CPL holder shoots armed robber, robber's family calls for stricter gun control….

[ezkl2230]

This shooting took place two years ago in SC, but the video has only recently been released - and the family of the dead robber, who say "there is no doubt he entered the Waffle House in Chesnee back in January of 2012 intent on robbing it," also say there was no need for their son to die and are calling for stricter CPL training and licensing guidelines.

The shooter and a friend entered a Waffle House with a gun drawn, ordered everyone on the floor, and demanded money. Everyone, except the defender, who was sitting at the counter, complied. The video shows the gunmen going around the restaurant, and then they approach the defender, still sitting at the bar ("They're yelling 'everybody get down, get down' and I'm not getting on the floor. I am not going to be a victim," Harrison said."). As they approach the defender, he stands up and fires his own gun, hitting the gunman in the chest and head; his accomplice escaped after a brief struggle for the defender's gun, but was caught later and convicted. No charges were filed on the defender.

The family is now calling for stricter training before issuing a concealed pistol license, arguing that their son wasn't actually approaching the defender to rob him, but was actually heading out the door when he was shot. A cousin, who says that if the defender had better training, he would not have pulled the trigger, had this to say:

"I understand he felt threatened by the situation," McSwain said. "But he said the gun was pointed at him so he fired. In fact he (Williams) was walking out."McSwain admits that Williams made a terrible decision the night he died.
"It still puzzles us as to why he would do something so crazy," said McSwain.
Williams actions were out of character for the Dorman High School senior who his family said had never been in trouble before.

"He was always sharp, always goofy, loved to dance, he was a respectable boy," McSwain said.

Of course, there is the obligatory, "he was such a good boy who NEVER got into trouble," line.

Link Removed

 

[cds0699]

I have zero sympathy, their son made a terrible choice and he paid the price that comes along with it. People are responsible for their actions and the concealed carrier did nothing wrong, their son did.

Sent from my HTCONE using Tapatalk

 

[vernsimpson]

Typical lib BS! Everyone is at fault except the "such a good boy" idiot!

 

[CharlieK]

"......Williams actions were out of character for the Dorman High School senior who his family said had never been in trouble before."
Out of character? Garbage!! If it were out of character, he would NOT have done that, but since he did it, that proves that it WAS IN CHARACTER.

 

[ezkl2230]

The report doesn't say it exactly, but it almost sounds like the defender went Mogadishu on the BG. It says the BG took rounds to the chest and the head.

 

[CharlesMorrison]

Play stupid games, Win stupid prizes....
This tool is right where he belongs...6 feet under.

Sent from behind Enemy Lines.

 

[Paul_of_TX]

The report doesn't say it exactly, but it almost sounds like the defender went Mogadishu on the BG. It says the BG took rounds to the chest and the head.

They guy was outnumbered. He had no way of knowing if the other guy could have also had a gun. What would you suggest he do? Fire one round then count how many rounds are fired back at him and then fire that same number of rounds back at the bad guys? If the first round fired killed the BG then all he did was waste his won ammo. If the first round didn't kill the BG then the other rounds were required. The fact that he didn't shoot the second guy sort of works against you that he went overboard with the shooting. In the end nobody was hurt except for the guy who came in and pointed a gun at innocent people in order to rob them. I don't think there is any room to criticize him here unless we find out he emptied his magazine into the first guy and had nothing left for the second guy.

 

[ezkl2230]

They guy was outnumbered. He had no way of knowing if the other guy could have also had a gun. What would you suggest he do? Fire one round then count how many rounds are fired back at him and then fire that same number of rounds back at the bad guys? If the first round fired killed the BG then all he did was waste his won ammo. If the first round didn't kill the BG then the other rounds were required. The fact that he didn't shoot the second guy sort of works against you that he went overboard with the shooting. In the end nobody was hurt except for the guy who came in and pointed a gun at innocent people in order to rob them. I don't think there is any room to criticize him here unless we find out he emptied his magazine into the first guy and had nothing left for the second guy.

Who said anything about going overboard? All I did was observe, given the brief description of where the defender's rounds impacted, that he may have employed a well-executed Mogadishu drill on the BG - 2 to the chest, and one to the head. Nothing overboard about that at all.

 

[CapGun]

The criminal's family should have given him stricter upbringing and more intense social and religious training. That may have helped him discern between right and wrong!:triniti:

 

[dstryr]

Have heard it two ways now, BG shot as he was walking away and shot in the chest. Can't be both, so I'm going to trust at this point the report that he was shot in the chest is accurate and precludes the idea that he was leaving the waffle house.

 

[Bluestar99]

Why do these things always happen to "Good Boys" the funny ones who love to dance and goof around? I have yet to hear someone say, that guy was an SOB, who hated everyone and was always in trouble. That's what he gets !

 

[chilipeppernorm]

A perfect example of a trained and responsible citizen deploying his weapon appropriately to protect himself and others in accordance with everyone's Constitutional rights. The BG established his character and intent the second he produced a weapon and threatened with intent to rob the patrons. The purpose of anyone using his/her lawful weapon is to stop the threat, and in this case that took the form of rounds to the chest and head which is classic self defense doctrine. Somebody on this forum has a tag line that says "Don't start nothin, won't be nothin", this should be the epitaph on the BG's headstone.

 

[ezkl2230]

Have heard it two ways now, BG shot as he was walking away and shot in the chest. Can't be both, so I'm going to trust at this point the report that he was shot in the chest is accurate and precludes the idea that he was leaving the waffle house.

The prosecutor found the defender was justified in his shooting, so I doubt the BG was shot in the back. I don't believe SC has a fleeing felon rule.

 

[Rocketgeezer]

We, my wife and I don't go to waffle house any more, prices got just a little to high for what you get, which isn't much, on subject those kids like most BG robbers were not thinking right, with the popularity of people getting permits and carrying guns, if you have 20 people in the restaurant, one or two may have a permit and are carrying, of course that's not say they would do what this guy did, but given the same circumstances as reported, I or my wife would have done the exact same thing, and being the second moron tried to grab the gun he would have a hollow point for his trouble, I'm sorry that this person had to die, but one thing you can count on is it is almost a certainty that this was not the first time he and his buddy did something bad, and sooner or later he would not have walked into a place and instead of ordering people to the floor, he would have just started shooting, and killed how many innocent people, then maybe he would have been arrested and thanks to the great lawyers out there, he probably spent the next 30 years in jail on the taxpayers dime..................did any of you know that is cost more to keep a inmate behind bars, with free food, housing, medical care, for one week than a lot of people make in a two or three weeks, now please understand I don't want it to look like I'm not trying to lower the cost of a human life, but in this particular case, in that waffle house that night, this guy saved the taxpayers several thousands dollars for the cost of may 3 bucks worth of bullits,

 

[longslide10]

Personally I don't think Mr Harrison needs any more training like the dead perp's relatives suggest. He delivered a head shot and another to the chest. My hat's off to ya Mr H.

 

[r1derbike]

Keep shooting until the attack has stopped. It doesn't say, "shoot once, stop, count how many bullets come whizzing by your head and into your body, then resume fire, if able..."

If all these robbers with guns are, "really good kids", I'd hate to see what the bad kids are like...

I saw no shots at a retreating robber/murderer. The lady in the video must have a history of lying when a camera is on...

This self-defense shooting was justified, looking at the video alone.

 

[BluesStringer]

The report doesn't say it exactly, but it almost sounds like the defender went Mogadishu on the BG. It says the BG took rounds to the chest and the head.

That's exactly what happened. Here's the original story that we discussed starting within a day or two of the incident.

After the most virulent anti-sheepdog types polluted the thread with page after page of copious amounts of wholly erroneous conjecture and recriminations for the shooter, Justin Harrison registered here to set the record straight. Not sure how or why he chose this particular forum to make his case at as I'm sure the case was being discussed just as hot and heavy at most gun forums, but nonetheless, "snipingshadow" drew a very complete mental picture for everybody when he posted for the first time somewhere around Post #350. He posted throughout the rest of the mega-thread before it finally died out, and as far as I know, it was the only thread Justin participated in. Some weeks or months after the last time I'd looked at the thread, I went back to try to find something I'd posted there, and realized that Justin had deleted most of his posts. The ones he left had little or nothing to do with the details of the shooting, so I figured he'd been advised by an attorney to take the detailed ones down or something. Whatever, the only posts of his left that have any details are ones that someone else quoted, and I did find the one that had the most details, which was in reply to Firefighterchen's questioning about how he thought it might've gone if he had been open carrying. He just spent a little bit of time answering that, and then went into the whole event the way it happened in his own words. Here's that post, #427:

If i was open carrying then no doubt i would have been the first one they saw and would have had a gun pointed at me before i could even react if not just to take my gun and shoot me with it. Your best bet is to conceal and catch them by surprise because if you strike first your chances of survival are far better. They were somewhat organized and disorganized. Yes they would have seen an officer if he was in uniform as one went to search the bathrooms and the other went to search for the head waitress. They cut the phone line before rushing in but if you really want to establish dominance you come in and you kill someone off the start so that nobody questions your authority. I would speculate that most armed robberies are directly correlated to drug use. With that being said you cant predict what any of these animals are thinking or going to do. They came in like it was a game. Almost like chanting the words you know what time it is mothafuckas ya yah get down get down if you move you're gunna die in a very cocky fashion. They ordered people on the ground and shuffled the sheep to one side of the restaurant but turned their backs to me and started robbing the other people after i didnt panic and comply. They unknowingly just majorly stacked the odds in my favor. Only 3 guys at chest level so shooting and hitting a civilian was not a worry at all. All of this took about a minute and a half. My POV is flawed as when you are stuck in this type of incident then its like time slows. Also, the only time i really looked at them is when i drew and watched the guy get done robbing the ppl and turned in my direction then after i stood up all i seen was his chest. I heard a few pops but not the loud reports like on the range and i heard a specific girl's scream. I do know for a fact that the guy with the gun was taking his sweet time. The other guy only crossed my field of view to go get the waitress but i never focused in on him. I would say they would have probably been out in about 3 minutes if i wouldnt have been there or would have complied with what they wanted. If they were halfway smart, but lets face it they are criminals, then my actions should have signaled that messing with me was bad news. Kinda like that quiet kid that sits in the back corner and never messes with anybody. But my personal opinion is that I am not gambling with my life. Open carrying is asking for trouble. Yes it might keep it from happening but what if it doesn't or they are on drugs and cocky-like and decide they are gunna come in anyway and they are going to shoot at the guy with the gun first. That puts you having to react instead of acting. If you are reacting you dont have control of the situation. Keep it hidden and give yourself a few extra seconds to think of a tactic and then execute without second guessing but most importantly buy you some extra time to live and at least be given the chance to fight back. Again this is just my opinion and do what you think will serve you best.

Besides that post, I can say that my recollection is that the video ezkl2230 posted a link to validates every single thing Justin Harrison ever said about the incident. I was glad to be able to put a face to the name and nick-name. Thanks for posting it ezkl2230.

Blues

 

[Ghost Rider]

Those people are never guilty of anything, its always the other persons fault, then they piss and moan and cry when a law abiding citizen takes them out. The kid was a scum bag and he got what he deserved, Period.

 

[S&W645]

They guy was outnumbered. He had no way of knowing if the other guy could have also had a gun. What would you suggest he do? Fire one round then count how many rounds are fired back at him and then fire that same number of rounds back at the bad guys? If the first round fired killed the BG then all he did was waste his won ammo. If the first round didn't kill the BG then the other rounds were required. The fact that he didn't shoot the second guy sort of works against you that he went overboard with the shooting. In the end nobody was hurt except for the guy who came in and pointed a gun at innocent people in order to rob them. I don't think there is any room to criticize him here unless we find out he emptied his magazine into the first guy and had nothing left for the second guy.

It looked like in the first part of the video that he did have a gun out too.

 

[Paul_of_TX]

Who said anything about going overboard? All I did was observe, given the brief description of where the defender's rounds impacted, that he may have employed a well-executed Mogadishu drill on the BG - 2 to the chest, and one to the head. Nothing overboard about that at all.

I guess I have to chalk this one up to my ignorance of the term "Mogadishu" or the Mogadishu drill. I now understand what you are talking about. I thought by saying he went Mogadishu you were saying he went crazy on him and that is why the BG was shot multiple times. Maybe I went overboard in my response to your comment due to my ignorance of the term you used. Sorry, my bad. Sounds like the two of us are in agreement on this one.