? Concerning Traffic Stops and DUI Checkpoints

[AndeyHall]

Saw a video on here about a guy who got stopped at a DUI checkpoint on the 4th and they did some pretty incriminating things. Just curious if anyone knows where I can find the laws concerning what LEOs can and cannot do concerning these stops.

Also, a buddy of mine was stopped the other day with a bunch of friends in the car and he said that the officer asked for the ID's of everyone in the car. I know the SC CWP laws say that you have to hand over your CWP if the officer asks for ID and you are carrying (among a few other provisions), but say I had've been sitting in the back seat and he asked for my ID. Would I have to hand over my CWP? Is there any law stating under what circumstances officers can demand that you present identification?

 

[dcselby1]

In Michigan we have to inform the law if we are carrying concealed if stopped. Were I a passenger in a vehicle that was stopped, I would volunteer nothing unless specifically asked.

 

[AndeyHall]

In Michigan we have to inform the law if we are carrying concealed if stopped. Were I a passenger in a vehicle that was stopped, I would volunteer nothing unless specifically asked.

Well I know our laws pertaining to traffic stops and when I must present my permit, I just don't know when the officer is allowed to demand identification and when they are not.

 

[r1derbike]

If you refuse to give officer(s) your ID, if asked, carrying or not, even if a passenger with no CHCL, in a car, you may be charged with obstruction or other equally preposterous offenses, to say nothing of getting yanked out of the vehicle and frisked. If you have no ID, the officer will ask your name, and run that. I suppose it would be up to you to give a correct name or not, but the other occupants in the vehicle will be asked if that is your real name. A stop such as this could take a while and everyone's lives made miserable for quite some time.

Welcome to police state 101. YMMV, in other states. In AR, best to be cooperative with State Police. I had an ASP bud years ago who jokingly said it was time to go harass the populace when it was time for his shift.

 

[John Canuck]

If you are carrying, and you are asked by a LEO for ID, 23-31-215(K) makes no exception for the requirement to produce your CWP. There is no exception if you are in the back seat of a car, on the street or at the mall. The only exception is if you are on your property, where no permit is required.

If you aren't carrying, you aren't required to have any ID at all unless you are operating the motor vehicle.

 

[AndeyHall]

Gotcha. Whatever state the guy was in during the video I saw, they obviously didn't have to produce ID at a DUI hecklepoint. Apparently their hecklepoint laws are different than their traffic stop laws.

So lets say I wasn't carrying, and my gun was in the glove box (since SC doesn't require you to notify if the gun isn't on your person), and I am stopped at a DUI hecklepoint do you have to produce ID? I would think so since you are operating a vehicle, but wasn't sure since it's not a traffic stop and you aren't being pulled over for violating a law. And also what about that same scenario but I'm a passenger? Do I have to produce ID if I'm not carrying?

 

[John Canuck]

If you are the driver stopped by the police and NOT suspected of committing any crime (ie. a checkpoint that stops every car) you do not have to provide your ID. That doesn't mean the man won't demand it, nor does it mean you might not take a ride for not providing it.

The passenger is not required to have any ID at all and isn't required to do anything. There is no "stop and ID" law that I can find in SC. Some states have laws requiring one to provide identifying information upon request. Note that doesn't mean one has to carry an ID card, only that one must provide the identifying information.

Edit to add: It should go without saying, but here is my disclaimer: None of what I say should be considered legal advice. The decision to or not to provide ID, submit to roadside sobriety tests, consent to a search, or answer an questions is a decision between the individual and their attorney.

 

[AndeyHall]

If you are the driver stopped by the police and NOT suspected of committing any crime (ie. a checkpoint that stops every car) you do not have to provide your ID. That doesn't mean the man won't demand it, nor does it mean you might not take a ride for not providing it.

The passenger is not required to have any ID at all and isn't required to do anything. There is no "stop and ID" law that I can find in SC. Some states have laws requiring one to provide identifying information upon request. Note that doesn't mean one has to carry an ID card, only that one must provide the identifying information.

Thanks! I knew you'd chime in at some point haha!

 

[AndeyHall]

If you are the driver stopped by the police and NOT suspected of committing any crime (ie. a checkpoint that stops every car) you do not have to provide your ID. That doesn't mean the man won't demand it, nor does it mean you might not take a ride for not providing it.

The passenger is not required to have any ID at all and isn't required to do anything. There is no "stop and ID" law that I can find in SC. Some states have laws requiring one to provide identifying information upon request. Note that doesn't mean one has to carry an ID card, only that one must provide the identifying information.

Here's another question for you John...

I have been pulled over several times since I have had my CWP (bear in mind I got my CWP exactly 90 days after turning 21 and I'm now almost 24). I rarely ever carry on my person when driving unless I am driving other people's vehicles. The reason is because A) it is easier to get to, if I need it, in the center console than off my side with a seatbelt on and B) I do not have to notify if it is not on my person. And the reason I do not want to have to notify is because I can think of 4 separate occasions off hand where I was pulled over, all 4 times in Anderson County, once by sheriff, 2 by highway patrol, and once by city, and all 4 times after giving the officer my CWP I was asked to get out of the truck/car. Each time I was patted down and the officer removed my gun from my person and seized it during the duration of the traffic stop. Now I understand that traffic stops are considered "Terry stops", and the officer does have the right to ask me out of the vehicle and search for "contraband" by a pat down IN MOST STATES, however I have read that some states have varying laws. Does South Carolina have any law that prevents this from happening? Because I always hear people tell these warm and fuzzy stories about how they handed the officer their CWP and it "immediately put the officer at ease" because he realized that they were one of the good guys. I then tell them my stories of the exact opposite experience and they seem to think that what the officer is doing should be illegal and considered harassment because lawfully carrying a gun should not be a legitimate reason for detainment and taking my gun. What do you think?

 

[John Canuck]

What were you pulled over for? Did you inform them that you do not consent to any search or seizure of your person or property? This, and other reasons, is why any form of notification law is bad.

What I think is that you should begin recording your interactions with the police. As a minimum, a voice recorder on your person to capture the event. Some would call him paranoid, but an acquaintance of mine runs video and audio at all times when in his car, and audio at all times when not in the car.

 

[kelcarry]

Due diligence and responsibility and knowing the law are necessary if you are going to be CC. This discussion is helpful in doing just that. My comment is rather simple. IF YOU OBEY ALL THE RULES OF THE ROAD AND ACT LIKE THE LITTLE LADY FROM PASADENA AND LEAVE YOUR TESTOSTERONE HOME AND BITE YOUR TONGUE EVERYTIME A "TRAFFIC SITUATION" ARISES, there is very little reason to even have this discussion if it pertains to an LEO stop because you violated a traffic law. I am not a 24/7 and do not carry most of the time, but I can tell you that I am a "me first" driver who becomes that real ***** cat as I bite hard on my tongue and will continue to do so---try it, learn to live with it--it is the responsible thing to do when you are CC.

 

[AndeyHall]

What were you pulled over for? Did you inform them that you do not consent to any search or seizure of your person or property? This, and other reasons, is why any form of notification law is bad.

What I think is that you should begin recording your interactions with the police. As a minimum, a voice recorder on your person to capture the event. Some would call him paranoid, but an acquaintance of mine runs video and audio at all times when in his car, and audio at all times when not in the car.

Well the sheriff was just a ****, claiming that cut him off when I know for a fact that I did not even change lanes for over 4 miles, long before he ever entered the road in my vicinity. I think something about me or my vehicle just peeved him. But the 2 highway patrol incidents were speeding, but not by any extraordinary amount. Maybe 64 in a 55 or something like that (and that's before their "well I'm gonna cut it down to..." reduction). The city cop was because my tag had expired by 6 days while I was out of town and he pulled me over 2 miles after having just left the courthouse where I had just picked up my new registration and sticker, all of which was explained to him. Now I will add that in all these cases I did not receive a ticket, only a warning. In fact, I have only received 2 tickets in my life, both of which I got long before I started carrying.

But no I did not tell the officer that I refused to be searched because that is my question, what exactly does the officer have the legal right to do when just pulling me over for a minor traffic violation?

 

[AndeyHall]

Due diligence and responsibility and knowing the law are necessary if you are going to be CC. This discussion is helpful in doing just that. My comment is rather simple. IF YOU OBEY ALL THE RULES OF THE ROAD AND ACT LIKE THE LITTLE LADY FROM PASADENA AND LEAVE YOUR TESTOSTERONE HOME AND BITE YOUR TONGUE EVERYTIME A "TRAFFIC SITUATION" ARISES, there is very little reason to even have this discussion if it pertains to an LEO stop because you violated a traffic law. I am not a 24/7 and do not carry most of the time, but I can tell you that I am a "me first" driver who becomes that real ***** cat as I bite hard on my tongue and will continue to do so---try it, learn to live with it--it is the responsible thing to do when you are CC.

I'm not a "obey the law and you won't run into this situation" type of person. The reason I'm asking the question is for WHEN I encounter an LEO in a traffic stop, because let's face it, even the best drivers get pulled over for mistakes. So I want to make sure that officer is not overstepping his bounds.

 

[John Canuck]

Well the sheriff was just a ****, claiming that cut him off when I know for a fact that I did not even change lanes for over 4 miles, long before he ever entered the road in my vicinity. I think something about me or my vehicle just peeved him. But the 2 highway patrol incidents were speeding, but not by any extraordinary amount. Maybe 64 in a 55 or something like that (and that's before their "well I'm gonna cut it down to..." reduction). The city cop was because my tag had expired by 6 days while I was out of town and he pulled me over 2 miles after having just left the courthouse where I had just picked up my new registration and sticker, all of which was explained to him. Now I will add that in all these cases I did not receive a ticket, only a warning. In fact, I have only received 2 tickets in my life, both of which I got long before I started carrying.

But no I did not tell the officer that I refused to be searched because that is my question, what exactly does the officer have the legal right to do when just pulling me over for a minor traffic violation?

Well, take this for what its worth. Im not a lawyer, but i did sleep at a Holiday Inn Express the other night.

If he has pulled you for an actual violation you already know what a terry stop involves. Some boil it down to a couple simple rules. Never consent to any search, ever, and never talk with the police (other than a few phrases repeated as often as required). If he's going to do something to you, you should make him do it without consent and without any input from you. The running audio/video may help you, it may not. If he's right, he's right. If he's wrong, a lawyer handles it. The problem is the system is on his side. Your lawyer isn't free, he has immunity. YMMV. It gets better as you get older. They don't hassle you if you have a car seat in the back.