I am not questioning what is legal. What I am playing devil's advocate is with civil liability. Can you possibly have a civil judgment against you for your actions? Criminal deals with what is legal. Civil deals with everything but what is legal. Does a judge and jury believe you were civilly wrong in your actions. A different measurement.
As I stated earlier, once you get your CCW in whatever state you have decided that you are open to civil liability. It is one of the pitfalls of concealed carry.
Bernie Goetz and OJ Simpson were vindicated of criminal wrong doing. So by that reasoning they should not have had double digit million dollar civil judgments against them.
If the second Grand Jury had not dismissed as a result of pending charges against the young men that attacked him, Bernie would indeed have been charged with assault and attempted murder based on his testimony and the testimony of those he shot.
OJ is a ridiculous example, as his has nothing to do with justifiable homicide that we are discussing here.
What I am advocating is conducting yourself in such a manner where you won't get served with a civil suit.
You will most likely be hit with a civil suit regardless of the caliber you carry, unless in a state with immunity. So, I really think this is a moot point.
The best way to defend a lawsuit is don't be a party to one just like the best way to win a gunfight is not to be there or for you movie buffs and in honor of the late Pat Morita, "The best way to block punch is no be there."
This is true, however, anyone who carries has already made the decision to endure possible arrest, prosecution and civil actions.
This is the one statement I agree with. Just because you were legally right, were not charged or the grand jury returns no bill does not mean you will not be served with a civil suit by the person whom you legally used lethal force against or that person's estate.
This is true as well, but the estate is not going to base the bringing of their case on what caliber you used to take the life of the BG.
If I read this thread correctly, you live in Florida where you have civil suit immunity for a justifable homicide. I live in a State where that applies only to your domicile. Your State protects you where you don't need to care what local LEOs carry. You only need to care if you fall within the statutory requirements of justifiable homicide within your State. Travel outside of your State then you better be concerned.
The bottom line is that even in Florida these statutes have not yet really been tested. I have said it before and repeat it again, the most important issue is never going to be what ammunition you used, but whether or not you followed the statutes related to the use of deadly force.
In the unfortunate event that any of us is required to use deadly force, I would hope that having been properly trained and having a good attorney we will prevail
A majority of the defensive trainers are active duty, reserve or retired law enforcement, military, or executive protection. How many of them have been on the business end of a lawsuit, coroner's inquest, other legal proceeding or regularly have been used as expert witnesses? Probably those in disagreement with my opinion.
You have not presented any opinions of those who you believe would counter my observation, so I am not sure that it matters what I say.
Jessie Ventura is a former Navy SEAL. He's better trained that most of us, certainly me. Would I ask him to defend me or be an expert witness if I was involved in a self defense shooting? No. Would I ask him on proper self defense techniques and his advice as a personal trainer, absolutely.
Jon Gutmacher who wrote what is considered the bible concerning Florida Gun law, which is used by numerous police training academies, as well as law enforcement agencies is my go to. He is a seasoned litigator, a staunch supporter of the 2nd Amendment, and a CWL holder.
Like most writers on this subject, his opinion is to do what is necessary to stop the attack, but makes it clear that eventhough we do the best of our ability to follow the letter of the law as it relates to deadly use of force, we shoud be prepared the possibility of arrest and prosecution.
In other words, as I have said before, you either have the right mindset of carry or you don't.
A majority of your self defense trainers deal with the mechanics of how to properly use your firearm, not in the legal aftermath of what to do after the shooting.
Same as above.
How about if I throw this scenario out.
Let's assume that OK did not have civil suit immunity for justifiable homicide in one's home. Those familar with the OK SDA know that the largest caliber you can legally carry under the authority of a CCW is .45.
You get involved in your OK home in a self defense shooting. You shoot the attacker with a .475 or a .50 caliber handgun. Do you believe that you would successfully come out of a civil suit unscathed? At the bare minimum you'd have to pay a retainer to an attorney.
Fortunately OK does have civil suit immunity for their castle doctrine.
You will have to pay an attorney a retainer for just about any shooting that takes place, you would not be wise to do otherwise.
I am not familiar with OK, and whether it is legal to have firearms in the home without a CCW, so it is difficult to answer the question.
Since it is legal to carry up to a .45, and since most people I know keep their carry weapon close by if not on their person while at home, I see no reason why a caliber above that which is legal shoulld be used.
In most of the cases I have seen where a civil suit if filed, it is never because the caliber of the fireram came into play, but because there was question as to whether there was sufficient evidence to warrant the use of deadly force.
To use Goetz, your own test case, one learns that he was considered to be reckless in his use of force. He was almost charged under a second Grand Jury, but it was dismissed when two of the men he shot came under additional felony charges of other crimes.
Are you aware that he attempted to shoot one of the suspects a second time after emptying the five rounds. Are you aware that in a statement, which he later recanted, but was testified to by others, he stated, "You don't look that bad, have another." These are the things which caused the ensuing civil suit against him. He is very lucky that the crime rate was as high as it was at the time, and that the people of N.Y. saw him as a victim. I was born and raised there and remember the case, as it was well before I moved to Florida. Today, he would be spending a very long time in prison.