Could/should a CCW help a Police Officer?


I'm sure i'm going to get flamed for this but in this one rare instance one of those damn awful CCW badges might actually be somewhat useful....
Yes, of course. Agreed. Because a criminal would NEVER obtain one.
 

Yes, of course. Agreed. Because a criminal would NEVER obtain one.

I knew there would be some sarcastic comment about that. Yea, because LEO's have the vision to read exactly what it says from a distance under pressure & stress, and not just see a badge and continue on with their scan.

Take that!
holy-pow-batman.jpg
 
At least in Kansas a private citizen is required by law to assist a LEO who asks for that help and the citizen has the full and same legal protection if they do what the officer says.

2-2407. Assisting law enforcement officer. (1) A law enforcement officer making an arrest may command the assistance of any person who may be in the vicinity.
Umm, methinks something is amiss.

2-2407
Chapter 2.--AGRICULTURE
Article 24.--PEST CONTROL


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Yes, of course. Agreed. Because a criminal would NEVER obtain one.


Never say "never". I've seen a lot of antics by criminals in my day. If criminals would go so far as to obtain clothing identifying them as LEO, I wouldn't put it past them to obtain items like the badge in question.

I say the badge is a VERY BAD idea. In some jurisdictions it's illegal, and simply having one is a criminal act.



gf
 
Never say "never". I've seen a lot of antics by criminals in my day. If criminals would go so far as to obtain clothing identifying them as LEO, I wouldn't put it past them to obtain items like the badge in question.

I say the badge is a VERY BAD idea. In some jurisdictions it's illegal, and simply having one is a criminal act.



gf

I don't think you saw his sarcasm on light..? lol
 
For one of the more unusual incidents in which a private citizen saves and/or assists in saving the life of an LEO, read the odd, sad tale of David Zaback.

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A would-be robber who was shot in a battle with a King County police officer and a clerk at a Renton Highlands gun shop died last night at a Seattle hospital, police said.

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King County police yesterday identified the officer who fired on the would-be robber of a Renton Highlands gun store as Tim Lally, a patrol officer with the Maple Valley precinct and an 18-year veteran of the force.

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King County Executive Tim Hill has ordered an inquest in the death of a man killed in a shooting in a Renton gun store Feb. 3.

Don't anyone get their britches all in a knot. A coroner's inquest is pretty standard fare.

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An inquest jury deliberated only 35 minutes yesterday before finding that a King County police officer had reason to believe he was in danger when he shot a Renton man during a holdup in February.

The Renton District Court jury also ruled 5-1 that Officer Timothy Lally did not fire the shot that killed David Zaback, 33. Both Lally and a store clerk fired at Zaback.


The story even shows up on Snopes.

snopes.com: Gun Shop Robber
 
For one of the more unusual incidents in which a private citizen saves and/or assists in saving the life of an LEO, read the odd, sad tale of David Zaback.

"The inquest will aid in deciding weather or not to file charges?"

I hope that is standard procedure, from the information given in all of these articles it appears as though it was a good shoot.
 
"The inquest will aid in deciding weather or not to file charges?"

I hope that is standard procedure, from the information given in all of these articles it appears as though it was a good shoot.


They featured the incident on the television show "A 1000 Ways To die". Towards the end of the segment, they showed actual video surveillance of the incident.

Glad to hear that he had mental illness, because I'd hate to think that your average gun owner would even dream of armed robbery much less a gun shop full of people. :eek:



gf
 
Wow! Tough one to grab hold of. Lots of variables to consider about the officers reaction. Has the shooting begun? Will you be a new distraction for the officer? Where are other civilians and traffic located? If the conflict escalates into gunfire, I would probably try and assist. My lack of expertise- Not a great shot- would preclude my just shooting away, unless the officer is hit or unable to return fire. I would certainly like to hear from active and past police personnel. Their response could greatly help in resolving this issue.
the pro
 
Referring back to the "Rules of a Gunfight":

"When in a gunfight, bring a friend with a gun. Bring ALL your friends with their guns."

It won't be much of a distration because it will be pretty obvious who you are shooting at. Communicating first is a good idea, but if the officer is wounded or pinned down I won't wait for permission first.
 
I'm rural, seldom visit "civilization," so I know most people hereabouts. For me, if the guy is a good guy I like, I'll help him regardless of whether he's a cop. If he's a sick psycho, I'll stand back and laugh, regardless of whether he's a cop. The uniform does not make him good or bad, any more than my work clothes make me good or bad.

If it ever happened that I was shopping in "civilization," and I was set upon by goblins and it ended with me standing over a goblin in a pool of blood while holding a hot .45 in my hand (I said "civilization," so S-S-S is not an option), I'd call 911, then make VERY sure I was holding up my left hand wallet with CCW (driver's license in right hand wallet) so responding Officers could see it. And the compartment where my shiny gold Washington Arms Collectors Life Member badge would have "accidentally" come open and uncovered the badge. I'd NEVER pretend to be an Officer, but I'm damned if I'll risk being shot by some trigger happy rookie. We have some winners and some REAL losers in these parts, the worst of which are National Park Rangers and sometimes small town cops.

In the 21st century Police States of America, "helping" Police can get you into a lot of trouble. Remember, Prosecutors always want to punish someone, it's often secondary whether they punish the right someone.
 
Hey guys, I'm a member of another forum and this is a very hot topic lol.

I'm going to post the exact question posted on the other forum and see what the responses here are like..

As a officer, and now retired to private citizen i have no legal obligation to take action, once again i don't all the state laws across the country but i don't think a civilian has any legal obligation to lay their life on the line to fight crime.

Each person has to make their own call, once again TEXT scenarios are great and loads of fun for the sake of discussion. I enjoy them because we can make decisions without the consequences of final results.

But i'll end with this statement, when and if you decide to take a action with deadly force, remember you own that BULLET... and if you shoot we the best intensions and end up hitting, killing a innocent bystander by way of penetration, ricochet, or being off target, THE LAWSUITS WILL BEGIN... and there's no better motivator than CASH to file a lawsuit. The Police are Bonded by their department...WHOSE BONDING YOU.

There's nothing more important than you and your family/children, but as a adult with a CCW you'll have to make up own mind at any given moment. Good Luck
 
As a officer, and now retired to private citizen i have no legal obligation to take action, once again i don't all the state laws across the country but i don't think a civilian has any legal obligation to lay their life on the line to fight crime.

Each person has to make their own call, once again TEXT scenarios are great and loads of fun for the sake of discussion. I enjoy them because we can make decisions without the consequences of final results.

But i'll end with this statement, when and if you decide to take a action with deadly force, remember you own that BULLET... and if you shoot we the best intensions and end up hitting, killing a innocent bystander by way of penetration, ricochet, or being off target, THE LAWSUITS WILL BEGIN... and there's no better motivator than CASH to file a lawsuit. The Police are Bonded by their department...WHOSE BONDING YOU.

There's nothing more important than you and your family/children, but as a adult with a CCW you'll have to make up own mind at any given moment. Good Luck

Excellent post.
 
Yeah it is. Damn, you just can't do the right thing anymore without worrying about a frickin' lawsuit. Some world we live in.


Your right, you can do everything right... and still get sued. We live in a world run by lawyers who've now created a litigation society. I love talking about deadly force scenarios, shootings, and anytime someone may or may not take an action against a aggressor as a CCW person.

I know my actions and approach to situations have change since being retired and becoming a private citizen. Anything i do with my weapon... is on me, and that changes everything. I realize now my weapon's best shot... my be the one NOT TAKEN.

On the other hand... if i have no means of escape and i'm in IMMEDIATE fear for my life, I WILL SHOOT.

When you do go to court its not about what really happened... its not about the truth... ITS ABOUT ONLY WHAT YOU CAN PROVE.
 
Very good hot topic and commentors!

If I were in a bank parking lot and I would call 911, tell 911 for more backup polices cover the police officer.
 
you own that BULLET... and if you shoot we the best intensions and end up hitting, killing a innocent bystander by way of penetration, ricochet, or being off target, THE LAWSUITS WILL BEGIN...

I think gunsite's observation is very apt. If a cop shoots it out with a felon and takes out an innocent bystander (and by actual body count, police kill ten times as many innocent bystanders each year as private citizens, perhaps because police often arrive after the action begins), the felon will be charged for the death of the bystander the cop hit.

One thing you can be sure of: If YOU screw up, that Police Dept. is NOT going to come to your aid. They will throw you to the wolves. Yeah, I recall the NRA writeup back in perhaps the early 1970's, when citizen they referred to only as the "deer hunter" took out a badguy at a rest area and saved a Texas Dept. of Public Safety trooper. He got an award, an engraved S&W from DPS, etc. But even then, one Prosecutor wanted to go after him for shooting the perp -- until he was informed there was NO Officer in the entire state who would arrest the man...

This is 2010. The worst crime you can commit is doing the job the Police believe only they should do. Remember when "Sheriff Joe" Arpaio tried the throw the book at the Reservist who made a citizen's arrest of the Suburban full of illegals who tried to assault him at a rest area? Rape, robbery, murder may be bad, but Doing the Job (cops believe) Only Police Should Do will put you afoul of "Chief Officer's Ego" and it is the Very Worst and most vigorously prosecuted crime of all.

Nope, I'm not even revealing I have a gun, unless I know that cop, like him, and consider him a friend for whom I'm willing to put my life on the line -- and that has nothing to do with any uniform he may or may not be wearing.
 
Shooting under-fire is a world away from a day at the range.

In my opinion there isn't a right or wrong response to this. The actual situation would dictate my actions once the officer approved my actions by acknowledging my presence. I would first be his over-watch speaking with 911 giving valuable scene information to the approaching officers.
 
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