Concealed Carry in places serving alcohol (bars and restaurants)

melloyello

New member
A friend of mine was finished eating at Pizza Hut when he noticed that someone was being served a beer, was he breaking the law?
Could he have lost his CWP if someone noticed or he had to defend himself.

Our interpretation of South Carolina Law differ wrt carry concealed in places that have onsite consumption of alcoholic beverages.
We're both CCP holders and I say we are lawfully carriers as defined by section 23-31-215 and therefore section 16-23-465 did not apply.
The law states,"penalty for unlawfully carrying pistol or firearm." However it further states, "In addition to the penalties described above, a person who violates this section while carrying a concealable weapon pursuant to Article 4, Chapter 31, Title 23, must have his concealed weapon permit revoked."

There is no exception for LEO on or off duty, retired, and other elite citizens, so if they are lawfully carrying wouldn't we be lawfully carrying?

Anyone have an insight?

Here are the Laws of interest...
A Section under Concealed Weapons Permit and a section under Crimes and Offenses

Title 23 - Law Enforcement and Public Safety
Link Removed

CHAPTER 31.
FIREARMS

ARTICLE 4.
CONCEALED WEAPON PERMITS

SECTION 23-31-215. Issuance of permits.

(M) A permit issued pursuant to this section does not authorize a permit holder to carry a concealable weapon into a:

(1) police, sheriff, or highway patrol station or any other law enforcement office or facility;
(2) detention facility, prison, or jail or any other correctional facility or office;
(3) courthouse or courtroom;
(4) polling place on election days;
(5) office of or the business meeting of the governing body of a county, public school district, municipality, or special purpose district;
(6) school or college athletic event not related to firearms;
(7) daycare facility or pre-school facility;
(8) place where the carrying of firearms is prohibited by federal law;
(9) church or other established religious sanctuary unless express permission is given by the appropriate church official or governing body; or
(10) hospital, medical clinic, doctor's office, or any other facility where medical services or procedures are performed unless expressly authorized by the employer.

A person who wilfully violates a provision of this subsection is guilty of a misdemeanor and, upon conviction, must be fined not less than one thousand dollars or imprisoned not more than one year, or both, at the discretion of the court and have his permit revoked for five years.

Nothing contained herein may be construed to alter or affect the provisions of Sections 10-11-320, 16-23-420, 16-23-430, 16-23-465, 44-23-1080, 44-52-165, 50-9-830, and 51-3-145.


Title 16 - Crimes and Offenses
Link Removed
CHAPTER 23.
OFFENSES INVOLVING WEAPONS
ARTICLE 5.
MISCELLANEOUS OFFENSES

SECTION 16-23-465. Additional penalty for unlawfully carrying pistol or firearm onto premises of business selling alcoholic liquors, beers or wines for on-premises consumption.

In addition to the penalties provided for by Sections 16-11-330 and 16-23-460 and by Article 1 of Chapter 23 of Title 16, a person convicted of carrying a pistol or firearm into a business which sells alcoholic liquor, beer, or wine for consumption on the premises is guilty of a misdemeanor and, upon conviction, must be fined not more than two thousand dollars or imprisoned not more than three years, or both.

In addition to the penalties described above, a person who violates this section while carrying a concealable weapon pursuant to Article 4, Chapter 31, Title 23, must have his concealed weapon permit revoked.
 

I think it's pretty simple, you can't legally. Every judge and lawyer will laugh at you about the LEO's exclusion ... same with the judges and lawyers that work for the state, they get a 'get out of jail card for free.' It is our 'separate and not even close to equal'. system.

Grassroots S.C. is working on the Restaurant carry bill right now. Don't expect any Help from Henry McMaster regardless of what his bid for Governor web sight says.
 
Grassroots S.C. is working on the Restaurant carry bill right now. Don't expect any Help from Henry McMaster regardless of what his bid for Governor web sight says.

We're part of Grassroots and I was told that the bill failed.

McMasters isn't getting my vote, hope there is a candidate worth electing.
 
Blume keeps us up to date so I'm assuming that melloyellow is referring to the restaurant bill that was connected to the on school property bill. I know they pulled the restaurant out of that one, but blume, if theres a new one up please let me know. I know ALOT of people that would be willing to do mail ins/emails/phone calls to support a restaurant carry bill.
 
Get this

- I was talking to one of my co-workers (Active Air Force Reservist), the Air Force required him to take SC CWP due to the nature of some of his orders transporting materials in SC. His class was held in Columbia with SLED agents. The question about bars was asked and the agent told him point blank the only places that are prohibited are defined in SECTION 23-31-215 in SC Code of Laws. This was in the last couple months, he too is waiting on his permit.

Apparently there are several interpretations of the law depending on the LEO you encounter. When I got my SC CWP, my CWP instructor was a retired LEO, SC Grassroots member and his comment too was if it wasn't prohibited in SECTION 23-31-215 then it is legal with your CWP. He was very adamant about the point (maybe because of the barge of questions).

My instructor and my interpretation match but my friend was instructed by an authorized CWP trainer and he was told conversely.
 
SNIPPED.....

SECTION 23-31-215. Issuance of permits.

SNIPPED.....

Last line of this section states:
Nothing contained herein may be construed to alter or affect the provisions of Sections 10-11-320, 16-23-420, 16-23-430, 16-23-465, 44-23-1080, 44-52-165, 50-9-830, and 51-3-145.



SECTION 16-23-465. Additional penalty for unlawfully carrying pistol or firearm onto premises of business selling alcoholic liquors, beers or wines for on-premises consumption.

In addition to the penalties provided for by Sections 16-11-330 and 16-23-460 and by Article 1 of Chapter 23 of Title 16, a person convicted of carrying a pistol or firearm into a business which sells alcoholic liquor, beer, or wine for consumption on the premises is guilty of a misdemeanor and, upon conviction, must be fined not more than two thousand dollars or imprisoned not more than three years, or both.

In addition to the penalties described above, a person who violates this section while carrying a concealable weapon pursuant to Article 4, Chapter 31, Title 23, must have his concealed weapon permit revoked.

SO I think its pretty clear. No Weapon in an establishment that serves alcohol...
 
My favorite subject. There has been argruments both ways in fact 2 years ago Grassroots stoped pushing a bill because it was decided that the "unlawfully carried firearm" did not mean CWP. Most people i know are either waiting for a test case or a new bill.

The politician who pushed the school firearm bill last year will be working on the restaurant carry this year. You need to remember that our state government rests from June to January. Hopefully it will be straightened out this year.
 
My favorite subject. There has been argruments both ways in fact 2 years ago Grassroots stoped pushing a bill because it was decided that the "unlawfully carried firearm" did not mean CWP. Most people i know are either waiting for a test case or a new bill.

The politician who pushed the school firearm bill last year will be working on the restaurant carry this year. You need to remember that our state government rests from June to January. Hopefully it will be straightened out this year.

I hope they can get the majority of sales from alcohol part pushed through but I am not holding my breath. As you pointed out the test case is the only way right now and that would make the legislature take action if it turns out favorably. We do have a few idiots as representatives and if you look they are the ones that should be taking action instead of being against itbut it looks better for them to proclaim that they are helping "their people" when they actually are just lining their own pockets.
 
Every state goes through this

Kansas... in order to get enough votes to pass concealed carry in Kansas, many legislators added places to te list that they worried about... hospital, church and bars
Bit at the first revision a few months after the became effective, that entire list was made optional. Any place that wanted to allow concealed carry could just not put up a sign. Several pastors objected to being disarmed and vulnerable. Bars and restaurants did not object, most never had posted signs when they were on a list.
Kansas still makes being under the influence a crime, just like driving. o.o8% BAC is presumptive CUI, but if you behave badly you can be charged at any BAC level.
But there are many reasons to allow carrying into a bar. For instance, if the building is posted, a plumber coming to do repair work on the refrigeration at 10 AM, before the bar open can't carry. A stranded motorist can't enter either.
In Kansas you can have a glass of wine with Christmas dinner, but you are not allowed to get drunk.
They had tried the 51% income rule to decide where you could carry, but who knows what profit margins the business has?
These flat rules are just another "I'm afraid of guns" and you'll be in gunfights over parking, football and can't be trusted.

 
Those who don't want CC need to post

Don't care if it is a church or bar, any establishment that doesn't want business from CWP holders needs to post, KEEP IT SIMPLE...

Give us back our right to defend ourselves and who we determine to patronize.

I know a few teetotalers and don't like their rights being stripped.
 
I believe the only way around the issue is SC Code of Laws, 1976 as amended, Section 16-23-20; seek a commission as an UNCOMPENSATED Governor's Constable (State Constable). Also see Section 16-23-60 Construction. One would be allowed to carry practically anywhere with the commission.

J

That is defeating the point of our right for ALL to RKBA. We've investigated becoming UNCOMPENSATED Governor's Constables but we would be part of the problem adding to ELITE citizenship.

And we are talking about the RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS...unlike what the White House interprets wrt the Second Amendment.

Link Removed
 
Blume keeps us up to date so I'm assuming that melloyellow is referring to the restaurant bill that was connected to the on school property bill. I know they pulled the restaurant out of that one, but blume, if theres a new one up please let me know. I know ALOT of people that would be willing to do mail ins/emails/phone calls to support a restaurant carry bill.

And herein lies the problem... if y'all supported GrassRoots over the past 2-3 yrs, we wouldn't have most of the problems we have now. We get little support when we send out requests for calls, e-mails, fax, etc. when we need to get something done in Columbia.
As far as restaurant carry goes, you can place the blame directly at the feet of GoSC (the state NRA group) from several yrs ago. In addition, they're trying to take credit on their website for the recent school carry bill... total BS, since GRGRSC wrote the bill, fixed it during the process, and got it thru despite their interference. Not in the original form we wrote, but we felt it more important to let it go thru as changed rather than let it die and have to start anew. We're working on a fix - and will need everybody's support when the time comes.

Go to the GRGRSC site - the recent Defender paper should be available on-line. You can read a detailed article on what it took to get the school bill passed. Should open a few eyes.

Howard
 
Grassroots

Well you got me. I'm guilty for not joining. I'll send in for my membership shortly.


Thanks
 
Last year I discovered that I had thought I had been a member for the last 3 years... seems I missed the membership renewal... So, when I sent in my money for this year, I added the last three years too.

Now that I think about it, when do I get a renewal letter this year? I think the administrative part of grass roots in S.C. needs some help.
 
ALL I know is if I'm CC into a restaurant and I have no other choice but to draw. I'd sooner be judged by 12, then toe tagged. Last weekend was at our favorite pizza joint, they have no beer signs lit up, no real advertising on the tables. As we were waiting on our order I notice a card on the table offering a type of beer. Did I immediately leave, hell no. Sat there enjoyed my dinner and left. Was I violating State Law.........ok, but again IF something was to happen and I had no way to defend myself or my wife. What would the State do? Nadda, zilch, don't know ya, don't owe ya. Sorry, the BG shot and killed you or your wife. NO redress is possible if your dead.
SO, I carry as I see fit, try to abide by all applicable laws and IF I carry truly concealed there should not be a problem. Also pray there never is one either.

"The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities." --author and philosopher Ayn Rand (1905-1982)
 
My take again is the "unlawfully carried handgun" would not relate to a CWP holder since he is lawfully carrying as per the restrictions that are even on the SLED website.

Years ago it was noticed that there were far too many "bars" in the Bible Belt so all bars in SC were required to serve some sort of food making them a restaurant.
 
In Florida with a cc permit, I understand as long as you don't sit "at the bar" it is permissable to carry in a Resturant that serves alcohol.
I have noticed in other states that carry is prohibited ANYWHERE alcohol is served.
After reading this thread I still wonder - while not being naive - if ...
Alcohol and consumption is legal, being in a public place is legal, and with a permit carrying is legal.

Can it be unconstitional to prohibit any of these combinations ?
( I mean what about pursuit of happiness ?):pleasantry:
I'm not talking drunk, but 1 drink maybe ??? Or no drink at all as far as being in a bar/Resturant
And I don't see impairment of judgement as the answer to this question.

:unsure:
 

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