Discovered why I carry during work

[JimTh]

I am a land surveyor in Virginia and I have carried while I survey. I always wondered if I were a bit overdressed for work when I carried but now I know my reasoning. I was surveying a property in a suburban setting. The property was close to 3 acres but it was long and narrow. As I was reconning the rear of the property I heard a familiar sound, that of a Rottweiler running the boundary line common to my property. I looked over and saw that the line was not fenced. The rotty came up and gave me a look and a growl as if to say..."your ass is mine". The pooch only came within 5 feet of the line so I assumed there was a buried wire for a shock if he got to close. The problem is I needed to be at the line. Having used that type of containment system for a dog of mine several years ago I discovered that if the prize on the other side of the fence is big enough the dog will plow through the shock hazard, get his treat, and then may or may not return. Of course I am the prize. Might some of you be rotty owners so don't take this too personally...but I cannot for the life of me understand why some dumbass rotty owners don't think it necessary to put up a secure physical barrier to contain the damned dog. Rottys have been known to kill. So I unholster my 9mm carry, put it in my coat pocket, and get prepared to do battle. The dog and I look at each other sizing each other up. Finally the owner came out and said the rotty would not go beyond a certain point. Clearly his dog was different than every other dog on the planet. I was not satisfied with his statement and asked him to put the dog up. If he hadn't, now that I knew he was home, I would have been forced to call animal control. The survey continued and I completed the job...now I just have to get the land owner to pay the bill.

I was talking to a gun rights lawyer over the weekend and asked him how I would have been treated had someone seen me unholster my pistol before placing it in my pocket out of sight but near and dear to my protection. I don't want to shoot a dog, the cops do plenty of that without my help. Anyhow the lawyer dude said to shoot the dog if I felt threatened otherwise the law could make a brandishing charge stick. I know the dog is only doing what he knows to do by nature...not by common sense. The dog does not realize if he crosses a line he could get hurt. I will go in yards with german sheperds, dobermans, and any lab. I do not go in yards with rottys, pits, or ankle biters. I have some ankle biters and if they weren't mine I would want to kick them too.

Interesting wakeup call for me!

 

[telpinaro]

I've known a couple of Rottys that were the sweetest dogs you'd ever meet. Let us crawl all over them as kids! Glad you didn't have to shoot him... He was just protecting his home and didn't know any better, like you said. Would hate having to shoot a dog for trying to protect his people! It's the Chows you need to watch out for, btw... or any Japanese dog. They were all bred as guard dogs originally, and they can be very mean about it. Especially since most owners of the cute, fluffy dogs just think it's adorable and don't bother to train them properly. There are plenty more Chow bites than Pit Bulls. So, stay out of their yards, too! There was one Akita my pet sitter was telling me about that was extremely aggressive, and even though she'd known him since he was a puppy, one day he just decided she wasn't allowed in the house. She called the owners and told them to come home from vacation right now... she wasn't about to get attacked.

 

[Capt. Frank]

Any breed mishandled, abused, or otherwise raised in the wrong environment, can be problematic, like children. I was an animal hospital tech for 5 years, three breeds we did not like to see come in the door were: Chow, Cocker Spaniel, and German Shepard, all three could be bad fear biters. We welcomed Dobermans, pitbulls, and Rottweilers, they were almost always face lickers, and quite docile.

 

[trailboss]

I used to work for a local phone company, we could not carry guns.
we had to deal with dogs of all kinds all the time. The worst ones are the ones that the owner says they wont bite, HAHAHA famous last words.
I have been charged by dogs many times.
I was bit once. After seeing no obvious sign of a dog in the back yard I went in.
Got all the way across the back yard and a chow came up behind me. as I turned to see what it was, he was already lunging at me.
I swatted at his head and he bit me in the hand. Not serious, a puncture in the palm.
He then lunged again and I took a step back and landed a nice kick to his jaw with my steel toed boots.
Sadly, I did not have my tool belt on. Had I had a screwdriver, the dog would have died.
The owner, very apologetic elderly woman, said he has never done anything like that.
The worst part,
By the time I got to the ER, the whole company knew what happened. The big grape vine... story was I got mauled ....
The ER gave me a tetanus shot and a band aid. I asked for a sling, cast, wheel chair, anything but a band aid.
So I got razzed for a while..hahahaha... a band aid...

Thinking back now.. having been charged several times and bit once..... its a thin line a dog makes to charge or attack.
In my 16 years working utilities experience, if I could have had a gun, I would probably not shoot a charging dog, but I would have shot that chow.
Most dogs charge and stop just short.

 

[protias]

As with anything, it depends on your state. Jim, you being from VA, you'd be justified with defending your life.

 

[CharlesMorrison]

Any breed mishandled, abused, or otherwise raised in the wrong environment, can be problematic, like children. I was an animal hospital tech for 5 years, three breeds we did not like to see come in the door were: Chow, Cocker Spaniel, and German Shepard, all three could be bad fear biters. We welcomed Dobermans, pitbulls, and Rottweilers, they were almost always face lickers, and quite docile.

You list a Springfield XDM 38 compact in your profile. Did you mean 3.8 inch barrel? It certainly can't be a caliber designation.
I'm just being curious.


Sent from behind Enemy Lines.

 

[subvet69]

I worked for a phone company for a few years..I always carried treats. Gives you a little time to check out the dog. I also carried (not permitted) at one jobsite when I came out of the CEV and observed a large pool of blood on the sidewalk and chain link fence. I left, next day I was armed.

 

[Nick Burkhardt]

The more aggressive the dog, the more they want to get away from the sound Link Removed

I have used it and it works.

 

[S&W645]

I've had large Beagles, Chows, Shepherds, Dobbies, Rotties, and a few others. The worst ones were the female Beagle and the male Chow. The female bit my boss ( she didn't like him when she wandered into work and didn't like him 5 years later at home) and the Chow tried to bite the hand that fed him, mine.

 

[telpinaro]

I've had large Beagles, Chows, Shepherds, Dobbies, Rotties, and a few others. The worst ones were the female Beagle and the male Chow. The female bit my boss ( she didn't like him when she wandered into work and didn't like him 5 years later at home) and the Chow tried to bite the hand that fed him, mine.

Large beagle? If a beagle is more than say, 18-19" (HUGE for a beagle), it's either a cross, a Foxhound, or a strange puppy mill mutation.... Met a 40 lb Jack Russell that wasn't a bit fat from a puppy mill! Beagles are very high strung, so easy to mishandle... if someone who looked like your boss scared her once, she definitely wouldn't like him forever!

 

[S&W645]

Large beagle? If a beagle is more than say, 18-19" (HUGE for a beagle), it's either a cross, a Foxhound, or a strange puppy mill mutation.... Met a 40 lb Jack Russell that wasn't a bit fat from a puppy mill! Beagles are very high strung, so easy to mishandle... if someone who looked like your boss scared her once, she definitely wouldn't like him forever!

Both of the Beagles were crossed with something to make them large instead of standard sized. And both were ten years apart. Most likely cross was with a Redtick Coonhound. They were about half way between in size. Both were adopted dogs, LBJ came from the pound and Ladybird was a wander in at work and were puppies at the time. LBJ was a good rabbit and groundhog hunter at the farm in Ohio. Ladybird never got to go there. Both were about 20" high.

 

[BC1]

Some dogs will obey the fence line. My GSD didn't need a wire or fence. Dog would not leave the property unless with me.

 

[telpinaro]

Both of the Beagles were crossed with something to make them large instead of standard sized. And both were ten years apart. Most likely cross was with a Redtick Coonhound. They were about half way between in size. Both were adopted dogs, LBJ came from the pound and Ladybird was a wander in at work and were puppies at the time. LBJ was a good rabbit and groundhog hunter at the farm in Ohio. Ladybird never got to go there. Both were about 20" high.

Those had to be some cool looking dogs! I've got a surprisingly tall beagle (17" maybe?) that doesn't look to be mixed with anything. Think he's just a fluke... he was a rescue so who knows.

I grew up around dog shows so I was curious. :smile: It was funny... I showed up at a dog show to pick up a puppy and even though I'd been very, very young the last time they saw me, EVERYONE there remembered me.

 

[Olinb]

Some dogs will obey the fence line. My GSD didn't need a wire or fence. Dog would not leave the property unless with me.

I have a 9 year old GSD I took in when he was 1 year old. I was a volunteer for Ga. GSD Rescue and he was to be my first foster dog. I quickly realized I'd have to work in another area since I would have wanted to keep all of them. Especially ones as great as this one. An exchange student from Turkey owned him and when he had to go home suddenly due to family matter, he was devastated to find out that he would most likely have lost the dog if he took him home. It seems that AKC registered dogs, especially GSD's, placed in mandatory quarantine had a habit of suddenly dying before the owner could retrieve them. Of course they were given to the army, police, or whomever so it was my great luck to receive "Kurt" (Turkish for Wolf) the best trained, sweetest, and smartest GSD I've owned. The student had a real gift for training. To this day he won't leave the property without permission once he learns the boundary. He will "pee" on command. It's as if he understands me, which took a while as all his commands were in Turkish. For instance the "pee" command is "chish" which is a slang word I believe. Anyway, Kurt has a really secure way to get in/out of the house on his own and the other night was pestering me to play while I was busy working on a program I needed to get finished. Just to get him to go away for a bit, I told him "I don't see your ball. Go get your ball and I'll play with you". Actually I was cheating as I knew where his ball was out in the yard underneath my truck. I saw it when I parked on top of it. 60 seconds or so later he was sitting beside me with his ball in his mouth. Last time I go trying to outsmart my dog.

 

[S&W645]

I have a 9 year old GSD I took in when he was 1 year old. I was a volunteer for Ga. GSD Rescue and he was to be my first foster dog. I quickly realized I'd have to work in another area since I would have wanted to keep all of them. Especially ones as great as this one. An exchange student from Turkey owned him and when he had to go home suddenly due to family matter, he was devastated to find out that he would most likely have lost the dog if he took him home. It seems that AKC registered dogs, especially GSD's, placed in mandatory quarantine had a habit of suddenly dying before the owner could retrieve them. Of course they were given to the army, police, or whomever so it was my great luck to receive "Kurt" (Turkish for Wolf) the best trained, sweetest, and smartest GSD I've owned. The student had a real gift for training. To this day he won't leave the property without permission once he learns the boundary. He will "pee" on command. It's as if he understands me, which took a while as all his commands were in Turkish. For instance the "pee" command is "chish" which is a slang word I believe. Anyway, Kurt has a really secure way to get in/out of the house on his own and the other night was pestering me to play while I was busy working on a program I needed to get finished. Just to get him to go away for a bit, I told him "I don't see your ball. Go get your ball and I'll play with you". Actually I was cheating as I knew where his ball was out in the yard underneath my truck. I saw it when I parked on top of it. 60 seconds or so later he was sitting beside me with his ball in his mouth. Last time I go trying to outsmart my dog.

My was a Shep/Dane mix. Big brindle color dog. As for your story,Link Removed

 

[Greenie00]

Someone once told me a chow is not good for anything but a bullet to the head. My family had bunches of them. Mixed and pure bred. I had a mixed chow lab mix that was one of the best dogs and great with kids. After he died. I got a pure bred chow and all was well for a few years. One day that sucker turned on me with no warning just like that fella warned me years earlier. At first my wife thought I was nuts when I told her the dog lost its mind. She went out and it was all playfully and lovy dovey. As soon as I stepped foot in the yard that sucker lost his mind again. Called animal control and they told me this is a common thing that happens with chows. Needless to say I was lucky and I will never own a chow again. They are pretty....pretty damn

mean and dangerous

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I577 using USA Carry mobile app

 

[S&W645]

Someone once told me a chow is not good for anything but a bullet to the head. My family had bunches of them. Mixed and pure bred. I had a mixed chow lab mix that was one of the best dogs and great with kids. After he died. I got a pure bred chow and all was well for a few years. One day that sucker turned on me with no warning just like that fella warned me years earlier. At first my wife thought I was nuts when I told her the dog lost its mind. She went out and it was all playfully and lovy dovey. As soon as I stepped foot in the yard that sucker lost his mind again. Called animal control and they told me this is a common thing that happens with chows. Needless to say I was lucky and I will never own a chow again. They are pretty....pretty damn

mean and dangerous

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I577 using USA Carry mobile app

Sounds like the dog bonded with your wife and became her guard dog. Chows are known for that sort of thing where they are fine with one person or a child while turning on another adult. Mine was also fine with mom when it turned on me. And I was the one that fed it.

 

[telpinaro]

Sounds like the dog bonded with your wife and became her guard dog. Chows are known for that sort of thing where they are fine with one person or a child while turning on another adult. Mine was also fine with mom when it turned on me. And I was the one that fed it.

Definitely. Had a friend with a chow mix... she was the only one that could get anywhere near it. They pick a person and that's it. I'm sure it's not all chows (especially if you mix it with something laid back like a lab), but the ones I've met haven't been good with anyone other than their person.

I don't even think they're pretty. Cute as puppies, maybe.

 

[desertrat12]

I am a land surveyor in Virginia and I have carried while I survey. ...I was surveying a property in a suburban setting. ...As I was reconning the rear of the property I heard a familiar sound, that of a Rottweiler running the boundary line common to my property. I looked over and saw that the line was not fenced. ...The problem is I needed to be at the line. ...Might some of you be DOG owners so don't take this too personally...but I cannot for the life of me understand why some dumbass DOG owners don't think it necessary to put up a secure physical barrier to contain the damned dog. DOGS have been known to kill. So I unholster my 9mm carry, put it in my coat pocket, and get prepared to do battle. The dog and I look at each other sizing each other up. Finally the owner came out and said the DOG would not go beyond a certain point. ...I was not satisfied with his statement and asked him to put the dog up. If he hadn't, now that I knew he was home, ...call animal control.
...I will go in yards with german sheperds, dobermans, and any lab. I do not go in yards with rottys, pits, or ankle biters. I have some ankle biters and if they weren't mine I would want to kick them too.

Edits and emphasis added by dr12

I've BTDT when I was land surveying. We were not allowed to carry due to some of the urban settings and crossing into the Nations in certain areas. My home state's statutes make it a gross misdemeanor to interfere with a surveyor, or any markers placed. When we would be doing PLs & PCs for a client and the neighboring property had a dog(s), we would ask the owner to "...please keep the dogs inside or restrained as we needed to work the property lines (PL) and verify the corners (PC) which would involve going onto their property. Rarely did we have to call the office to let the shirts decide how to play things out.

Given where you were on the property, I doubt a 'brandishing' charge would stick, as you imply that LOS would have been an issue.

Re: DOG(s), having been an owner of another breed known to silently patrol an area, I maintained physical barriers as well as "K9 Patrolled Area" & "No Trespassing" signage per County Ordinances. Yeah, place kicking 'ankle biters' is tempting, but you could be held Civilly Liable a well as Criminally Liable for kicking them, even in self defense unless you recorded the whole incident. I have had delivery & utility people ignore the signs and potential injuries to do their jobs. Usually a quick recorded call (stated that the call was being recorded) to their supervisors explaining the issue brought that practice to a halt.

I hope the wireless fence rf emissions didn't mess your instruments.

 

[Javy]

Carry in is always important. Most employes just forbid it just for their liabilities. But carry is always matter of life an death. They don't like it but then you have Virginia shooting, and all the school shooting, and only god knows where is going to be the next massacre...