Did he do the right thing?


KimberPB

New member
Thoughts on this one?

Link Removed

Tuesday, Nov 6th, 2007: ST.PETERSBURG (Bay News 9) -- Police said a good samaritan was shot while trying to keep a man from beating up a woman.

It happened on 9th street North and 32nd Street South Tuesday around 10:30 a.m.

Police say Paul Mitchell, 38, and Patrick Ricketts, 23, drove up on a man trying to beat up a woman on the street.

Mitchell, who has a permit to carry a concealed weapon, jumped out of his truck with his gun drawn.

Police said Mitchell told the suspect to let the woman go. He did and the woman ran away.

But police said when the suspect got in his car to leave, he started shooting at the Mitchell, the good samaritan.

One round hit Mitchell in the thigh. Another bullet hit a nearby home.

Police said the good samaritan did not return fire and is being treated at Bayfront Hospital. He's expected to be okay. The suspect is still on the loose.
 

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EdMaxx

New member
I'd say he did fine, right up to the point where he blew the situational awareness. He should have been in condition Red until the BG was gone. It sounds like he went to condition Yellow too soon. Just my $.02.

BTW, here's the link on that: Link Removed
 

KimberPB

New member
I'd say he did fine, right up to the point where he blew the situational awareness. He should have been in condition Red until the BG was gone. It sounds like he went to condition Yellow too soon. Just my $.02.

BTW, here's the link on that: Link Removed

Thanks for the correct link I must have copied it wrong. I edited the original post and added yours.
 

ishi

New member
I'd buy him a beer any day. I'm interested in whether the experience has changed his outlook on samaritanism (sp?)
 

Tarzan1888

New member
I'd say he did fine, right up to the point where he blew the situational awareness. He should have been in condition Red until the BG was gone. It sounds like he went to condition Yellow too soon. Just my $.02.

BTW, here's the link on that: Link Removed


You are right on.

Tarzan
 

Unearthed

New member
I think the answer is sort of obvious and has already been stated. Lets make it a little more interesting:

YOU are the good samaritan and with gun drawn you tell this scumbag to stop hitting the woman. He tells to you F off and punches her in the face...

What's your next move?
 

Puppy

New member
I think the answer is sort of obvious and has already been stated. Lets make it a little more interesting:

YOU are the good samaritan and with gun drawn you tell this scumbag to stop hitting the woman. He tells to you F off and punches her in the face...

What's your next move?

Excellent question.
 

kwo51

New member
And then you shot him only to find out the other person was a guy in drag trying to rob him.
 

ishi

New member
Yeah, the problem with the situation is that... well it probably wasn't legal for him to draw on the guy. It was probably ethical! But the law, I'm not sure that it gives him a way to legally do what he did. In fact, it could be convincingly argued (by a scumbag lawyer, not me) that he was the one who escalated the situation.

If I saw something like that, I would... damn, I'm not sure. I don't wanna go to prison for aggravated assault, that's the thing. I'd have to be sure that he was actually endangering her life. It might be easier to scream at the guy and convince him to attack me instead.

The thing is, by drawing your weapon you're threatening to kill somebody. I'm not sure if I could (or should) make that threat on the basis of one person punching another one, unless it was clear that it was a life-threatening situation. The other idea is a rather personal one, and it's that my reason for carrying is explicitly to protect my wife and myself, in that order. I can't make any promises about protecting anybody else.

It's a really tough question, and I'm glad this guy isn't going to jail. It's hard to guarantee that he would not go to jail for the same actions in a different city or state.
 
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sar

New member
As far as I'm concerned a guy on top of a woman is attempting rape as far as I can tell. You can kill someone in texas in order to defend yourself or a third person from a rape.


otoh, I'm not sure I'm ready to shoot someone who's apparently empty handed. Based on prior experience,I'd probably have attempted to make him stop without drawing my weapon. Only difference between now and back then is I have a cell phone and would 911 it prior to trying to intervene.
 

sar

New member
Just wanted to make sure I was right. I rechecked the statutes. That good samaritan would be perfectly justified in using deadly force to prevent sexual assault. In fact in Texas you can shoot someone to protect property.

Moreover, you can draw your gun without it actually being considered deadly force. Link Removed 9.04 under threats as justifiable force. Although it's not clear from the way the statute's worded what to do if they call your bluff...
 

flcracker

New member
That's why

I always carry a cellphone (safety off)...JIC something like this ever happens...

I'm not the guy who will ever turn his back to a situation like the one described...especially if there's a child involved... I'm gonna 'get involved', armed or not, although I am usually always armed...

If you ever pull, or even show that you have one, be ready for what's going to happen next. If you let the 'bg' walk away, you might at least expect that he may be going to retrieve his, from under a car seat or something, then you're in a gunfight, like it or not.

In such a situation, keep the man 'covered', and make that 911 call post haste...letting the bg know that LE is on the way, and there's no way they are going to leave the scene walking or otherwise, until the law says so.

If you let your bg exit the scene, and they make the 911, you will be the one answering a lot of questions as to why you threatened or intimidated using a firearm.

In a similar situation, I would make the 911, BEFORE I challenged the bg...If at all possible.

flc
 

DrDavidM

New member
I think the guy did a great deed. I am sorry he relaxed too soon and took one in the leg. One point to ponder, I would be very uncomfortable coming up on a situation like that and engaging someone. I don't truly know what is going on. What if the supposed bad guy is an undercover cop and the woman was selling drugs, and pulled a knife on him when he approached her. Unlikely, of course, but again I did not know what is really going on. Just something to think about. I like the idea of calling 911 and then yelling at the guy. I would rather yell at a cop than shot one. Of course when yelling I would be prepared to draw the Ruger should BG threaten my life.
 

flcracker

New member
What if..?

What if the supposed bad guy is an undercover cop and the woman was selling drugs, and pulled a knife on him when he approached her. Unlikely, of course, but again I did not know what is really going on. Just something to think about. I like the idea of calling 911 and then yelling at the guy.

What would any REASONABLE person do given these same circumstances?...that's the question that your friendly local prosecutor is going to use to decide if you violated any laws or not.

IF the bg turns out to be a LEO, then he/she has plenty of time to so announce, and eventually show ID... LEO's aren't going to be beating the snot out of someone in the normal course of an arrest....Well...maybe sometimes...but not usually.

Common sense Doc, says that if you were to happen on what LOOKS like a crime in progress, that it probably is....and if you do act on it, then just be totally ready for what could happen when you do.

The man in St Pete's only major mistake, was in letting the bg walk away after having made the challenge.... You've seen a possible life threatening crime in progress, and if he doesn't want to cooperate, then do whatever you feel is right to stop any further threat. And CALL for LE imediately.

flc
 

molonlabetn

New member
Cell phone... take a picture, call the cops, etc... If the situation looks life-threatening for the person being assaulted, stop the attack. In this case, it is obvious that the good Samaritan's decision to draw (threaten deadly-force) directly resulted in the perp 'one-upping' him. That, combined with the lack of situational awareness of the good Samaritan assuming that the mere presence of his gun made them safe... reality check!

If you draw, only do so with the intention to use it, not threaten with it. Someone might call your bluff, and there you will be... in the hospital (if you're lucky).
 

kwo51

New member
We can( what if ) this to death. Yes we should help,remembering domestic violance has no rational thought involed. You might have to shot,be ready,and after you do she will attack you .
 

Tarzan1888

New member
We can( what if ) this to death. Yes we should help,remembering domestic violance has no rational thought involed. You might have to shot,be ready,and after you do she will attack you .


This is true.

I once sat on a jury where 2 brothers were fighting and one pulled a gun and shot at the floor and the bullet bounced and hit a third party in the arm.

Long - short

The police came and tried to separate the two men, where as they both turned on the police and ended up being charged with assaulting an officer.

You never know.
 

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