Confrontation scenario

C

concrete guy

New member
I have just been thinking about this for a few weeks and figured I would ask opinions.

Scenario:

2 a.m. walking back from McDonalds to your campsite. You are approached by three young men and one man has a visible club in his hand. Their are racial comments made by all three of the perps towards you so you begin to realize that money is not really what they are after. Your negotiations with them begin to fail and they take up positions preventing for a clean retreat (no castle doctrine enforced). The one man with a weapon starts his approach at you and you are at condition red. Since you have shown your hand by pulling your weapon and do not know if the other two perps have concealed weapons, are you justified in double tapping all three of them to defend your life? Do you hesitate on the other two and take the risk that they will get the jump on you with a concealed gun?
 
concrete guy said:
I have just been thinking about this for a few weeks and figured I would ask opinions.

Scenario:

2 a.m. walking back from McDonalds to your campsite. You are approached by three young men and one man has a visible club in his hand. Their are racial comments made by all three of the perps towards you so you begin to realize that money is not really what they are after. Your negotiations with them begin to fail and they take up positions preventing for a clean retreat (no castle doctrine enforced). The one man with a weapon starts his approach at you and you are at condition red. Since you have shown your hand by pulling your weapon and do not know if the other two perps have concealed weapons, are you justified in double tapping all three of them to defend your life? Do you hesitate on the other two and take the risk that they will get the jump on you with a concealed gun?
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All three are acting together and have cut off any chance of retreat. At least one is armed with the other two aware of that fact, therefore you have to assume they are all armed. They have verbaly threatened so they can be considered hostile and you are in fear of your life. Your weapon is visible (I would not have done that. Gives the other two time to draw if they ARE armed) yet they continue. All doubt is removed, all legal requirements have been met. Double tap, then double tap again, reload and if one so much as twitches, double tap again.
 
I guess I should have stated in this scenario that when the weapon was pulled, it was imediately discharged on the perp approaching with a weapon.
 
concrete guy said:
I guess I should have stated in this scenario that when the weapon was pulled, it was imediately discharged on the perp approaching with a weapon.
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as stated above...double tap as many times as it takes to stop the threat. After you put him down, if his other two buddies persued or drew a weapon, they too are threats and should be delt with accordingly.
 
I guess my question in the scenario is do you double tap all three as fast as you can. No hesitation. All three are part of the threat even though only one has shown a weapon.
 
Its quite likely the other two will be well on there way away from the scene after shots fired.
 
Even if you're in the right in protecting yourself by shooting the 3 thugs, you will be in world of legal trouble if you get an over-zealous ADA.

But I digress, the situation you described shows a disparity of force; three against one. And you would be justified in shooting the thugs. You just can't shoot them once the threat is gone; after the first one is shot, and the other two turn tail and run, you can't shoot those two.

And neither of the three needs to show any weapon, it just has to be demonstrated that any reasonable man would believe that the three said thugs were intent on doing you harm.

That is where the legal system comes in, and could cost you quite a bit to be able to maintain your innocence, and prove that you weren't the aggressor.
 
Bob Loblaw said:
Remember Bernard Goetz - aka - The Subway Vigilante.

He was found not guilty on most of his criminal charges (after years and years of litigation), but then was sued in civil court and now owes $43 million to one of his attackers.
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Thats typical. Only in the United States could something like that happen.:no:
 
Legal schmegal legal schmegal. If you are in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and you believe it right to your core common sense and you are CC, you use it. If you are questioning your thoughts in such a clear kind of dangerous confrontation you probably should not be CC. If there is a benefit to perusing these forums and threads, you begin to catalog a series of very plausible "what ifs" and come up with a series of potential defensive measures. This example is, IMO, clear cut--leaving aside Bernie Goetz, three guys threatening, one with a bat and obvious intent with words, no where to go and it is just you alone (if others anywhere in vicinity you reply and yell as loud as you can that you do not want any trouble--it is called witnesses)--you do not worry about legal bills, you worry about your life. PS: Was it a Big Mac?
 
I would not have let them get close enough to surround me.

I guessing "No escape route" means they surrounded you.

As soon as your radar went off you should have taken action.( Drawn your weapon, ran or what ever was necessary.)
 
Well, being old, I wouldn't have been at a fast food joint at 0200 in the first place. I've found it much easier to avoid the possibility of a confrontation, rather than to have to shoot your way out of a poor decision.
 
Hey Jay: Could not agree with you more. Situational awareness is critical and, what I like to call the Plaxico Burris effect should be in your mind. If you think you need a firearm or have to use a firearm there is an almost 100% chance you should never have gone there or been there in the first place. Situational awareness before you go and even during your being there should have been the primary thought and not the Big Mac at 2AM--there would have been no reason to create this thread.
 
Edsworld said:
Just stay home. If you go somewhere you could get into a confrontation.

:sarcastic:
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But of course....... lets go down to the fast food joint at 0200, ON FOOT, just to see what's shakin'. Or if there's no confrontations there, we could cruise the gang neighborhood and see how folks are doing over there.

... ALSO SARCASTIC :angry:

.... if you walk around ass deep in water, yer real likely to get wet. Common sense doesn't always have to be on vacation.

Could the possibility exist that it would be more likely to find a confrontation at 0200 ? I know, lets go FIND a confrontation. That seems to be the prevailing ninja mindset. Sheesh
 
Jay said:
But of course....... lets go down to the fast food joint at 0200, ON FOOT, just to see what's shakin'. Or if there's no confrontations there, we could cruise the gang neighborhood and see how folks are doing over there.

... ALSO SARCASTIC :angry:

.... if you walk around ass deep in water, yer real likely to get wet. Common sense doesn't always have to be on vacation.

Could the possibility exist that it would be more likely to find a confrontation at 0200 ? I know, lets go FIND a confrontation. That seems to be the prevailing ninja mindset. Sheesh
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Like I said if your afraid stay home.

Why should 2am be any different then any other time.

That's bullshit, "If you are out at that time of night, all your doing is looking for trouble."

Fear should not rule your life.

Bg's should not be allowed to rule the night. If you want McD's at 2am you should be able to go get it without the fear of being attacked.

Once it gets dark, is everyone suppose to go inside and lock the doors.
 
Yeah, right..... time of night makes no difference..... in New Mexico, you should be able to take your wife out for an evening stroll in the desert..... DO YOU? Likely the presence of mexican illegals would instill a bit of caution..... but you're not afraid.... have at it. Many times, those with no fear, are complete idiots. Graveyards are full of 'em. You choose your path, I'll handle mine.
 
Jay said:
Yeah, right..... time of night makes no difference..... in New Mexico, you should be able to take your wife out for an evening stroll in the desert..... DO YOU? Likely the presence of mexican illegals would instill a bit of caution..... but you're not afraid.... have at it. Many times, those with no fear, are complete idiots. Graveyards are full of 'em. You choose your path, I'll handle mine.
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I get it now! Your a bigot! If you live somewhere that was only white people you wouldn't have a problem going out at 2am?

"Likely the presence of mexican illegals would instill a bit of caution"

Not all illegals(not just Mexicans) are thief's,rapist, and murderers
 
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