Dial or Electronic Lock?
- Thread starter localgirl
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TekGreg
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Dial.
I have never seen an electronic lock that had the strength of a dial lock. All steel tumblers, cams and rods are going to work for hundreds of years and have. On the flip side, I have seen batteries fail and then leak in an electronic lockpad, causing the entire unit to be replaced and the inside of the door and lock to be cleaned, a huge expense. Also, many electronic locks have a key bypass for the eventuality of a lack of power. This, to me, is a security weakness, because it gives another way into the safe that doesn't need to be there, a key that needs to be separately secured and just adds to the number of weaknesses allowing someone to exploit to possibly break into this safe.
Steel doors, one dial, very few, all known ways to defeat it, and they all are expensive to execute and take a long time. Not so with electronic locks. The safe can be defeated the same as the dial lock, but it can also be hacked, more likely to be videographed, print lifted, fluoresced, or many other of the keypad defeats. An electronic lock is a gimmick that someone thought would help sell safes to the techno-geek crowd, and it worked. But it does not make them better or safer or harder to crack.
I have never seen an electronic lock that had the strength of a dial lock. All steel tumblers, cams and rods are going to work for hundreds of years and have. On the flip side, I have seen batteries fail and then leak in an electronic lockpad, causing the entire unit to be replaced and the inside of the door and lock to be cleaned, a huge expense. Also, many electronic locks have a key bypass for the eventuality of a lack of power. This, to me, is a security weakness, because it gives another way into the safe that doesn't need to be there, a key that needs to be separately secured and just adds to the number of weaknesses allowing someone to exploit to possibly break into this safe.
Steel doors, one dial, very few, all known ways to defeat it, and they all are expensive to execute and take a long time. Not so with electronic locks. The safe can be defeated the same as the dial lock, but it can also be hacked, more likely to be videographed, print lifted, fluoresced, or many other of the keypad defeats. An electronic lock is a gimmick that someone thought would help sell safes to the techno-geek crowd, and it worked. But it does not make them better or safer or harder to crack.
I was certain I wanted a mechanical dial on my safe until the Liberty factory rep' showed me a couple of things about electronics. For instance,
- Electronic locks allow for multiple combinations. i.e. you can give a friend or family member their own combination TEMPORARILY.
- Electronics allow you to change the combination at any time but a mechanical lock requires paying a locksmith to change the combination.
After trying them, I prefer electronic locks by a large margin over mechanical.
- Electronic locks allow for multiple combinations. i.e. you can give a friend or family member their own combination TEMPORARILY.
- Electronics allow you to change the combination at any time but a mechanical lock requires paying a locksmith to change the combination.
After trying them, I prefer electronic locks by a large margin over mechanical.
Our Multivault has an electronic lock with a keyed backup. We keep one key off-site and one hidden in a secure location in the house (half the time *I* can't find it and I'm the one that setup the secure location. 
).
The electronic lock allows us access to the safe with minimal trouble as well as showing any attempts to open it while we were away (we had a baby sitter that tried to get into it one night while we were out ... needless to say she doesn't work for us anymore).
As for the battery/power issue, the closet that the safe is in already had power in it, so adding another device to it wasn't a problem. As far as the batteries go, we swap them out at the same time we swap out the batteries in the smoke detectors and the emergency flashlights - every 6 months whether they really need it or not. With the kids' battery operated toys, what does an extra package of AA batteries cost every 6 months? If I wanted to, I could push it back to every 12 months without a problem according to the manufacturer's documentation. But then, I tend to be a little anal about replacing them.
).The electronic lock allows us access to the safe with minimal trouble as well as showing any attempts to open it while we were away (we had a baby sitter that tried to get into it one night while we were out ... needless to say she doesn't work for us anymore).
As for the battery/power issue, the closet that the safe is in already had power in it, so adding another device to it wasn't a problem. As far as the batteries go, we swap them out at the same time we swap out the batteries in the smoke detectors and the emergency flashlights - every 6 months whether they really need it or not. With the kids' battery operated toys, what does an extra package of AA batteries cost every 6 months? If I wanted to, I could push it back to every 12 months without a problem according to the manufacturer's documentation. But then, I tend to be a little anal about replacing them.
Grognard Gunny
New member
Grognard Gunny
New member
Phillip Gain
New member
Ha. Don't get me started...
If convicted of a storage violation it's a felony and case laws shows that this is one law that prosecutors doggedly pursue. There was one guy who had a heart attack and took off his carry gun and placed it on the table after he hung up with the 911 dispatcher. Of course the boys in blue roll with the ambulance so he was charged and he plead out. There was another guy who had a handgun locked in a factory plastic case. He had the case inside of a cooler and the cops showed up at his house for some reason. They found it and he was convicted in a bench trial because the prosecutor told the judge the gun was not in a secure location. He appealed and it was overturned because the law specifies “in a locked container or affixed with a tamper resistant mechanical lock” but says nothing about secure location. Of course this cost him thousands in legal bills all due to over zealous LEOs and prosecutors. I use this:
Link Removed
I had someone pounding on my door late at night recently. It turned out they just had the wrong house (so they said anyway) and nothing happened but I had my gun out in about two seconds in the dark after being woken up from a deep sleep.
Dennis1209
New member
I got a good deal on a Liberty Fat Boy safe with the mechanical lock. I paid additional to have it changed out for a e-lock. My small Liberty safe has the dial and hard to see with my aging eyes. Make just one small error, and start all over again. With the e-lock, I'm in my safe in five (5), count them, FIVE seconds. The only regret I will ever have is if an EMP attack ever happens.
rifleshooter474
New member
I have had the Electronic on my Fort Knox, and it has never failed. The Electronic have been working well for years it's really the industry standard today.
wnewland01
New member
I had a pistol stolen from my truck a few months ago. It ripped my guts to think that a bad guy had my pistol. I eventually got it back from LEO's. Because of this I purchased a small safe that I bolted in my truck. It is not sledge hammer proof but it is definitely plier and screwdriver proof. It has an electronic lock on it and it is a good thing it does because I can reach from the front seat to the back and pull one of two pistols in a matter of seconds (yes, I have practiced it to be sure). I like the safe so much that I bought one that I bolted to the floor right next to my bed with the same electronic mechanism. Again, I can get to the larger version of the pistol I carry everyday within seconds, with no lights on in the room. It is all programmed muscle memory now. Long story short, electronic is the way to go. I just change the batteries in both safes when I change the batteries in my smoke detectors in the house.
They are emp proof, and have been proven reliable by 100's of years of use, but I can easily find "my digital safe lock will not work" stories....
As far as most electronic locks having a key override in them as was said in an earlier post, that is just not so.
The key lock in the center of the dial is called a daylock. The combo can be dialed and then dialed to just off open and then the dial is locked. You use the key to unlock the dial and then you can just turn the dial to the opening index and you don't have to go thru all the trouble of dialing the whole combo every time you want to open the safe. That is for something like a gunshop or range where the safe is opened 30 times a day.
At night you can completely lock the dial lock and then either lock the dial so it can't even be turned, or not, your choice. Any safe that has an either or, key or dial is usually a real inexpensive off shore type of safe.
Either lock is a good choice as long as you are not talking about an EMP attack and then there is a whole lot more to worry about anyway.
The key to having a good lock is having a good quality lock.
I took an S&G off my Cannon and put an S&G push button lock. Mine has been on there for almost 20 years with no problems. The lock beeps when the batteries get low. The batteries are kept behind the keypad for ease of replacement.
Some say that if the safe is burglarized and the dial is pulled off, wires an all, it is a nightmare.
Try opening a safe where the manual dial is punched in and the automatic re-lockers are set. Just as bad if not worse.
Re-lockers are a function in a safe to keep someone from just punching the lock spindle inside the safe so the boltworks become free to operate. There are many ways these operate but for illustration purposes the easiest and two of the most used are either a plate or a wire attached to the back of the lock body that when disturbed, will release a spring loaded bolt right into the boltworks restricting their movement. Just about like the bolt that goes in and out of the main safe lock.
The government has some pretty strict and 'must be' reliable and secure standards. There are several locks that are suitable such as Mosler, S&G and Mas Hamilton.
So I guess what I'm trying to say is that there are reasons that anyione can come up with as to not like either one style or the other, but the fact is, both are safe, both can be reliable and it comes right down to what methods do you want to get into your safe with.
The only absolute is that an EMP will probably mess up the electronic but I'm not absolutely sure if some of the new Mas Hamilton locks may be impervious to even that.
Just make sure whatever lock you choose is a high quility lock that has a proven track record.
KK
The key lock in the center of the dial is called a daylock. The combo can be dialed and then dialed to just off open and then the dial is locked. You use the key to unlock the dial and then you can just turn the dial to the opening index and you don't have to go thru all the trouble of dialing the whole combo every time you want to open the safe. That is for something like a gunshop or range where the safe is opened 30 times a day.
At night you can completely lock the dial lock and then either lock the dial so it can't even be turned, or not, your choice. Any safe that has an either or, key or dial is usually a real inexpensive off shore type of safe.
Either lock is a good choice as long as you are not talking about an EMP attack and then there is a whole lot more to worry about anyway.
The key to having a good lock is having a good quality lock.
I took an S&G off my Cannon and put an S&G push button lock. Mine has been on there for almost 20 years with no problems. The lock beeps when the batteries get low. The batteries are kept behind the keypad for ease of replacement.
Some say that if the safe is burglarized and the dial is pulled off, wires an all, it is a nightmare.
Try opening a safe where the manual dial is punched in and the automatic re-lockers are set. Just as bad if not worse.
Re-lockers are a function in a safe to keep someone from just punching the lock spindle inside the safe so the boltworks become free to operate. There are many ways these operate but for illustration purposes the easiest and two of the most used are either a plate or a wire attached to the back of the lock body that when disturbed, will release a spring loaded bolt right into the boltworks restricting their movement. Just about like the bolt that goes in and out of the main safe lock.
The government has some pretty strict and 'must be' reliable and secure standards. There are several locks that are suitable such as Mosler, S&G and Mas Hamilton.
So I guess what I'm trying to say is that there are reasons that anyione can come up with as to not like either one style or the other, but the fact is, both are safe, both can be reliable and it comes right down to what methods do you want to get into your safe with.
The only absolute is that an EMP will probably mess up the electronic but I'm not absolutely sure if some of the new Mas Hamilton locks may be impervious to even that.
Just make sure whatever lock you choose is a high quility lock that has a proven track record.
KK
Iam2Taz
New member
I have both types and prefer the electronic model. My wife can open it in a heartbeat. I do like the solid feel of the dial though.
Just a side note... My teenage son moved out of the house. Came back and was in the room and went to open the safe. He didn't mention what he was looking for. Oddly enough, it wouldn't open. He asked, "Hey Dad, the lock is messed up. Why can't I get in it?" I replied, "You moved out. You don't need to be in there. The code is changed." Now, he didn't like it, but it was easy to change.
YMMV.
Just a side note... My teenage son moved out of the house. Came back and was in the room and went to open the safe. He didn't mention what he was looking for. Oddly enough, it wouldn't open. He asked, "Hey Dad, the lock is messed up. Why can't I get in it?" I replied, "You moved out. You don't need to be in there. The code is changed." Now, he didn't like it, but it was easy to change.
YMMV.
dumb okie
New member
Nothing but dial locks for me. No batteries to fail, but i often take guns out or put guns in the safe during the day when my hands are not the cleanest. Having 3 or 4 dirty buttons when the rest are spotless makes the combo alot easier to guess. At least once a month someone will unlock my truck just to show me they can by randomly pressing the dirty buttons
