Concealed carry, IMPORTANT!!!


cougaram

New member
Please pass this on to all the other retired guys and gun owners...Thanks


From a Vietnam Vet and retired Police Officer:

I had a doctors appointment at the local VA clinic yesterday and found out
something very interesting that I would like to pass along.
While going through triage before seeing the doctor, I was asked at the
end of the exam, three questions:
1. Did I feel stressed?
2. Did I feel threatened?
3. Did I feel like doing harm to someone?
The nurse then informed me, that if I had answered yes to any of the questions, I would have lost my concealed carry permit as it would have gone into my medical records and the VA would have reported it to
Homeland Security.


Looks like they are going after the vets first. Other gun people like retired law enforcement will probably be next. Then when they go after the civilians, what
argument will they have? Be forewarned and be aware.
The Obama administration has gone on record as considering veterans and gun owners potential terrorists.



Whether you are a gun owner veteran or not, YOU"VE BEEN WARNED !



If you know veterans and gun owners, please pass this on to them. Be very cautious about what you say and to whom.
 

Sorry...not buying it! CCW is state law, not federal...and state law has criteria for whether you are eligible or it can be revoked. Three questions all not cut it.

Good reason to keep fed hands out of CCW process.

Great fear-mongering tool however.
 
Whether it's true or not, I don't see why you guys dismiss it so readily. I wouldn't put it past them for a minute.

Maybe because I am a 20 year vet and because I have seen other stupid things the VA has done in the 20 years I have been retired.

Even as we speak, they keep sending me forms to fill out to join their program to 'help other vets out'.

I forget what they call it, but by joining, you agree to have random blood test's and answer random questionaire's about yourself, the way you feel from day to day, the kind of work you engage in and a whole bunch of other crap.

I have quite a bit of orthopeadic type pain, you know the typical old knees and shoulders you get from working hard your whole life and taking up other's slack. They made me sign a form to administer pain meds to me that the VA is the only place I would seek this medication. They said it was shared so if I was dispensed other meds, I would be in violation of the agreement I signed, and that that local information is available to them.

I didn't get into what would happen if I violated the agreement but it wasn't me just signing it, the Doctor and the Nurse both witnessed it.

I'm not any type of conspiracy theorist but I don't trust them to do what I may think is the right thing. I just keep playing their game to get my meds that I need to work a full time job + and go about my business.

You can bet though, if they can share my med history, they can share my mental history with the locals. I don't care what happens in my life, I will never feel stressed or feel like I wanna take someone out:):):).

KK
 
Please pass this on to all the other retired guys and gun owners...Thanks


From a Vietnam Vet and retired Police Officer:

I had a doctors appointment at the local VA clinic yesterday and found out
something very interesting that I would like to pass along.
While going through triage before seeing the doctor, I was asked at the
end of the exam, three questions:
1. Did I feel stressed?
2. Did I feel threatened?
3. Did I feel like doing harm to someone?
The nurse then informed me, that if I had answered yes to any of the questions, I would have lost my concealed carry permit as it would have gone into my medical records and the VA would have reported it to
Homeland Security.

This is a grey area. Your medical records are protected by the privacy provision of the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA).

Generally, the HIPAA Privacy Rule regulates the use and disclosure of certain information held by "covered entities", including the VA, health care clearinghouses, employer sponsored health plans, health insurers, and medical service providers that engage in certain transactions. It establishes regulations for the use and disclosure of Protected Health Information. This is interpreted rather broadly and includes any part of an individual's medical record or payment history.

Covered entities must disclose PHI when required to do so by law, such as reporting suspected child abuse to state child welfare agencies. There are many situations when the government has the right or the legal obligation to see your medical records. Many government-sponsored health programs such as those covering the military, veterans, and government employees are nonetheless covered by the Privacy Rule. Homeland security has been actively trying to change the current privacy provision of HIPAA as it currently stands. However, when personally identifiable health information is collected by the government, the federal Privacy Act also applies. The department of Health and Human Services may obtain access to your health records in connection with an investigation should you make a complaint against the VA. The Privacy Rule requires the VA notify individuals of uses of their PHI. The privacy officer at the VA can tell you if there is any legal requirement to report to homeland security. Under the law the VA must provide you with a written copy of the HIPAA privacy rules in effect for federal agencies.

Always remember to leave your handgun home when visiting the VA as you can be charged for merely having it in the car.
 
With the current administration I wouldn't put it past them to do some back door manuvering. If you want to believe this can't happen, I have some ocean beech property in Idaho I would like to sell.
 
Those questions are actually standard triage questions they ask everyone who is triaged in the ER. And HIPPA guidelines are standard as well. There are very few instances where medical personell can release any of your medical information. They are required by law to inform you of them sometime during the registration process. They are also required to provide you with a copy of these for your personal records if you request it. I don't like Obama but it had nothing to do with your chl or the fact you are a veteran. And btw.......thank you for serving our country and protecting our constitution.
 
1. BC1 is correct. Medical records are confidential. Only in extreme circumstances are things reported to authorities, such as children with injuries from a parent, or in the case of suicidal people, they can be placed in a mental hospital for 72 hours for evaluation.
2. Feeling stressed is what a normal human does throughout their life. If you respond yes, you are normal. Feeling stressed is not psychopathology nor is it illegal nor does it pose a threat to society.
3. Feeling threatened is more reason to get a CCW. In Colorado, if I felt threatened, I could get an emergency CCW permit.
4. Homeland security has bigger things to worry about than a person who feels stressed.
 
How did they nurse know the individual even had a carry permit to lose? Wait.... I know his CCW badge and T-shirt gave him away!
 
Yeah, my wife was the HIPAA officer at a local university for years and she keeps telling me how private my medical info is.

I'm still kinda thinking that Homeland probably has a back door somewhere. In some instances I think they should to keep the US out of Bad Doo Doo but in other instances I think they should keep their noses out of my business.

What a conundrum huh?

KK
 
Cougaram,
Thank you for the Information.I can not believe they have Stooped that low.I guess being a Vetetan is no longer good enough.

Now they want to attack you where it hurts. This really pisses me off. I'm so angry I dont know what to do. Ok going to ponder on this one, before opening my big mouth. Thanks Again for sharing.
 
I am curious about the statement in one of the posts above that you can not leave your firearm in the car if going to the VA. I am guessing that this presumes you are parking on VA property?

Any references to the law about this?
 
alas
good old boys are not going to give up
there dogs or guns - law or no law
a-men to that brother i see that hand
blessings
 
Please pass this on to all the other retired guys and gun owners...Thanks


From a Vietnam Vet and retired Police Officer:

I had a doctors appointment at the local VA clinic yesterday and found out
something very interesting that I would like to pass along.
While going through triage before seeing the doctor, I was asked at the
end of the exam, three questions:
1. Did I feel stressed?
2. Did I feel threatened?
3. Did I feel like doing harm to someone?
The nurse then informed me, that if I had answered yes to any of the questions, I would have lost my concealed carry permit as it would have gone into my medical records and the VA would have reported it to
Homeland Security.


Looks like they are going after the vets first. Other gun people like retired law enforcement will probably be next. Then when they go after the civilians, what
argument will they have? Be forewarned and be aware.
The Obama administration has gone on record as considering veterans and gun owners potential terrorists.



Whether you are a gun owner veteran or not, YOU"VE BEEN WARNED !



If you know veterans and gun owners, please pass this on to them. Be very cautious about what you say and to whom.

This is vital to know! Thank you for your info.
 
It has happened

Google Francesca Rice in Lakewood Ohio.

It is not clear what exactly precipitated it, but something at the VA prompted the police to go to her apartment. She was not home, yet they went in without a warrant took her guns.

While she eventually got them back, but it took several months and a law suit.

In reference to medical privacy. A health care professional is required to notify certain people if a patient has stated they want to injure themselves or others. A yes answer to the questions, especially the third one, related in the OP could be construed as wanting to injure themselves or others.
 
Cougaram,
Thank you for the Information.I can not believe they have Stooped that low.I guess being a Vetetan is no longer good enough.

Now they want to attack you where it hurts. This really pisses me off. I'm so angry I dont know what to do. Ok going to ponder on this one, before opening my big mouth. Thanks Again for sharing.


They're waaaaatching you! ;)

KK
 
I am curious about the statement in one of the posts above that you can not leave your firearm in the car if going to the VA. I am guessing that this presumes you are parking on VA property?

Any references to the law about this?
Yes, carrying a firearm on the premises of any facility controlled by the veteran's administration is illegal. This is also true of the post office, IRS, Soial Security Administration, FAA offices, etc. All of these places post signs that state thje applicable section of the law. Most VA hospitals have parking lots. The signs are posted at the entry to the grounds.
 
Here' an interesting find... taken with a grain of salt.

Veterans Administration Gives FBI Health Secrets
Veterans records could block firearms purchases
By Jon E. Dougherty

Record-sharing practices by federal government agencies may be preventing certain veterans and their beneficiaries from buying guns.

A division of the Department of Veterans Affairs has provided the FBI’s National Instant Background Check System, or NICS, with confidential medical competency data on tens of thousands of veterans and beneficiaries for the purposes of denying “incompetent” veterans the right to “purchase or redeem a firearm.”

According to a Veteran’s Benefits Administration, or VBA, memo issued June 2, in November 1999, the agency “provided NICS with an initial load of data on incompetent veterans, surviving spouses, adult helpless children and dependent parents from information in the Benefits Delivery Network and the Fiduciary Beneficiary System.”

The memo said the information transfer to the FBI “consisted of data on 88,898 beneficiaries which were loaded into the NICS index” for cross-referencing in case a named veteran or beneficiary attempted to purchase a gun.

The agency said when the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms drafted the regulations for NICS, the agency “defined the seven categories of individuals prohibited from purchasing or redeeming firearms.”

BATF, the memo said, incorporated the Department of Veterans Affairs’ definition of incompetent—which says that “because of injury or disease [a person may] lack the mental capacity to contract or manage their own affairs”—into the “category of those adjudicated as a mental defective.”

The VBA, through a “Memorandum of Understanding,” is providing the FBI “with information on veterans rated as incompetent,” the memo stated.

Furthermore, the VBA said the law requires it to “routinely provide updated information on ‘new’ incompetents.” And, the agency said, “if an individual previously rated incompetent has their competency restored, under the law they are still permanently restricted from purchasing or redeeming a firearm and information concerning that individual will not be stricken from the NICS index.”

The agency is currently developing procedures to “provide NICS with data on veterans and beneficiaries that have been determined to be incompetent since November 1999 and for periodic future updates.”

VBA officials did not return repeated phone calls for comment.

However, an FBI spokesman who talked with WorldNetDaily called the plan “a good idea” and a way “to prevent those who are mentally incapable of having a gun from getting one.”

Others have expressed outrage and regret upon learning of the VBA’s release of veterans’ health records to a government law-enforcement agency.

“We’re concerned about this information on law abiding citizens being turned over [to the FBI],” said Brian Naranjo, a spokesman for the American Legion.

He added that while the organization has “always supported obeying the law and law enforcement,” its membership “has also always supported the Second Amendment’s right to bear arms.”

And, Naranjo added, “The thing is these people are veterans. They served their country honorably and were discharged honorably. They shouldn’t be denied their rights.”

He said the Legion was also concerned about the possibility that mistakes contained in the information the VBA has given to the FBI could wrongly prevent some vets from buying a gun. He noted that the organization “will be studying this in detail and issuing” a strong statement “clarifying our position” in the near future.

According to the VBA memo, NICS and the FBI have requested a “quarterly review of a sampling” of records and information being transferred, “for quality assurance purposes.”

The goal of the sampling—which used just 107 cases out of the thousands transferred—was “to confirm the determination of incompetency” made by Veteran’s Affairs, “as well as the beneficiary’s Social Security number and date of birth.”

The VBA memo said that in all cases examined in the sampling, the incompetency rating was found to be appropriate in all cases.

However, “a number of cases” contained mistakes, including misspelled names, missing name components (such as middle initials or titles like “Jr.”), as well as Social Security and birth-date errors.

The memo said personnel corrected the mistakes. The next scheduled sampling review is this month, though no date was provided.

The VBA also addressed the procedures beneficiaries should take if they are denied the right to buy a gun.

If a veteran or beneficiary was denied because of his or her competency rating, “he or she may request the reason for the denial from the agency that conducted the check of the NICS data,” said the memo.

Even if a person who was formerly judged to be mentally incompetent has had competency restored, the memo said, they must still “appeal to the denying agency,” such as “the FBI, or state or local law enforcement ...”

Meanwhile, on Wednesday, David R. Loesch, assistant director in charge of the Criminal Justice Information Services Division—which manages the NICS data—appeared before the Senate Judiciary Committee to report on the instant-background system.

“The FBI continues to work to build the volume and completeness of records in the NICS, but the accuracy of the records currently in the NICS appears to be quite high,” Loesch told the committee in testimony on Capitol Hill.

“The NICS has a very effective appeals system which allows individuals who wish to contest a denial to appeal the decision,” he said. However, he added, “less than 1 percent of all checks conducted by the NICS Operations Center have resulted in denials that are subsequently reversed.”

“These reversals affect only 3.3 percent of all denials by the NICS Operations Center and in about half of these reversals, the mistake was the result of information missing from the original record,” Loesch said.
 

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