Detroit to continue stop and frisk policy....

[ezkl2230]

Despite a judge ruling NYC's random stop and frisk policy unconstitutional, Detroit, which uses the same blueprint, will continue the practice -- one that most of us in Michigan outside of Detroit were unaware of. According to the police chief,

Based on reasonable suspicion, the Detroit Police Department is already a stop-and-frisk policing agency. Detroit's population is mostly African American, so it stands to reason that a high number of African Americans will be stopped, based on reasonable suspicion. This is not racial profiling, just officers doing good constitutional police work.

Constitutional police work. Let's consider what constitutes "Constitutional."

The Fourth Amendment says,

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Probable cause is only part of the equation.

A reasonable search of one's person includes ALL of the following:

1. Probable cause. This is different than "reasonable suspicion," to which the Constitution NEVER REFERS. According to FreeLex, the online legal dictionary,

"Probable cause" means that the officer must possess sufficiently trustworthy facts to believe that a crime has been committed. In some cases, an officer may need only a reasonable suspicion of criminal activity to conduct a limited search. Reasonable suspicion means that the officer has sufficient knowledge to believe that criminal activity is at hand. This level of knowledge is less than that of probable cause, so reasonable suspicion is usually used to justify a brief frisk in a public area or a traffic stop at roadside. To possess either probable cause or reasonable suspicion, an officer must be able to cite specific articulable facts to warrant the intrusion.

Just because "reasonable suspicion" is used to justify a search does not mean that it rises to the level demanded in the Fourth Amendment.

2. Oath or affirmation. While the Detroit chief says that all of these searches are documented, at no point is an oath or affirmation required of the officer conducting the search.

3. Specific details about what or whom is to be searched/seized. A warrantless stop and frisk doesn't require this.

4. A WARRANT. These are warrantless searches, requiring none of the Constitutionally-mandated pre-requisites seen above.

According to the Constitution, then, such stop and frisk procedures constitute unreasonable search and seizure.

 

[ezkl2230]

Ok, BC, let's think about this. North of 600,000 stop and frisks each year (1.2 million in 2011, 2012 alone), yet according to the NYPD's own data, less than 1/10 of 1% of all detentions - that's THEIR word - turned out to be guilty of anything at all. During the court case that put a stop to the practice, it was revealed that an analysis of 4.4 million stops yielded just 5,940 firearms, of which only 300 had been used in other crimes.

I don't care how you try to spin this, that's a lot of civil rights violations and a lot of wasted man hours and taxpayer dollars for a statistically insignificant number of busts. Let them do what Detroit has done - encourage New Yorkers to carry. Since doing that, violent crime was down 25% in the first quarter of this year as compared to last year during the same time frame.

 

[Stengun]

Howdy,

"Probable cause" and "reasonable suspicion".

Fairly simple terms that are used by LEOs every day.

I lived and/or worked in Little Rock from 1995 to 2000. During this time, actually from 1990 to 2000, 9 of the 11 years Little Rock was the "Murder Capital of the USA" due to a combo of the Crips and Bloods gang fights and crack cocaine.

One of the main places to get crack in Southwest Little Rock was at the Crimshaw Apartment complex. This was an entirely 100% Afro-American populate apartment complex ( actually it was the entire 10 block area ) and if you were white and were seen by LRPD in the Crimshaw area you were stopped by the LEOs because due to "reasonable suspicion", there was only one reason you were visiting the Crimshaw area.......... You were there to buy crack, plain and simple.

LEOs would do the "Stop & Fisk" and if you didn't have any warrants or weapons, they would simply take your crack and any cash you migh have at the time.

Nothing "random" about the stops. You were stopped because of "Probable cause" and "reasonable suspicion".

If you hang out in high crime rate areas you should expect the pooppoop to hit the fan at any time.

Paul

 

[BluesStringer]

Howdy,

"Probable cause" and "reasonable suspicion".

Fairly simple terms that are used by LEOs every day.

I lived and/or worked in Little Rock from 1995 to 2000. During this time, actually from 1990 to 2000, 9 of the 11 years Little Rock was the "Murder Capital of the USA" due to a combo of the Crips and Bloods gang fights and crack cocaine.

One of the main places to get crack in Southwest Little Rock was at the Crimshaw Apartment complex. This was an entirely 100% Afro-American populate apartment complex ( actually it was the entire 10 block area ) and if you were white and were seen by LRPD in the Crimshaw area you were stopped by the LEOs because due to "reasonable suspicion", there was only one reason you were visiting the Crimshaw area.......... You were there to buy crack, plain and simple.

LEOs would do the "Stop & Fisk" and if you didn't have any warrants or weapons, they would simply take your crack and any cash you migh have at the time.

Nothing "random" about the stops. You were stopped because of "Probable cause" and "reasonable suspicion".

If you hang out in high crime rate areas you should expect the pooppoop to hit the fan at any time.

Paul

Yeah, I was pulled over about 9 years ago while driving through a part of Huntsville that fits the same description. The pig got me out of the car for no reason, searched it even though I specifically stated he did not have my consent, as I was demanding to know what crime I was suspected of having committed with no answers forthcoming, and after he found nothing and started demanding to know what I was doing there and I told him I don't answer questions without my attorney present, he and his fellow pigs and piglettes finally gave up and allowed me to go on my way.......to the Salvation Army Church a block away where approximately 100 people were meeting to board a chartered bus and head down to Biloxi, MS for disaster relief. I got pulled over about 8:00 the night that Katrina came ashore in NOLA. We were in Biloxi by 10:00 the next morning. I was one of seven or eight other people who got pulled over or hassled while getting gas or groceries at a convenience store around the corner from the church.

It doesn't surprise me at all that you fancy yourself with the same pigheaded mindset as the pigs who slowed down our departure to provide good, Christian outreach to people in dire need. Whenever I see you post, I can count on seeing another affirmation of everything that's wrong with this country. You are what government produces, and that is what's wrong with this country.

Blues

 

[Deanimator]

If you hang out in high crime rate areas you should expect the pooppoop to hit the fan at any time.

What if you LIVE in a "high crime rate area"? What if you can't afford to move?

I spent my childhood growing up in "high crime rate areas".

You offering to move the NON-criminals in those areas to other areas?

 

[Stengun]

Howdy,

What if you LIVE in a "high crime rate area"? What if you can't afford to move?

I spent my childhood growing up in "high crime rate areas".

You offering to move the NON-criminals in those areas to other areas?

Sounds like you want someone that take care of you instead of you being a responsible adult and taking care of yourself.

As a child you do not have any control over where you live. As an adult you do.

Live in a high crime rate area as an adult? Move.

Pretty simple.

Paul

 

[Stengun]

Howdy,

Yeah, I was pulled over about 9 years ago while driving through a part of Huntsville that fits the same description. The pig got me out of the car for no reason, searched it even though I specifically stated he did not have my consent, as I was demanding to know what crime I was suspected of having committed with no answers forthcoming, and after he found nothing and started demanding to know what I was doing there and I told him I don't answer questions without my attorney present, he and his fellow pigs and piglettes finally gave up and allowed me to go on my way.......to the Salvation Army Church a block away where approximately 100 people were meeting to board a chartered bus and head down to Bioxi, MS for disaster relief. I got pulled over about 8:00 the night that Katrina came ashore in NOLA. We were in Biloxi by 10:00 the next morning. I was one of seven or eight other people who got pulled over or hassled while getting gas or groceries at a convenience store around the corner from the church.

It doesn't surprise me at all that you fancy yourself with the same pigheaded mindset as the pigs who slowed down our departure to provide good, Christian outreach to people in dire need. Whenever I see you post, I can count on seeing another affirmation of everything that's wrong with this country. You are what government produces, and that is what's wrong with this country.

Blues

One of the most idiotic things I have ever read on the 'Net. More likely than not, the local cops knewn about the meeting at tha SAC and all you would had to have done was tell them were you were going and why and the situation would have ended right then and there.

Actually, your "story" is pure BS.

You were "crusin'" in a high crime rate area that was known for drugs and hookers and you played Billy Badbutt with the cops and they backed down and let you go?

Never happened.

You were driving in a high crime rate area in the evening, near nightfall, were white in a more than likely black neighborhood, and that gave the cops "probable cause" to pull you over.

Usually when "Whitey" is in "Black Town" he's looking for 1 or 2 things: drugs and/or hookers. Both are illegal.

same pigheaded mindset as the pigs? Nope. I was just stating what the LEOs were doing in Little Rock back in the 90's. The "pigheaded mindset" of cops today is NOT a Liberal POV.

Paul

 

[NavyLCDR]

Howdy,

One of the most idiotic things I have ever read on the 'Net. More likely than not, the local cops knewn about the meeting at tha SAC and all you would had to have done was tell them were you were going and why and the situation would have ended right then and there.

Actually, your "story" is pure BS.

You were "crusin'" in a high crime rate area that was known for drugs and hookers and you played Billy Badbutt with the cops and they backed down and let you go?

Never happened.

You were driving in a high crime rate area in the evening, near nightfall, were white in a more than likely black neighborhood, and that gave the cops "probable cause" to pull you over.

Usually when "Whitey" is in "Black Town" he's looking for 1 or 2 things: drugs and/or hookers. Both are illegal.

same pigheaded mindset as the pigs? Nope. I was just stating what the LEOs were doing in Little Rock back in the 90's. The "pigheaded mindset" of cops today is NOT a Liberal POV.

Paul

So, what you are basically saying is that having the wrong color skin for a given neighborhood rises to the level of probable cause for the police to detain someone.

 

[BluesStringer]

So, what you are basically saying is that having the wrong color skin for a given neighborhood rises to the level of probable cause for the police to detain someone.

Not what he's saying, that's precisely, exactly, disgustingly and racist-ly what he actually said!

 

[NavyLCDR]

You were driving in a high crime rate area in the evening, near nightfall, were white in a more than likely black neighborhood, and that gave the cops "probable cause" to pull you over.

Usually when "Whitey" is in "Black Town" he's looking for 1 or 2 things: drugs and/or hookers. Both are illegal.

same pigheaded mindset as the pigs? Nope. I was just stating what the LEOs were doing in Little Rock back in the 90's. The "pigheaded mindset" of cops today is NOT a Liberal POV.

Paul

So, Paul, according to your theory (NOT MINE!), you are driving through an upper class affluent neighborhood in the evening, near nightfall, where black in a more than likely white neighborhood, and that gave the cops "probable cause" to pull you over.

Usually when "Colored" is in "White Town" he's looking for 1 or 2 things: a house to break into or a white woman to rape. Both are illegal.

same pigheaded mindset as the pigs? Nope. I was just stating what the LEOs were doing in Little Rock back in the 60's. The "pigheaded mindset" of cops today is NOT a Liberal POV.

All the black person has to do when they are stopped by police is tell them were they are going and why and the situation will end right then and there.

How does that sound to you?

 

[ezkl2230]

Sten, I'm going to un-ignore you for a moment. There IS a difference between reasonable suspicion and probable cause. Reasonable suspicion comes down to exactly what you're talking about. An officer thinks you look out of place in a particular area and they roust you. Probable cause means you are observed actually doing something that is potentially or actually illegal. 4.4 million people were rousted in NYC WITHOUT PROBABLE CAUSE based on a suspicion that the MIGHT be doing something illegal - and less than 1/10 of 1% turned out to be guilty. Your argument, like so many others you have posted, just doesn't hold up.

 

[NavyLCDR]

4.4 million people were rousted in NYC WITHOUT PROBABLE CAUSE based on a suspicion that the MIGHT be doing something illegal - and less than 1/10 of 1% turned out to be guilty. Your argument, like so many others you have posted, just doesn't hold up.

Well.... most of those rousted in NYC were detained on an UNREASONABLE suspicion that they MIGHT be doing something illegal. However, most of those in NYC probably voluntarily consented to interaction with the police because they didn't know any better. That is also a huge factor....Stengun's theory is just voluntarily comply and there are no problems. I just don't have it in me to voluntarily comply in order to prevent an illegal detainment.

 

[BluesStringer]

One of the most idiotic things I have ever read on the 'Net. More likely than not, the local cops knewn about the meeting at tha SAC and all you would had to have done was tell them were you were going and why and the situation would have ended right then and there.

Wow. You're so dull that if my recounting of what happened were a stiletto stuck right in your liver, you still would've missed the point!

For one thing, I worked at the Salvation Army. I was in that neighborhood every single week-day and into most evenings. I drove their donations truck and volunteered to drive and man one of their food trucks during disaster relief musters. Still do volunteer even though I haven't worked for them in more than six years. There was a drug and alcohol rehab facility on the grounds populated for six months at a time by white, black, Hispanic, Korean and every other race/ethnicity at any given point in time.

But the point you missed is that the pigs had no reason whatsoever to contact me in the first place. It is a violation of the equal protection clause of the 14th Amendment to use race (white or black) as a sole criteria to force an unwanted contact on a citizen, much less to search their vehicle! You are advocating that I submit to racist criminals, assuming that you're right about the reason I was contacted, which doesn't surprise me that you are most likely right, obviously being just as racist and lawless as the pigs I had to deal with that night.

Actually, your "story" is pure BS.

You were "crusin'" in a high crime rate area that was known for drugs and hookers and you played Billy Badbutt with the cops and they backed down and let you go?

Never happened.

So to a pig, it is "playing Billy Badbutt" to cite the Constitution and/or stand up for one's rights. That is the point, idiot.

And I wasn't "cruisin'" at all. I was driving the exact same route I drove every single work-day to the Salvation Army Thrift Store that's right next door to the church. I got lit-up a block away, protested their search and demanded to know what crime I was suspected of committing. Waited for them to finish and went on my way.

But pig-minded pigs expect citizens to take whatever indignity pigs force upon them, so you make it out to be "playing Billy Badbutt" to know and stand up for our rights. Got it, idiot.

You were driving in a high crime rate area in the evening, near nightfall, were white in a more than likely black neighborhood, and that gave the cops "probable cause" to pull you over.

And that sentence right there proves your racist nature and your antipathy for constitutional rights in this country. Everything you say here is correct except that the color of one's skin qualifies under any reading of criminal law as "probable cause" that's compliant with the 4th Amendment. You and the Huntsville cops who used such racist criteria to invoke their authority are exactly the kinds of pigs who earn southern cops their reputations. Whether or not you actually realize it, at least you're up front about it.

Usually when "Whitey" is in "Black Town" he's looking for 1 or 2 things: drugs and/or hookers. Both are illegal.

Yeah, well, violating a citizen's constitutional rights is illegal too. Implementing your racist views while on The People's dime is illegal too.

same pigheaded mindset as the pigs? Nope. I was just stating what the LEOs were doing in Little Rock back in the 90's. The "pigheaded mindset" of cops today is NOT a Liberal POV.

I'll buy that so-called conservatives have contributed to the egregious violations of rights in this country, but a racist pig is a racist pig no matter what ideology s/he claims to adhere to. Your ideas about what constitutes "probable cause" are racist to the bone.

Blues

 

[Deanimator]

Howdy,



Sounds like you want someone that take care of you instead of you being a responsible adult and taking care of yourself.

As a child you do not have any control over where you live. As an adult you do.

Live in a high crime rate area as an adult? Move.

Move WHERE and with what money?

Today people are lucky to have ANY job. Where exactly do you expect somebody in a dead end, low paying job (or no job at all) to move that's got LESS crime? The bottom of Lake Michigan?

Pretty simple.

Simple minded, actually.

 

[gunnerbob]

Oh good, another thread where Paul shows us how stupid he is.

 

[Rocketgeezer]

Howdy,



One of the most idiotic things I have ever read on the 'Net. More likely than not, the local cops knewn about the meeting at tha SAC and all you would had to have done was tell them were you were going and why and the situation would have ended right then and there.

Actually, your "story" is pure BS.

You were "crusin'" in a high crime rate area that was known for drugs and hookers and you played Billy Badbutt with the cops and they backed down and let you go?

Never happened.

You were driving in a high crime rate area in the evening, near nightfall, were white in a more than likely black neighborhood, and that gave the cops "probable cause" to pull you over.

Usually when "Whitey" is in "Black Town" he's looking for 1 or 2 things: drugs and/or hookers. Both are illegal.

same pigheaded mindset as the pigs? Nope. I was just stating what the LEOs were doing in Little Rock back in the 90's. The "pigheaded mindset" of cops today is NOT a Liberal POV.

Paul

Not so much drugs, but whats wrong with hookers, :laugh:

 

[vernsimpson]

My sister lives in near Detroit and there are no jobs in MI at all. She looked for work for a long time before she finally found a couple of part-time jobs that would make up at least a 40 hr week. She is not making anything near what she made before obummer!

In Detroit there is nothing! The lib-o-rats run Detroit for years and run it into the ground! Even the rats (not the libs) have left the town. People should leave but to many believe they can not leave or won't. Crime is very rampant and while do not agree with the stop and frisk, I do understand the reason for it! I do not have an answer for how to stop the crime there or other places like Detroit.

We have other towns/cities that are on the same path as Detroit.

 

[Rocketgeezer]

Oh good, another thread where Paul shows us how stupid he is.

Maybe he was home schooled

 

[Deanimator]

Maybe he was home schooled

By Joe Biden and David Duke?

 

[BluesStringer]

By Joe Biden and David Duke?

Bingo!!!