Covid Camps: Are government round-ups of resistors in our future?


Ringo

A WATCHMAN

Covid Camps: Are government round-ups of resistors in our future?​

"It’s no longer a question of whether the government will lock up Americans for defying its mandates but when."

 

Oldgrunt

Active member
For years the Deep State has been making preparations for everything happening today. All their plans are coming to fruition and their actions are no longer covert but totally blatant and in the open. If you will recall, Dr. Fauci told Trump at the beginning of his term he would be faced with a pandemic and, sure enough, three years later, here comes COVID 19, and from the Chinese lab in Wuhan which he sponsors monetarily. Then a vaccine is developed which, instead of helping people, is killing them. The Deep State/NWO has gone to war with us and has, thus far, received little pushback against a corrupt government. Think COVID camps could be in our future? Absolutely! Punishment for not obeying the corrupt government? Uh huh. Total ostracism from "society"? Beheadings? Unfortunately, all this can be verified by the Bible, even up to today.

Matt, 7:13-14 tells of two ways that lie ahead of us.

13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.


The first is the wide gate leading to destruction. The second leads to everlasting life. The choice is ours to make . We're down to the wire folks, no more procrastinating. Choose wisely!

The saddening part of what is happening is that it has been foretold for two thousand years and mostly ignored by the general populace, world wide. Now, evil can no longer be ignored, it is banging on our doors. Want to know what is happening Read II Thes., Chapter 2.
 

Ringo

A WATCHMAN
Because the Lord wanted us to know exactly how much time we had left before the RAPTURE, He told us three times in three different Gospels, exactly word for word... (Matthew 24:34 - Mark 13:30 - Luke 21:32 ). Still there are those who willfully choose to remain ignorant and Left Behind.
 

Ringo

A WATCHMAN
Because the Lord wanted us to know exactly how much time we had left before the RAPTURE, He told us three times in three different Gospels, exactly word for word... (Matthew 24:34 - Mark 13:30 - Luke 21:32 ). Still there are those who willfully choose to remain ignorant and Left Behind.
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Cyr

New member
Because the Lord wanted us to know exactly how much time we had left before the RAPTURE, He told us three times in three different Gospels, exactly word for word... (Matthew 24:34 - Mark 13:30 - Luke 21:32 ). Still there are those who willfully choose to remain ignorant and Left Behind.
There is no scriptural proof, whatsoever, that the rapture exists and/or is an established tenet of orthodox Christianity. Until John Nelson Darby invented the concept of a so-called Rapture at and about 1830,

THE RAPTURE DID NOT EXIST!

Modern rapture doctrine is nonsense that only overly sentimental and timorous (mostly Protestant) believers like to parrot back and forth to each other. The truth is that it ain't going to happen—Ever! The rapture is undocumented scriptural nonsense. Let me remind you that on the one hand Moses said,

"What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it." (Deuteronomy 12:21)

And on the other hand the Apostle John said,

"For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:"

"And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book." (Revelation 22:18-19)

The scriptural lesson, the spiritual message, is clear: No man should ever add to, or take away from the dictates of Sacred Scripture. When John Nelson Darby ( a man who led an uncertain and often confused life) invented the rapture doctrine he violated one of the Holy Bible's most fundamental tenets:

DO NOT ADD TO, NOR DETRACT FROM SACRED SCRIPTURE!

Which, during the middle decades of the nineteenth century, John Nelson Darby had the audacity and foolishness to attempt to do with his apostate rapture theology.
 

Ringo

A WATCHMAN
There is no scriptural proof, whatsoever, that the rapture exists and/or is an established tenet of orthodox Christianity. Until John Nelson Darby invented the concept of a so-called Rapture at and about 1830,

THE RAPTURE DID NOT EXIST!

Modern rapture doctrine is nonsense that only overly sentimental and timorous (mostly Protestant) believers like to parrot back and forth to each other. The truth is that it ain't going to happen—Ever! The rapture is undocumented scriptural nonsense. Let me remind you that on the one hand Moses said,

"What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it." (Deuteronomy 12:21)

And on the other hand the Apostle John said,

"For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:"

"And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book." (Revelation 22:18-19)

The scriptural lesson, the spiritual message, is clear: No man should ever add to, or take away from the dictates of Sacred Scripture. When John Nelson Darby ( a man who led an uncertain and often confused life) invented the rapture doctrine he violated one of the Holy Bible's most fundamental tenets:

DO NOT ADD TO, NOR DETRACT FROM SACRED SCRIPTURE!

Which, during the middle decades of the nineteenth century, John Nelson Darby had the audacity and foolishness to attempt to do with his apostate rapture theology.
Regardless of what your clergy, pastor, priest, or preach has to say about the Rapture, it is in the Bible as both a concept and a reality. If they deny it, or dismiss the teaching of it, or say that it is some modern “doctrine of men,” I would walk away from that church and never look back. Those who doubt that the Rapture is a real event, need to have an honest assessment of their faith and recognize that God resurrecting the dead or translating the mortals to immortality, is not a) new concept or b) impossible.

More than a thousand years before Darby's ignorance was manifest, the Scriptures read as such...

"For this we say to you by the word of the Lord (John 14:1-3), that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words.” – 1st Thess. 4:15-18.

"Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed-in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.” – 1st Corinthians 15:51-54
 

Oldgrunt

Active member
I may not agree with Cyr's interpretation of Biblical teachings, but I at least commend him for having enough interest to enter into a dialogue concerning Biblical prophecy and our future.

I do disagree with his assertion that "THE RAPTURE DID NOT EXIST."(sic). The Rapture, by whatever description you choose to call it, is not a past event but one that will occur sometime in the future, as attested by many scriptures. The term Rapture is not used but what the Bible alludes to is essentially the same. ( "a rose by any other name.....). Don't get hung up on semantics. There can be a great carrying away of saved souls any day by Jesus and, by whatever name you want to call it, the only concern will be if you are one of those chosen!

"And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book."
(Revelation 22:18-19) Correct me if I' m wrong but I take that to mean the Book of Revelation. However, no biggie, I believe it all.

Modern rapture doctrine is nonsense that only overly sentimental and timorous (mostly Protestant) believers like to parrot back and forth to each other. The truth is that it ain't going to happen—Ever! The rapture is undocumented scriptural nonsense. Let me remind you that on the one hand Moses said,


I am a nominal Catholic but do believe in the Rapture. The leadership in my church seems to have derailed but our belief is in God remains firm. Many do believe in the Rapture and we will not be deterred by those who may not believe. Your choice.
 

Cyr

New member
My compliments, Gentlemen and fellow Christians! Those were both cogent and civil replies. Of course I knew that I Thessalonians 4:15-18, and I Corinthians 15:51-54 would be forthcoming. I was hoping that Revelation 22:18-19 might not, but it did anyway.

All three of these scriptures are—as we, all, know—abstruse and open to a wide range of interpretation (which would not be revealed until the 'end times') The presumption to agree with Darby and apply his particular understanding of I Thessalonians and I Corinthians to a so-called 'rapture event' depends in large part upon a believer's accurate understanding of: life, death, and judgment. An acquired understanding that, in my more than 70 years on this planet I have found most people not to possess. (It's a 'mystery', right, and needs to be prayed and reflected upon.)

Here I would appreciate being allowed to also remind of another pertinent scripture that rapture theology additionally violates:

"I charge thee therefore before God, and The Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at His appearing and His Kingdom. Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears, and they shall turn away their ears from The Truth, and shall be turned unto fables; but watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry." (II Titus 4:1-4)

Let's close with a brief history of how Darby developed his rapture theory:

In regard to the so-called, ‘rapture’ I thought you might find the following information to be useful: First there’s Matthew 24. The entire chapter is useful; but, verses 15-25 are particularly so .....

Then there’s this article on, The Origins Of Modern, ‘Rapture Theory’

Which, pretty much says it all. John Nelson Darby popularized the so-call, ‘rapture’; but, a certain Miss Margaret MacDonald initially conceptualized and imaginatively created the original event during the spring of 1830.

Margaret MacDonald’s imaginative initial explanations, and John Darby’s subsequent contrived rationalizations of a so-called, ‘rapture’ are NOT taught in the Holy Bible; nor should this deviant theology be (erroneously) extrapolated from,

I Thessalonians 4:13-18.

Neither does, Luke 17:20-37 teach any such event as a physical removal of the mortal body from harm. No Christian community held to any such vividly imaginative theological interpretation BEFORE April of 1830!

Before April of 1830 there is NO MENTION, WHATSOEVER, of any sort of, ‘rapture’ inside any variation of Judeo-Christian worship.

‘Rapture theology’ is strictly an invention of the Scottish Protestant Church that, in recent years, has become wildly popular among various Christian sects of: ‘fundamentalist’, ‘born again’,and, ‘TV evangelist’ persuasion.

Cyrus Scofield, and his now famous Scofield Bible, used a simple footnote in order to add credulity to, ‘rapture theology’; and, thereafter, popular sentimentalist TV evangelists like: Hal Lindsey, Tim LaHaye, Grant Jeffreys, and Jack Van Impe all began parroting the presumed benefits of a, ‘Christians Get Out Of Jail Free Card’ dispensed to their followers with the compliments of today’s magical, ‘rapture theology’.

Not, by any stretch of the imagination, to allow themselves to be outdone, several large sectarian Christian churches like the: Southern Baptists, Mormons, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Pentecostals, and Seventh Day Adventists have, all, elected to go along with Darby, Scofield, and the TV evangelists, and support the modern contrivance of artfully imagined, ‘rapture events’ - Events for which there is utterly no biblically clear nor historically referenced proof!

Here’s more on the history of the modern, ‘rapture’.

The Rapture: A Popular, But False, Doctrine!

Finally, and even though it’s not emotionally comfortable nor especially pleasant information, all Christians need to prepare themselves to endure the straightforward tribulation that the Apostle John has warned us is coming!

Imaginatively toying with numerous bible scriptures has the power to take people far afield from the bible’s authentic (often abstruse and often spiritual, but always inside of biblical context) meanings. For instance, Revelation 1:7,

Behold, He cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see Him; and they also which pierced Him; and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of Him. Even so, Amen.

Now, this scripture does NOT literally mean that the same Roman soldiers who crucified The Lord Jesus Christ are going to be standing there, watching, at the moment of Christ’s Second Coming! Even MacDonald, Darby, and Scofield wouldn’t attempt to presume as much!

(Nor to sell any such idea to their fellows!)
Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: Because many false prophets are gone out into the world.’ - I John 4:1

Now, at the very least, I hope I have intrigued you; and I further hope you, all, have a blessed Sunday!
 

Cyr

New member
. . . . I do disagree with his assertion that "THE RAPTURE DID NOT EXIST."(sic). The Rapture, by whatever description you choose to call it, is not a past event but one that will occur sometime in the future, as attested by many scriptures. The term Rapture is not used but what the Bible alludes to is essentially the same. ( "a rose by any other name.....). Don't get hung up on semantics. There can be a great carrying away of saved souls any day by Jesus and, by whatever name you want to call it, the only concern will be if you are one of those chosen! . . . .

:rolleyes: Hardly! Read it again, but this time do it in context.

(I very rarely make syntactical errors, and certainly not after my grandmother paid all of that money to send me through a Presbyterian Synod College where I majored not so much in Theology as I did in English Literature, writing, and grammar—All with straight A's. Which is what my fellow editors have always told me!) ;)
 
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Ringo

A WATCHMAN
While the Rapture of the church is the first time that God will take a large group of people from earth to heaven without experiencing death, it will not have been the first time that God takes individuals to heaven in this way. Look at the following inventory of Rapture events throughout biblical history as noted in the following list.

ENOCH—Genesis 5
ELIJAH—2 Kings 6
ISAIAH—Isaiah 6
PHILIP—Acts 8
PAUL—2 Corinthians 12
TWO WITNESSES—Revelation 11
MALE CHILD (Jesus)—Revelation 12

The primary issue during the current church age between God and all mankind is the issue of belief in the gospel of Jesus Christ. When, in God’s estimation, the world reaches the point of global rejection of Christ, then, as with Israel before her global deportation, God will recall His ambassador—the church—before the judgment of the Tribulation. Since the church is described as heavenly citizens (Philippians 3:20), it makes sense that she is Raptured before God’s war commences against “those who dwell upon the earth” (Revelation 3:10; 6:10; 8:13; 11:10; 12:12; 13:8, 14; 14:6). This is one of many purposes for the New Testament doctrine of the pre-Tribulational Rapture of the church.

I don’t think that the concept of a Rapture is such a strange event for those who have an understanding of biblical events. Regardless of what others may think, I am going to let the Bible inform me of what is possible and what the future holds. That’s why I am constantly looking for our Lord’s any-moment return. Maranatha
 

Cyr

New member
That is an interesting argument, Ringo; but it's certainly NOT in agreement with the popular understanding; now, is it.

Oh, one more thing: Yes, I am strongly inclined to agree with you that government internment of 'Anti-vaxxers' is, indeed, in America's near-future events.

"Necessity (i.e., public safety)(Ed.) is always the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves." ~ William Pitt, The Younger (Former British Parlimentarian)
 
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Ringo

A WATCHMAN
Tell us Cyr, what was Jesus referencing when He said..."Watch therefore, and pray always that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man.”

And, if the following Scripture does not mean what it says, please explain what it does mean...

"For this we say to you by the word of the Lord (John 14:1-3), that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words.” – 1st Thess. 4:15-18.

"Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed-in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.” – 1st Corinthians 15:51-54



And for all Pre- Trib deniers who love to say that no one before the 1800’s and John Nelson Darby talked about the Pretribulation Rapture of the Church, enjoy this:

“For all the saints and Elect of God are gathered, prior to the Tribulation that is to come, and are taken to the Lord lest they see the confusion that is to overwhelm the world because of our sins” Ephraem the Syrian, A.D. 373
 

Oldgrunt

Active member
That is an interesting argument, Ringo; but it's certainly NOT in agreement with the popular understanding; now, is it.

Oh, one more thing: Yes, I am strongly inclined to agree with you that government internment of 'Anti-vaxxers' is, indeed, in America's near-future events.

"Necessity (i.e., public safety)(Ed.) is always the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves." ~ William Pitt, The Younger (Former British Parlimentarian)
Cyr: I am glad you have joined the forum and hope that we might have more to enter. I sincerely believe that our time is short in whatever particular belief we may have. Unfortunately, each belief system has its adherents which hold to their dogma without considering that others may also be correct in their interpretations of Scripture.

I am not very familiar with the Presbyterian religion but do disagree with some of its tenets. From what I have read, Presbyterians do not believe in redemption but do believe in predestination, with all matters pre-decided, and nothing can be altered. That belief would seem to deny that Jesus Christ died to redeem us from sin which, if so, has left us totally without any hope for an after-life.

So, regardless of whatever religion one espouses, we believe Jesus is the answer to our salvation and, without regard to any denominational sign over the door. With that in mind, my personal opinion is that the Bible is the only plan for our salvation and with some very simple tenets.

Listen to God's Word. "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved." Romans 10:9.

"For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." Romans 10:13.

"I am the resurrecction and the life; he that believeth in me though he were dead, yet shall he live; And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believeth thou this?" John 11:25.


I would think that if we are all in agreement with these tenets, our salvation is assured. Anything added to this by religions is rather superflous and can be attributed to inerrancy of human thought.
 
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Cyr

New member
Tell us Cyr, what was Jesus referencing when He said..."Watch therefore, and pray always that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man.”

And, if the following Scripture does not mean what it says, please explain what it does mean...

"For this we say to you by the word of the Lord (John 14:1-3), that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words.” – 1st Thess. 4:15-18.

"Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed-in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.” – 1st Corinthians 15:51-54



And for all Pre- Trib deniers who love to say that no one before the 1800’s and John Nelson Darby talked about the Pretribulation Rapture of the Church, enjoy this:

“For all the saints and Elect of God are gathered, prior to the Tribulation that is to come, and are taken to the Lord lest they see the confusion that is to overwhelm the world because of our sins” Ephraem the Syrian, A.D. 373
So you want to know what I think do you, Ringo. OK, I think you're being way too literal, and both your mental perception and spiritual maturity have a long way to go.

I am not insulting you; I am only saying (admittedly with candor) what I think; but, then again, you did ask. I'd also say that, according to my own religious comprehension, there is more than one form and/or event of death; and an expression like 'caught up in the air' could just as easily be interpreted as becoming mentally and emotionally aware, as it could to the physical act, itself.

(Who gave you the only right answers; and, especially, in view of so much well informed disagreement?)

As for escaping the coming tribulation? Why do you assume that you need to go 'sailing off through the air' in order to escape? I hope to escape as well, but I expect my feet to remain on the ground when I do. ;)
 

Oldgrunt

Active member
I think maybe we are becoming more adversarial than supportive of each other which isn't a good thing. The primary goal of each of us is the salvation of our souls, especially now, when we are facing the seeming fulfillment of Scripture in our daily lives. I was an active member of my church until I saw conflict with it and the Bible. I then became only a nominal member and rely solely on the Bible which has made more sense to me sans denominational doctrines which have been introduced by the opinions of a lot of laymen and clergy. Consequently, I am working with a lot of fear and trembling for my salvation and hope to not cause any confusion to others.

" Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling." Phil 2:12.
 
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Ringo

A WATCHMAN
Only God knows for sure, but this is very interesting.​





ulta_300x250.jpg
 

Ringo

A WATCHMAN
So you want to know what I think do you, Ringo. OK, I think you're being way too literal, and both your mental perception and spiritual maturity have a long way to go.

I am not insulting you; I am only saying (admittedly with candor) what I think; but, then again, you did ask. I'd also say that, according to my own religious comprehension, there is more than one form and/or event of death; and an expression like 'caught up in the air' could just as easily be interpreted as becoming mentally and emotionally aware, as it could to the physical act, itself.

(Who gave you the only right answers; and, especially, in view of so much well informed disagreement?)

As for escaping the coming tribulation? Why do you assume that you need to go 'sailing off through the air' in order to escape? I hope to escape as well, but I expect my feet to remain on the ground when I do. ;)
Who gave me the only right answers; and, especially, in view of so much well informed disagreement? First, God gave me the only right answers, in His written word, in SCRIPTURE. Second, in view of so much well informed disagreement the sum total of all the varying shades of heresy and apostasy we could talk about exceeds the scope of this particular brief, there are five primary categories of Christians I will address.

Group 1: Pre-Wrath- Post Tribulation believers. Many of the more rural and/or isolated churches have come to embrace a bunker-mentality believing they can somehow ride out the coming hell-on-earth with their canned beans and shotguns. They are witnessing the rapid decay of our world and have been falsely led to believe they will have to ‘endure to the end’ (or halfway) in order to receive their rapture.

Group 2: Kingdom Now believers. Many within the more heterodox-charismatic circles (i.e., health and wealth, new apostolic reformation, and prosperity gospel groups) believe America is on the brink of revival. They believe it is their job to set the conditions for Christ to return. While these groups vary on a lot of things, they all seem to be drinking the same purple, post-millennial Kool-Aid.

Group 3: Amillennial/Preterist believers. The majority of modern denominations have begun the lemming-like, suicidal march over the cliff of theological orthodoxy in their transition away from traditional Christianity. These denominations generally tend to lean left (politically), and would never utter the words prophecy or eschatology within the confines of their dwindling congregations unless it was to slander it. They generally tend to abhor Bible prophecy (and those who believe it).

Group 4: Luke-Warm believers. These tend to be generously intermingled with Group 3. These are the believers who, for the most part, ride the middle-ground of the Christian life. They like going to church, and even better, being seen going to church, but don’t want people thinking they are “too religious.” They know just enough of the Bible to be dangerous, but not enough to contend for the faith when it matters. If there were an eschatological group we could put them in, it would be the “it will all work out in the end” camp.

The fifth category is the faithful remnant who are eagerly watching and awaiting His return. We may not agree on every specific point, but if we believe Christ has to return for the church before the Tribulation (Daniel's 70th Week) begins, then we are holding to the only, biblical, explanation for how the end begins. While our blessed hope is not rooted in the sensational headlines or in the rapid decline we see dismantling our world, but in the very promise of Jesus, who said, when these things begin to happen, look up, lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near (Luke 21:27).

Christianity is, by its very nature, apocalyptic. Just as there was a definite beginning, there will be a definite end to life as we know it. Furthermore, we expect the end to come because God's word (Scripture) spends nearly 30% of its literary real-estate telling us it will come. Those believers who either deny or pervert this truth will suffer the consequences (Rev. 3:3). We are told not just to watch, but to eagerly watch and wait for His return (RAPTURE).
 

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