Concealed weapons class

[Ronnieloo]

I have to admit that I went to this class today with a chip on my shoulder. I do not need a permit to carry a gun anymore than I need a permit to go to church. I left with the same feelings for my constitutional rights but also with a very different feeling of conscientiousness. I passed my exam with a 96% and can now get my permit to carry a concealed weapon. And I will. The room was filled. I would say there were 50 people there and his next class is filled to the max as well...as will be the next and the next. It was a very profound experience as the impact this instructor has and places upon you with the responsibility you are ACCEPTING by becoming someone who can and now should be by exercising their 2nd amendment right must do so with the full realization that every bullet has a lawyer's name on it and that should you find yourself in a position where you have to use that bullet that your life will never ever ever be the same again for the rest of your time on this planet and that carrying a gun is not for everyone. This is a gravely serious decision. I flashed back to the day I was first responder to an accident where a man had flipped out of the back of a pick up truck going down the highway and had landed on his head and then rolled off to the side of the road. I saw the accident take place. When I approached the scene, I knew by the training that I'd had as an EMT that there was no hope this man could have survived nor was there any hope of resuscitation. Another man had pulled over the same time I did. I told him what to say to the dispatcher as he called 911 on his cell phone. There is nothing that can prepare anyone for that moment in time when they see someone's life force leaving the human body. What was once someone's child, someone who had their own struggles as a little boy, a teenager, a young man, etc is now a body laying in a pool of blood. There are no more tomorrows. No rest of TODAY. Their personal clock has stopped. As your own will one day. There is no greater sense of your own mortality. I saw the man across from me struggling not to pass out. He was not prepared for what he saw.
I remember hearing a man tell about what it was like when he shot his first "enemy" in Viet Nam. As his "enemy" charged him with the full intent to kill him, he had no choice but to pull that trigger. He said he will never forget the look on that other man's face as he realized he was dying. And then to see the light go out of his eyes as his body dropped and hit the ground. He had to kill multiple others during that senseless, gruesome war that was nothing more than a depopulation of people. Mass murder by politicians using other people. Death by force. Death to keep himself alive. Death to keep his troopers alive. But it was that first kill that stayed with him.
Did you know there was a man at the recent Arizona shooting that had his (legal) gun on him? Had he not had the proper training, he may have caused more death of the innocent because by the time he got there someone else had the murder's gun in their hands. Had he not been able to quickly mentally access the situation he may have shot someone who was holding the killer's gun. People think they are going to know what to do. They've seen too many TV shows and movies. Life is not a video game. It's the real deal and you had better know what to do because the wrong move will haunt you the rest of your life and even if you do everything right it still will because you'll always question yourself....could I have done better?
With deepest sincerity I pray I will never be in a position to have to use my weapon. But if I do I need to know to myself that I am prepared to do so. I will be going to the gun range as much as I can. I will take as many classes as I can afford in order to become as good as possible with my weapon. The slightest mistake on my part could not only cost me my life but that of lives around me plus could also put my weapon into the wrong hands.
It was a good class with a superior instructor. I treasure my 2nd Amendment as we all should. But we all need to understand the RESPONSIBILITY that comes with it.

 

[CalicoJack10]

I would have to say that many veterans (including myself) do not like the idea of people sharing the stories of what they went through, even in a vague sense. It is presumptuous, and offensive in many cases. That being said, it seems that your post has far less to do with the title that it was listed with than you think.

The psychological effects of having to defend yourself are very different than the effects of watching someone die. The comparing of the effects of a veteran fighting in Viet-Nam to the effects of an EMT helping with someone that were just in an accident couldn't be more opposite. I have lived through both (Though not in Viet-Nam). You are correct that both take an emotional toll on a person, but the overall effects are very very different.

The idea that every bullet has an attorney's name on it is 100% correct. Because no matter how well you defend yourself or others, there will always be someone looking to gain from it. People tend to think that money can solve emotional problems.

All that being said, best of luck with your CCW and we can only hope that you will never have to use it.

 

[asaling]

+1 - Couldn't agree with you more CalicoJack.

 

[cardinalfan]

Being a CCW holder is a responsiblity. It's not 'hey, I can carry a gun now, I won't have any problems'. Why did I get one? To protect my family and myself and I hope to God I NEVER have to use it.

 

[FN1910]

You say you went to the class with a chip on your shoulder because of your feelings about being required to before you can carry. I understand your feelings about this and agee that we should not be required to. However at the same time I think that everyone should attend some kind of training before carrying. Notice I said should and not be required. How the training is acquired I don't really care but it should be obtained. And to add to that I really don't care about the actual gun training on the range as long as you basically know which end of the gun the bullet comes out of and realize the damage it can do. I do think that everyone should know the basic laws conderning guns and the carrying of them along with the responsibility that goes along with it. I would like for it to be a required course in high school for all students to have to take. There are too many people running around with guns that have gotten all of their knowlege about gus from TV or movies and have no real idea of what they are doing or what their responsibility is. There are a lot of people that can put 10 out of 10 rounds in the center of a target that I would not feel comfortable walking around with them on the street or range. There is a lot more to carrying a gun than just knowing how to fire it.

 

[Yarddawg]

You say you went to the class with a chip on your shoulder because of your feelings about being required to before you can carry. I understand your feelings about this and agee that we should not be required to. However at the same time I think that everyone should attend some kind of training before carrying. Notice I said should and not be required. How the training is acquired I don't really care but it should be obtained. And to add to that I really don't care about the actual gun training on the range as long as you basically know which end of the gun the bullet comes out of and realize the damage it can do. I do think that everyone should know the basic laws conderning guns and the carrying of them along with the responsibility that goes along with it. I would like for it to be a required course in high school for all students to have to take. There are too many people running around with guns that have gotten all of their knowlege about gus from TV or movies and have no real idea of what they are doing or what their responsibility is. There are a lot of people that can put 10 out of 10 rounds in the center of a target that I would not feel comfortable walking around with them on the street or range. There is a lot more to carrying a gun than just knowing how to fire it.

+1 I could not agree with you more!

 

[Rabbitcreekok]

There is a world of misinformation out there about the legal use of Deadly Force. A lot of it is seen on this forum as well as others.

In Oklahoma, we teach the law, as it applies to the use of Deadly Force. Unfortunately, the curriculum does not include how to avoid the use of Deadly Force if at all possible. Remember those bullets with the lawyers names on them?

Another thing that is not included in the curriculum is the mindset of the armed citizen. There are folks out there that have not mentally made the decision that they would take a life in order to protect those covered in the use of Deadly Force laws. They have the idea that if they just show their gun to the bad guy, the BG will run off. They are not ready to shoot if necessary. Those folks should not be armed.

That mindset is covered in my classes. I suggest that they leave if they don't see themselves ever arriving at the ability to use deadly force if justified.

Ronnieloo, I hope that every student that attends my class leaves with the understanding you now have of the responsibility involved in being an armed citizen and is fully ready to accept that responsibility.

 

[Ronnieloo]

I expected mixed reviews to my comment on my class. No one can say for sure how they would react in that moment when you have to make that critical decision. You pray the person who is carrying a concealed weapon is a reasonable person of sound mind.

I certainly did not have any intention of offending any veterans. I cannot imagine in my worst nightmare having to go to war and have to kill. A friend of mine was a Marine and sent to Viet Nam. I asked him what he did (meaning what specific function) and his reply was "I killed people." I wanted to crawl under a rock. Turns out he was a machine gunner on a helicopter the majority of the time. He said he has no clue how many people he killed.

Being an EMT is of course nothing like being a Marine on a helicopter spraying bullets into people. But death is death. That was my point. You are still watching that life leave the human body and it is heart retching for anyone with a conscious.

The premise of my writing was to compliment the instructors who take the time to instill how serious it truly is to make the choice to carry a concealed weapon. I feel very fortunate in having had this experience and I will follow up with making myself even more educated.

And yes, I pray to Almighty God that I am never in a position where I have to make this kind of decision. But if I do, I want to be as prepared as I can possibly make myself and that will require dedication and more education.

 

[santa]

i agree with calico jack. while in both situations a person dies, there is a difference. i can not comment on how veterans feel not being one myself. however i would suggest that ronnieloo get in touch with a lawyer that will be on call if he should ever have to use his gun. and i agree that carrying a gun is a responsibility that nobody should take lightly. i have known individuals who have told me that they would shoot to wound or brandish their gun to scare because they could not kill anyone. we all know how that might end. i have been in three situations where my gun was pointed at an assailant and i was prepared to shoot to stop the threat. they all ran. i have also been in situations where i could have pulled out my gun but some sixth sense said no and im glad i did not draw. we can all come up with millions of scenarios on what we would do. this is good because it prepares us for that time when we must decide and then accept the consequences. but on the up side you can rest easier knowing that if you have to defend yourself or those you love you have the means to do so. ronnieloo to me it sounds as if you are off to a good start. good luck and welcome to this site.

 

[FN1910]

In order to hijack this thread and comment on all the talk about watching people die. When I first got out of college I started with a company that had a lot of WW II veterans as employees. One of the interesting things I found was that those that served in the Navy liked to talk a lot about their war experiences and those who served in the Army rarely if ever talked about it. One day I asked a fellow if he ever killed anyone in the war. He said, "No, but I loaded a lot of bombs on planes that did kill a lot of people". I could tell that the ones that were up close in the fighting were greatly affected by the sight of men dying and even those on the supply end were. My Father-in-law was a supply truck driver and never talked much about it at all. However he did have a nightmare one night and almost broke his wife's back in his sleep thinking she was a Germam soldier.

I think that there are few people that will not have their lives changed greatly if they ever have to use their gun to protect themselves whether it is completely justified or not. Remember that when that bullet leaves the barrel your life will probably be changed forever even if you don't need a lawyer afterwards.

 

[CalicoJack10]

In order to hijack this thread and comment on all the talk about watching people die. When I first got out of college I started with a company that had a lot of WW II veterans as employees. One of the interesting things I found was that those that served in the Navy liked to talk a lot about their war experiences and those who served in the Army rarely if ever talked about it. One day I asked a fellow if he ever killed anyone in the war. He said, "No, but I loaded a lot of bombs on planes that did kill a lot of people". I could tell that the ones that were up close in the fighting were greatly affected by the sight of men dying and even those on the supply end were. My Father-in-law was a supply truck driver and never talked much about it at all. However he did have a nightmare one night and almost broke his wife's back in his sleep thinking she was a German soldier.

Just out of curiosity, if he never talked about it, how did you know what was going on in this nightmare?

Also, since Vietnam, it has not been like WWII, the Navy has seen nearly as much ground/land combat as other branches. This is based on the extensive air, river, and spec war support to all branches. There is no real distinguishing between the branches anymore. We all do/did the same jobs. And the reason that most combat vets don't trust people in general is because of them spreading hear say stories about someone they know that did something that was completely crazy after they got home from some conflict. Whether you realize it or not, those stories are the reason that far too many Veterans are treated so poorly. Anyone who has lived through the hell of defending this country knows that even if you make it home safe, you have given your life for your country. And those that have never been there, don't realize that stories like the one you told here can cost jobs, end relationships, keep parents away from children, and create a consecutive hell for those that fight for your freedom. It is purely offensive for you to say things like this. Not every vet who has nightmares is like Rambo, headed out to the woods to take out 5000 people because he couldn't stop to get something to eat in YOUR town. You ask any veteran that was honorably discharged and they will tell you it does not matter what branch someone was in, a vet is a vet Period! And vets stand shoulder to shoulder and back to back 100% of the time.

The course of taking a human life is devastating for 99% of those that have to do it. Whether they admit it or not. The truth is that even those who have had to do so in civilian life, have a whole new appreciation for wishing that they never ever have to do it again. And until you are put in that situation, there is no amount of training or appreciation that you could ever have, or that would ever prepare you for the devastation involved in having to defend yourself and taking a life in the process. And in my opinion, it is unfair to speculate.

 

[FN1910]

Just out of curiosity, if he never talked about it, how did you know what was going on in this nightmare?

He told her what was he was dreaming when he woke up. He had his knee in her back and hands on her shoulders trying to break her back and she did have trouble with it from then on. I say he never talked about it but I should have said seldom and never in detail. The only things he ever told were some "funny" stories such as how they loved it when they got canned peaches. I meant no disrespect to anyone who served in any military rather just an observation about the difference between those that served in the Navy and Army. You are correct about Viet Nam being totally different as then it was no longer those older than me but those my same age and some of my very good friends. When Viet Nam war ended I was scheduled to be drafted in the next monthly round and was not. The stories they shared with me were different than those of WW II but still the details of actual war were seldom told.