Denied permit in Washington state

[Brandy Jennings]

I recently applied and am about to be denied my concealed weapon permit. They are wanting information from a 15 year old misdemeanor charge in Arizona (1999) for carrying a concealed weapon. Arizona doesn't keep records back that far and I have no paperwork on it either. I got a $250 fine and 6 months of bench probation. They said they need proof it wasn't a felony and want to know the details of it. Looking at the Arizona Revised Statues to find that charge and the class of crime it is isn't sufficient for them. I also have a federal felony related to mail theft that I had dismissed. It was similar to drug court in the state systems. You complete 1 year of outpatient treatment, meetings, court appearances and random UA testing 4 times a month...and the benefit is the dismissal of the charge. My civil rights were never taken away. My attorney confirmed that for me. But the sheriff's office is claiming that i have to apply for my rights back, because i lost them, even if i think I didn't because i plead guilty in exchange for dismissal of the charge upon completion. They are giving me til Wednesday of this week to gather my proof otherwise. Any suggestions?

 

[BluesStringer]

Isn't open carry legal without a permission slip?

 

[NavyLCDR]

Any suggestions?

When you are denied, this is your appeal process:

RCW 9.41.0975: Officials and agencies ? Immunity, writ of mandamus.

RCW 9.41.0975
Officials and agencies — Immunity, writ of mandamus.

(2) An application may be made to a court of competent jurisdiction for a writ of mandamus:

(a) Directing an issuing agency to issue a concealed pistol license or alien firearm license wrongfully refused;

(b) Directing a law enforcement agency to approve an application to purchase wrongfully denied;

(c) Directing that erroneous information resulting either in the wrongful refusal to issue a concealed pistol license or alien firearm license or in the wrongful denial of a purchase application be corrected; or

(d) Directing a law enforcement agency to approve a dealer's license wrongfully denied.

The application for the writ may be made in the county in which the application for a concealed pistol license or alien firearm license or to purchase a pistol was made, or in Thurston county, at the discretion of the petitioner. A court shall provide an expedited hearing for an application brought under this subsection (2) for a writ of mandamus. A person granted a writ of mandamus under this subsection (2) shall be awarded reasonable attorneys' fees and costs.

Probably going to take hiring a lawyer to straighten it out, but if it is found that the sheriff wrongly denied your license you should get your expenses reimbursed. Good luck!

As was noted above, you can open carry a loaded handgun outside a vehicle and an unloaded handgun inside a vehicle without the CPL in Washington.

They are wanting information from a 15 year old misdemeanor charge in Arizona (1999) for carrying a concealed weapon. Arizona doesn't keep records back that far and I have no paperwork on it either. I got a $250 fine and 6 months of bench probation.

There is a record of it somewhere or else the Sheriff would not be wanting proof it was not a felony. If there is no record of it (other than your disclosure on the application) the sheriff cannot deny your permit - in Washington, the Sheriff must prove you are not eligible, it is not up to you to prove that you are.

 

[UDoggie]

I'm not a lawyer, but you should get someone who is.

-UD

 

[ventman]

Given your record, I am not surprised at the denial.

 

[Firefighterchen]

Carry openly.

Sent from my HTCONE using USA Carry mobile app

 

[NavyLCDR]

Given your record, I am not surprised at the denial.

That was certainly a helpful post.

 

[sarge98597]

Don't commit crimes, then you won't have these problems

 

[NavyLCDR]

Don't commit crimes, then you won't have these problems

I would be willing to be everyone on this forum has committed several misdemeanors at least one felony in their life. For example: you are carrying a firearm in a state that recognizes your out-of-state permit (such as a Washington resident with a WA CPL carrying a firearm in Idaho). Unless you stop, unload, and lock your gun up each time you are within 1000' of a school in that state that you don't have a permit issued by, you are violating Federal law, 18 USC 922 (q)(2).

Or the drive through mail drop boxes on real post office property. I guess nobody has ever driven onto post office property, dropped a letter in the mail box, and driven away with a gun in their vehicle which violates US Post Office regulations.

Just because you haven't gotten caught doesn't mean you didn't commit the crime - and probably with full knowledge you were committing it.

 

[JimTh]

I would be willing to be everyone on this forum has committed several misdemeanors at least one felony in their life. For example: you are carrying a firearm in a state that recognizes your out-of-state permit (such as a Washington resident with a WA CPL carrying a firearm in Idaho). Unless you stop, unload, and lock your gun up each time you are within 1000' of a school in that state that you don't have a permit issued by, you are violating Federal law, 18 USC 922 (q)(2).

Or the drive through mail drop boxes on real post office property. I guess nobody has ever driven onto post office property, dropped a letter in the mail box, and driven away with a gun in their vehicle which violates US Post Office regulations.

Just because you haven't gotten caught doesn't mean you didn't commit the crime - and probably with full knowledge you were committing it.

Most people think that they are not felons because they have no convictions. A felon is a person that commits an act that is felonious in its nature. Is Bill Clinton a liar...nah...he was never prosecuted for perjury before a federal judge therefore he is not a felon either. Anyone ever pass a joint to someone at the party when you were young...guess what...you are a felon! Folks let us without sin cast the first stone...oh oh your not a Christian either. Okay...go on and righteously proclaim your the new messiah!

 

[sarge98597]

I would be willing to be everyone on this forum has committed several misdemeanors at least one felony in their life. For example: you are carrying a firearm in a state that recognizes your out-of-state permit (such as a Washington resident with a WA CPL carrying a firearm in Idaho). Unless you stop, unload, and lock your gun up each time you are within 1000' of a school in that state that you don't have a permit issued by, you are violating Federal law, 18 USC 922 (q)(2).

Or the drive through mail drop boxes on real post office property. I guess nobody has ever driven onto post office property, dropped a letter in the mail box, and driven away with a gun in their vehicle which violates US Post Office regulations.

Just because you haven't gotten caught doesn't mean you didn't commit the crime - and probably with full knowledge you were committing it.

You should really check the law before babbling on. First off Idaho recognizes Washington concealed carry permits. Check the attorney generals website. You can have a concealed weapon on school grounds as long as all your doing is dropping off or picking up someone. Same with the drive thru the post office drop box that's outside. Sounds like I struck a cord because you committed felonies and want your civil rights restored. What separates us from third world countries in the rules that our elected politicians put in place. Don't be upset because you chose not to follow these rules & now don't understand why your rights are restricted. If you are truly changed go before a judge & get your rights restored. Don't act like you were treated wrongly, you broke the law. Your actions have consequences.

 

[sarge98597]

Idaho honors Washington permits. Check the Idaho attorney generals website

 

[Firefighterchen]

You should really check the law before babbling on. First off Idaho recognizes Washington concealed carry permits. Check the attorney generals website. You can have a concealed weapon on school grounds as long as all your doing is dropping off or picking up someone. Same with the drive thru the post office drop box that's outside. Sounds like I struck a cord because you committed felonies and want your civil rights restored. What separates us from third world countries in the rules that our elected politicians put in place. Don't be upset because you chose not to follow these rules & now don't understand why your rights are restricted. If you are truly changed go before a judge & get your rights restored. Don't act like you were treated wrongly, you broke the law. Your actions have consequences.

Idaho honors Washington permits. Check the Idaho attorney generals website

You do realize Navy is not the original poster, Navy has not lost his civil rights, and Navy all ready has a permit...You expect us to believe anything you say after you fail this badly? Curious, are you a cop?

Navy sourced federal law btw... maybe you should Google it...hah yeah right...like that will happen

(2)

(A)*It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to possess a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone.

(B)*Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the possession of a firearm—

(i)*on private property not part of school grounds;

(ii)*if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located [/size=6] or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license.

Aka out of state licenses don't mean a damn thing.

Sent from my HTCONE using USA Carry mobile app

 

[NavyLCDR]

You should really check the law before babbling on.

You must be very flexible to have your foot in your mouth and your head up your rear end at the same time.

First off Idaho recognizes Washington concealed carry permits. Check the attorney generals website. You can have a concealed weapon on school grounds as long as all your doing is dropping off or picking up someone.

To elaborate on Firefighterchen's most eloquent post the fact the Idaho recognizes the Washington CPL and all other states' permits/licenses is completely irrelevant. If you will notice the exception that is in Federal law for firearms licenses permits the requirement is that the license be issued by the same state the school zone is in. Not recognized by - ISSUED by. If you are truly an E-8 as your icon suggests then you should know the difference between the words ISSUED and RECOGNIZED. The ATF also confirms the difference between the words issued by and recognized:

http://www.handgunlaw.us/documents/batf_school_zone.pdf

The law clearly provides that in order to qualify as an
exception to the general prohibitions of the Gun-Free
School Zones Act, the license must be issued by the State
in which the school zone is located or a political
subdivision of that State. A concealed weapons license or
permit from any other State would not satisfy the criteria
set forth in the law.
For purposes of the GFSZA, in order to fall within this
limited exception, the permit must be issued by the State
itself. Accordingly, your possession of a Virginia
concealed weapons permit would not exempt you from the
prohibitions of the Gun-Free School Zones Act in States
that honor other State permits by legal agreement.

Same with the drive thru the post office drop box that's outside.

Oh, really? Maybe you should check the law before you continue to babble on. It is better that others think you a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.

eCFR ? Code of Federal Regulations

39 CFR (Code of Federal Regulations) 232.1:

§232.1 Conduct on postal property.

(a) Applicability. This section applies to all real property under the charge and control of the Postal Service, to all tenant agencies, and to all persons entering in or on such property. This section shall be posted and kept posted at a conspicuous place on all such property.

(l) Weapons and explosives. Notwithstanding the provisions of any other law, rule or regulation, no person while on postal property may carry firearms, other dangerous or deadly weapons, or explosives, either openly or concealed, or store the same on postal property, except for official purposes.

You do understand the words above on postal property and all real property under the charge and control of the Postal Service, right? If you really are an E-8, I would think that you would.

I was very careful to use exact and specific words in my post, "Or the drive through mail drop boxes on real post office property. I guess nobody has ever driven onto post office property, dropped a letter in the mail box, and driven away with a gun in their vehicle." So tell me how driving onto post office property in order to drop a mail in the mail box located at a real post office with a gun in the vehicle is not carrying or storing a firearm on post office property?

Sounds like I struck a cord because you committed felonies and want your civil rights restored. What separates us from third world countries in the rules that our elected politicians put in place. Don't be upset because you chose not to follow these rules & now don't understand why your rights are restricted. If you are truly changed go before a judge & get your rights restored. Don't act like you were treated wrongly, you broke the law. Your actions have consequences.

Maybe you should check exactly who you are replying to before you continue to babble as you accuse me of doing. I have not been convicted of anything higher than a traffic infraction. No misdemeanor or felony convictions on my record. I possess a Washington State Concealed Pistol License and a military security clearance.

Have a nice day, sarge.

 

[BluesStringer]

What separates us from third world countries in the rules that our elected politicians put in place.

Firefighterchen and NavyLCDR nailed your mistakes about the law already, so I just want to understand the above little gem.

I contend that everything a politician does is supposed to be in We, The People's interests. What separates us from third world countries is that it is We, The People who created the government, thus making We, The People the sole beneficiaries of the government's actions. There is absolutely zero constitutional authority given the government to make We, The People targets of its power and authority. We are its mother and father, and it's only constitutional obligation is to protect and preserve our hard-won freedoms and liberties. The government has no authority to intrude in every aspect of our lives. When the government goes rogue and starts acting against We, The People's interests, then those actions are not legitimate functions of this government, and We, The People have no obligation to follow diktats that fall into that category. In fact, We, The People have the solemn duty to resist and cast off rogue government.

If you still think your description of "what separates us from third world countries" is correct, and what I say here is wrong, you're on the other side, besides being rather clueless about the laws being discussed on top of that.

Blues

 

[sarge98597]

RCW 9.41.280
Possessing dangerous weapons on school facilities — Penalty — Exceptions.

(3) Subsection (1) of this section does not apply to:
(e) Any person in possession of a pistol who has been issued a license under RCW 9.41.070, or is exempt from the licensing requirement by RCW 9.41.060, while picking up or dropping off a student;

 

[sarge98597]

I am a retired 1SG.

RCW 9.41.280
Possessing dangerous weapons on school facilities — Penalty — Exceptions.

(3) Subsection (1) of this section does not apply to:
(e) Any person in possession of a pistol who has been issued a license under RCW 9.41.070, or is exempt from the licensing requirement by RCW 9.41.060, while picking up or dropping off a student.

I am not here to fight & argue. We are both on the same side. The right side. The 2nd amendment side. You quoted a law that was not totally accurate for schools in Washington state. I am a man & I admit I was wrong I thought you were the one who had the permit denied. That's on me.

 

[NavyLCDR]

I am not here to fight & argue. We are both on the same side. The right side. The 2nd amendment side. You quoted a law that was not totally accurate for schools in Washington state. I am a man & I admit I was wrong I thought you were the one who had the permit denied. That's on me.

Well, your edited reply is certainly more friendly than your reply before you edited it. However the law I quoted is COMPLETELY, 100% accurate for schools in Washington state. Yes, a person with a CPL can pick up or drop off a student on school property while possessing a loaded handgun in Washington. I have done it countless times with my daughter and haven't violated any law, state or Federal, because the school zones are in Washington state and I have a CPL issued by Washington state. However, that law is completely irrelevant to the discussion we were having because we were never talking about a person with a Washington CPL possessing a loaded handgun in a school zone in Washington. In my post #9 which you originally replied to I specifically stated, "you are carrying a firearm in a state that recognizes your out-of-state permit (such as a Washington resident with a WA CPL carrying a firearm in Idaho)." When you are carrying a loaded firearm in a school zone with a permit that is issued by a different state than the school zone is located in, it is completely 100% irrelevant if state law allows you to possess that firearm or not. Because the 100% applicable Federal law, 18 USC 922 (q)(2) still applies and you will be violating Federal law even though you are in 100% compliance with state law.

Just like everyone who is using Marijuana in Washington state (and the other states that do not prohibit it) - they are 100% in compliance with state law and not violating any state law, but they are still violating the Federal law that 100% still applies.

Sure, you might not be here to argue law. But people need to know what the actual law is so they can decide if they willingly want to violate it and that is why I insist on correcting errors such as in your post. The Federal Gun Free School Zone Act is completely worthless and millions of people violate it every day, but I would hate to see someone violate it unknowingly because someone on the internet provided them with erroneous information.

 

[MZIngrahmm]

I have to agree.
This part is particularly creepy:
"I also have a federal felony related to mail theft that I had dismissed."

Given your record, I am not surprised at the denial.

 

[MZIngrahmm]

I disagree but not to a big deal extent.
You are only a felon if convicted as one. Those things which would have been felonious but escaped the system and process are irrelevant. The difference is between law and justice - I don't see the two as interchangeable. Additionally, the system is bloated with laws invented from the rotten black minds of legalists, "Pharisees." if you will, for corporate and political lucrativeness at the expense of ordinary citizens.
If I obey common law, which is fundamentally God's law, and break the laws designed for control and manipulation while evading prosecution, then I'm truly practicing liberty to a higher degree than one who quivers through life obeying every jot and tittle of the law.

Most people think that they are not felons because they have no convictions. A felon is a person that commits an act that is felonious in its nature. Is Bill Clinton a liar...nah...he was never prosecuted for perjury before a federal judge therefore he is not a felon either. Anyone ever pass a joint to someone at the party when you were young...guess what...you are a felon! Folks let us without sin cast the first stone...oh oh your not a Christian either. Okay...go on and righteously proclaim your the new messiah!