to the last troops the
Afgan army should at least be strong enough to defend us while we leave. After we're gone they will go back
fighting as they have for over a thousand years. They may have had moments of piece in the past, but it never
lasts when their tribes have a lack of tolerance for each other. Our own country seems to be heading in the
same direction.
planned pull-out in Vietnam that turned into chaos near the end. When we get down to the last troops the
Afgan army should at least be strong enough to defend us while we leave. After we're gone they will go back
fighting as they have for over a thousand years. They may have had moments of piece in the past, but it never
lasts when their tribes have a lack of tolerance for each other. Our own country seems to be heading in the
same direction.
Old Zebra
Member
I voted for pulling out of Afghanistan as I generally agree with most of the reasons already cited. The Afghan war as currently conducted makes no sense to me. I don't believe a stable Afghanistan is achievable in our lifetime. When we rebuilt Germany and Japan after WWII, we were dealing with educated societies that possessed a sense of national identity. In Iraq, the sense of national identity is weak and in Afghanistan it's nonexistent. Making matters worse for the Afghans are their tribal allegiances and wide-spread illiteracy. It will take decades to build an Afghan nation. Instead, we need to re-focus on stopping threats to our national security. And to bring this topic back home...isn't this why we choose to carry weapons...to stop threats?
I don't think we should let the Taliban operate in that region when we just freed their population. Sure we made them what they are through our helping them fight Russia, but if history has taught us anything(American History, anyway), it's that we need to disarm the people we used to fight a common enemy or they will turn and challenge us as well. It's only natural if you teach a dog to kill, sooner or later there will come a day that you have to make a decision on whether you'll put it down if it bites you! They bit us with 9/11, we bit back with Operation Jawbreaker(CIA/SF JOINT OP). The Taliban/Al Quiada problem is one that cannot be solved with peace. We owe it to the humanity of the good people of Afghanistan and Iraq to see this through and put down "the Dogs of War"/Taliban & Al Quiada. If we withdraw, it was all for nothing and our fallen brothers will gnash their teeth for our betrayal of their warrior spirit.
Unfettered Might
Μολών λαβ&
I say turn it all into a sheet of glass.
That's the only way you can stop a war that's been going on for a thousand years or more. I doubt any of them could tell you what started it in the first place. Even turning the place to glass will only work until those that survive can get together and revive the hate.
Seeya
New member
I wanted to do that in 2002 but fear got in the way by our elected.
Oldgrunt
Well-known member
The Russians were in Afghanistan for many years and could never bring the populace under their control or establish a workable government. They told the US when the decision was made to go there that we were making a big mistake but nobody listened. Why stay any longer?
Ed Hamberger
New member
I disagree with the idea of simply pulling out of Afghanistan. I agree with former President George W. Bush when he told the nation in October, 2001 that we were taking the War to the Terrorists, and that if a country supported the Terrorists then they were a part of the problem and were also subject to attack. What I do agree with is kicking our illegal White House occupant out of Office and prosecute his sorry ass to the fullest extent of the law...
gunnerbob
PEW Professional
I understand we need to combat terrorists. But, here's some thoughts... there are better, safer ways to engage and deny the terrorists the ability to train, plan, and conduct operations around the globe without having full scale combat being conducted in Afghanistan.
We, and the world will never be able to defeat terrorism... never. Can we make an impact? Yes, we already do... just not in the best manner anymore, with our troops in Afghanistan in large scale. If we simply say we have to go after the terrorists by fighting full scale wars... then when will we win?
What is victory? Is it staying in Afghanistan for another 10, 20, 50 years? Is it declaring we will have permanent troops there until the end of time? Is it fighting yet another full scale war in Iran? North Korea? Pakistan? If we do not decide we need to end the full scale combat... we will drag ourselves into a never ending series of war here, and war there.
Our nation does not have the money, the equipment, the troops, or the heart to fight a never ending full scale war. That's a fact. We can pursue covert ops, small scale hits, SF raids, and the like. But not full scale war until the country collapses in economic and social anarchy.
And before anyone questions my patriotism and experience in this matter, I caution you... My family has served this country since WW1, in every branch of service, and we have given our loved ones in the process. I am currently serving, and I am an OEF veteran. I've been there... and done that. I love this country, and do not beleive this current course of action is truly the best way to ensure our freedoms.
We, and the world will never be able to defeat terrorism... never. Can we make an impact? Yes, we already do... just not in the best manner anymore, with our troops in Afghanistan in large scale. If we simply say we have to go after the terrorists by fighting full scale wars... then when will we win?
What is victory? Is it staying in Afghanistan for another 10, 20, 50 years? Is it declaring we will have permanent troops there until the end of time? Is it fighting yet another full scale war in Iran? North Korea? Pakistan? If we do not decide we need to end the full scale combat... we will drag ourselves into a never ending series of war here, and war there.
Our nation does not have the money, the equipment, the troops, or the heart to fight a never ending full scale war. That's a fact. We can pursue covert ops, small scale hits, SF raids, and the like. But not full scale war until the country collapses in economic and social anarchy.
And before anyone questions my patriotism and experience in this matter, I caution you... My family has served this country since WW1, in every branch of service, and we have given our loved ones in the process. I am currently serving, and I am an OEF veteran. I've been there... and done that. I love this country, and do not beleive this current course of action is truly the best way to ensure our freedoms.
Unfettered Might
Μολών λαβ&
Yes, but with the radiation poisoning, their tenure would be shortlived.
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