DA/SA or SA (ie: 1911)

[rrc1962]

I got into this discussion about the difference under stress in a DA/SA decocked with no safety vs an SA 1911 with thumb and grip safeties. On the DA/SA side you have the long trigger pull on the first round and no manual safety. On the SA side you have a nice consistent trigger on all shots but have a safety to remember. Trigger management is more critical as not to accidentally fire a round while covering a BG.

Remember, we're talking under stress here. BG catches you off guard and get a round off. You have to draw and return fire. Which gun would you rather have in this situation?

 

[wolfhunter]

1911 everytime.

 

[Mr. Vegas]

+1 I don't think you could top a 1911 in that kind of situation.

1911 all the way!

 

[rrc1962]

That was my opinion as well. I don't currently own one but I have owned Colt and Taurus 1911's. Their argument was that in the heat of battle, (1) remembering the safety could be an issue and (2) the light trigger on that first round could cause an accidental discharge under stress.

I think (1) the safety is a training issue. Forgetting to decock the DA/SA could be just as dangerous. Now you have an SA with no safety. (2) Proper trigger management goes a long way. If your finger is off the trigger until you're ready to throw lead, the gun won't fire. If you need to cover a suspect until he's in restraints, do it with your finger in register. The trigger on the Glock is not quite as short and the 1911, but it is close and just as light. The guys I was arguing this with were all Glock users. When tried side by side all but one admitted that unless your finger is in register, the chances of an AD with either are ab out equal. The 1911 has the added benefit of the thumb and grip safety.

The only real issue I see is conditioning yourself to always turn off the safety, which just gets back to training.

 

[HK4U]

DBl action over the single action type of handgun. I have come to like even better the newer DBL action only over the single action or the DA/SA. Guns such as my HK2000SL LEM, Glock , etc. Safer to carry with less of a chance of a negligent discharge that can happen with a single action and no change of trigger pull that comes with DA/SA.

 

[rrc1962]

Is the HK true DAO? Although they claim it is, the Glock isn't really DAO since racking the slide is what cocks the firing pin. A DAO gun should allow you to pull the trigger on a misfire. IE: Trigger pull cocks the pin/hammer. The Glock trigger does not cock the firing pin so,they more closely fits the SA category.

 

[HK4U]

Is the HK true DAO? Although they claim it is, the Glock isn't really DAO since racking the slide is what cocks the firing pin. A DAO gun should allow you to pull the trigger on a misfire. IE: Trigger pull cocks the pin/hammer. The Glock trigger does not cock the firing pin so,they more closely fits the SA category.

Here is a little info on the LEM trigger

Firearms - The USP LEM Trigger Module by Mark Freburg

 

[DarrellM5]

It all depends on how well the shooter can operate a particular pistol. My primary carry pistol, a Sig P229R in .40 S&W, is DA/SA and I can shoot it well in either mode under stress. Granted this is the stress of timers and targets that don't shoot back but all the bullets are going to the same place. If a person has any problems with the different trigger pulls transitioning from DA to SA, they should get a Single action only or Double action only.

The important thing is lots of dry practice involving draws from the holster. This will ingrain switching the safety off and on for 1911 shooters and will build the muscle memory necessary to get your hits regardless of SA/DA mode.

In a gunfight, you will revert to the way you trained.

 

[Mr. Vegas]

straying from the topic but, I read that a glock trigger does more than just release the striker this is what I found:

the part that bears no resemblance to anything on a 1911 or anything else at all. Where the final action of the trigger press that detonates the cartridge in a traditional pistol can be described as a simple falling block, the same action in a Glock is more like a slingshot. The final stage of the trigger press completes the full draw of the firing pin back against its own spring, disengages the third and final safety mechanism so that the firing pin at last has free and clear sailing and releases it to detonate the cartridge.

so in a sense the glock's striker isn't fully cocked until the trigger is fully depressed? does this in a way classify it as a DA.??

I know this was a big selling point about the springfield xd series because the striker is fully cocked within the first half inch of the slide bieng racked rearward. The only function of the xd trigger is to release the striker..

this is how they got such a crisp trigger on the springfield...?? don't know if my research is correct so please corrrect me if I'm wrong about the glock, I've never owned one but have shot them and wondered why the pull felt so much different on my xd...not to knock the glock by any means, was just hoping for a little clarification

 

[rrc1962]

this is how they got such a crisp trigger on the springfield...?? don't know if my research is correct so please corrrect me if I'm wrong about the glock, I've never owned one but have shot them and wondered why the pull felt so much different on my xd...not to knock the glock by any means, was just hoping for a little clarification

I think the Glock trigger kind of falls into a category of it's own. It's note really DAO because if it were you would be able to refire a hard primer. It's not really SA because as you mentioned, pulling the trigger does more than just releasing the firing pin. All DAO guns I've had in my hand cocked when the trigger was pulled, just like a DOA revolver. The Glock doesn't operate like that, but they call it DAO. I'm not saying that's a bad thing.

 

[rrc1962]

It all depends on how well the shooter can operate a particular pistol. My primary carry pistol, a Sig P229R in .40 S&W, is DA/SA and I can shoot it well in either mode under stress. Granted this is the stress of timers and targets that don't shoot back but all the bullets are going to the same place. If a person has any problems with the different trigger pulls transitioning from DA to SA, they should get a Single action only or Double action only.

We spent the afternoon at the range with a Springfield 1911, a Sig P220, a Ruger GP100 and a Ruger SP101. All of them were great shooting guns. The Sig is on my want list now. I had no trouble with the SA/DA action. I was able to double tap 2" groups at 25'. The first round being DA and the second SA. My PT92 has the same action so I am sort of used to it. I was able to shoot a tighter grouping with the 1911, but felt more comfortable with the decocked P220 in a quick draw simulation.