Concealed Carry at Work - Discovered!

[Monkey9]

Honestly cannot fathom why our soldiers should disarm on base. Fish in a barrel? Sounds like policy needs to be reviewed and updated. It's a new world out there.

 

[WingRider]

Some great discussion, so far. Monkey9, I like what you said: "It may be a right to carry, but not always wise." That's really the issue: Right vs Wise. Or, Right (the noun) vs Right (the adjective). People are legally entitled to carry concealed. But am I (or you or whoever) prepared to lose one's job, or worse, one's professional reputation over it? I know many HR people and have hired many people myself. Guess where hiring managers go first: LinkedIn. Who do I know at the candidate's last company that will tell me what happened? And they talk. They aren't allowed to, at least in Colorado except to verify dates, salaries, duties, etc. But they talk. And out of every 10 or 50 or 100 jobs one applies to, maybe they get 5 or 10 calls. Out of those, a few interviews. Maybe an offer comes, and maybe it suddenly vanishes...

Which is why I am interested in hearing about situations where this happened. I struggle with the issue of whether carrying at work does more to protect me physically or more to hurt me financially, reputationally, and professionally.

I appreciate the dialogue and hope it continues.

Thank you,

WingRider

 

[macmanjim]

Some great discussion, so far. Monkey9, I like what you said: "It may be a right to carry, but not always wise." That's really the issue: Right vs Wise. Or, Right (the noun) vs Right (the adjective). People are legally entitled to carry concealed. But am I (or you or whoever) prepared to lose one's job, or worse, one's professional reputation over it? I know many HR people and have hired many people myself. Guess where hiring managers go first: LinkedIn. Who do I know at the candidate's last company that will tell me what happened? And they talk. They aren't allowed to, at least in Colorado except to verify dates, salaries, duties, etc. But they talk. And out of every 10 or 50 or 100 jobs one applies to, maybe they get 5 or 10 calls. Out of those, a few interviews. Maybe an offer comes, and maybe it suddenly vanishes...

Which is why I am interested in hearing about situations where this happened. I struggle with the issue of whether carrying at work does more to protect me physically or more to hurt me financially, reputationally, and professionally.

I appreciate the dialogue and hope it continues.

Thank you,

WingRider

And if the applicant finds out, they can sue. It's not hard. There are companies that do reference checks and record the conversations. Then it gets ugly. It's best to keep one's mouth shut as you could lose your job for talking too...The other thing is, you are getting one person's opinion and who knows the context. Someone could have had a horror of a boss and now you call that boss...It's not 100% and like you said, not legal.

​

 

[mflem]

Agree with most everything here.

For the folks who are upset about a/your company infringing upon your constitutional rights...I get it. While my company does not have a policy in place against CCW and my employer knows I intend to carry upon receipt of my permit, I can definitely share in the frustration of those who are not permitted. A close friend of mine, the very person who helped me become aware of my right/responsibility to CCW, works for DOD at an air force base in Ohio and is not permitted to carry nor to even have his weapon stored in his vehicle while on property.

I am 100% in support of my constitutional right to bear arms and CCW (as soon as my 90+ days are up!)

However..

I am also 100% in support of:

A) Obeying the law (whether I agree with it or not)
B) Making morally sound and ethical decisions
C) Utilizing my right to bear/CCW responsibly, as a representative of gun owner's nationwide

 

[macmanjim]

Agree with most everything here.

For the folks who are upset about a/your company infringing upon your constitutional rights...I get it. While my company does not have a policy in place against CCW and my employer knows I intend to carry upon receipt of my permit, I can definitely share in the frustration of those who are not permitted. A close friend of mine, the very person who helped me become aware of my right/responsibility to CCW, works for DOD at an air force base in Ohio and is not permitted to carry nor to even have his weapon stored in his vehicle while on property.

I am 100% in support of my constitutional right to bear arms and CCW (as soon as my 90+ days are up!)

However..

I am also 100% in support of:

A) Obeying the law (whether I agree with it or not)
B) Making morally sound and ethical decisions
C) Utilizing my right to bear/CCW responsibly, as a representative of gun owner's nationwide

So you never have gone faster than the speed limit?

​

 

[kerb]

your bowing down to illegal infringement of a God-given right, recognised by our Constitution. Bottom line: the RIGHT to keep and bear arms SHALL NOT be infringed. When someone/thing comes along and infringes that basic, God-given right, guess what trumps which?

Roe vs Wade made it "legal" to murder unborn babies. Does that change God's law and make it "right"? How about Massachussetts, "legalising" what thney call "marriage" between two people of the same sex. Does that redefine "marriage" as established by God at the beginnning? How aobut we all agree to henceforth refer to a huge (about three or four tonnes weight) grey quadruped mammal with a long, flexible appendage in front, hanging down between two large (maybe six foot long?) white tooth-like structures, as an "ant". We all agree this would be a good thing. Now, does that MAKE the elephant BECOME an ant? Of course not.

Now, back to arms restrictions.... the law is no law because it contradicts our Constitution. Thus, it need not be obeyed. Then, one has the decision to openly defy policy and carry boldly, risking getting fired, or being quiet, deceitful, about it and protecting one's rights AND one's means of support.. that is a personal decision I cannot make for anyonne else. Nor will I judge another for going either way with it.

Ethics definitely do come into play.... but lets begin with the ethics of the one unlawfully restricting the rights of those in his employ. Honesty? Let's call a spade a spade.... the greater law of our right to arms is being tossed in favour of the presonal preference of management. Yet they will NOT ever admit to being outside the law, or ethics. The dishonesty commences with the restrictions. I will match their dishonesty about the denial of MY right to arms with my dishonesty inn order to retain my position. I harm no one, their decision DOES harm those too timid to stand for their rights against the system.

I don't think you really want anyone to call a spade a spade. If you did, someone might point out that your code of "ethics" appears to be situational at best.
You might want to go look up what the word means. Hint: ethical behavior does not generally involve sneaking around.

 

[kerb]

Infringement means by the government. Contracts made between people are a different story. If you take a job and the rules are that no guns are allowed on the premises, as part of your employment, you have agreed to it. It's voluntary. You don't have to abide by it and they don't have to employ you baring a contract on employment, but violation of policy can void the contract. It's just like when a business has a policy of no guns on the premises. It's there business and property, not yours.

As far as Roe V. Wade goes, it was bad law, even if you agree with the pro-choice argument. As far as god's law, I didn't see him petition before the supreme court either. Such affairs are left to men.

​

Well put. But now I'm confused about your earlier post, where you mention something about the employer's policy, not the employee's. I don't understand what you meant by that. Employees don't generally make policy; employers do that. At least as it pertains to the job.

 

[mflem]

So you never have gone faster than the speed limit?

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Cute point but if that's all you took away from what I'm saying - I'm sorry.

Of course I have gone faster than the speed limit. I try not to. I feel the intent to knowingly CCW in a business/property that legally bans it differs greatly from occasionally doing 76 in a 65. If I drove with the intent to speed everyday because my desire to arrive at my destinations quickly outweighed my desire to obey the law, it would be with the understanding that I'm breaking the law and there are consequences if I am "discovered."

If it is not my intent to break the law, then I clearly do not understand the law, and would be in need of some study/re-training.

Again...I am 100% in support of my constitutional right to bear (and conceal) arms. It's my personal choice to do so responsibly, ethically, and legally.

 

[macmanjim]

Well put. But now I'm confused about your earlier post, where you mention something about the employer's policy, not the employee's. I don't understand what you meant by that. Employees don't generally make policy; employers do that. At least as it pertains to the job.

What it comes down to is choice. We have laws and policies. We choose to follow them or not. As someone said in a post, they follow the law 100%. Really? Anyone that has driven a car has exceeded the speed limit, gone through a stop sign or red light etc, at some point in their life. No one is perfect in following orders, dictum or laws of man for that matter and if there is someone as such, I bet they lead a boring life.

Robert Heinlein said it best:

“I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do.”
― Robert A. Heinlein

And that is where it stands.

​

 

[Treo]

Every time this topic (in whatever variation) comes up I same the same thing; if you choose to carry at work there is no reason to tell anyone you work with regardless of how close you may or may not be to them. Once you tell one person regardless of who it is only a matter of time before everyone you work with knows it.

The easiest way to avoid the conflicts you mention is to simply keep it to yourself that you are carrying

 

[rchery59]

Just curious. Do ethics or honesty come into play at all? It doesn't speak well of a person's character if he or she intentionally defies an employer's policy. At least that's my thought.

As I stated before in my post, Some of my managers also carry, breaking company policy. As far as ethics go, I don't believe for a minute it is unethical to carry a gun. As I stated it is not on my person Just easily accessable Just in case.(locked in a lockbox) Would you walk into a store while carrying if the store had a sign prohibiting guns ? Is that unethical ? Maybe maybe not. It certainly is not illegal. At least not in my state.
I guess my only point is ,at my place of employment, The legal team has made a rule , no weapons. (this is a company of 1300 employees 24 locations) Upper management is completely aware of the fact certain people carry.
My only real point is You may be surprised if you really knew how many people carried at work, whether your employer allows it or not.

 

[AZSDFT]

Honestly cannot fathom why our soldiers should disarm on base. Fish in a barrel? Sounds like policy needs to be reviewed and updated. It's a new world out there.

I am retired Military and have asked that question for over 3 decades. I have been stationed in countries where the military are assigned firearms they carry every minute they are on duty. And not just on Post/Base either, everywhere they go during their day they have the firearm.

 

[fudo]

Just curious. Do ethics or honesty come into play at all? It doesn't speak well of a person's character if he or she intentionally defies an employer's policy. At least that's my thought.

Ethics and honesty are important virtues, but self preservation is always the first law. If you're dead the other virtues are insignificant.

 

[mflem]

Just curious. Do ethics or honesty come into play at all? It doesn't speak well of a person's character if he or she intentionally defies an employer's policy. At least that's my thought.

Ethics and honesty are important virtues, but self preservation is always the first law. If you're dead the other virtues are insignificant.

So here's what I'm taking away from what most of you guys are saying...

I'm currently waiting for my CCW permit to arrive in the mail. Unfortunately I have several weeks left. As the general consensus of this discussion is that self preservation and my "right" to CCW outweighs the need for ethics, honesty, and following laws/policy...should I just start carrying now? Why have I even taken the time and spent the money to lawfully obtain a permit if I don't intend to use it legally/responsibly?

 

[Hoganbeg]

So here's what I'm taking away from what most of you guys are saying...

I'm currently waiting for my CCW permit to arrive in the mail. Unfortunately I have several weeks left. As the general consensus of this discussion is that self preservation and my "right" to CCW outweighs the need for ethics, honesty, and following laws/policy...should I just start carrying now? Why have I even taken the time and spent the money to lawfully obtain a permit if I don't intend to use it legally/responsibly?

You are changing the parameters of your original questions. You said you weren't asking about legalities. Your question was about OTHERS' experiences and stated that in your work environment it would be legal so I don't understand why you are now coming up with this "...if I don't intend to use it legally/responsibly" stuff. Yes, it is unethical to lie but it is also unethical to reject personal responsibility for your own safety. Without too much effort you can come up with scenarios in which it is unethical not to lie. The bottom line is, YOU have to decide which path is for the greatest good and causes the least harm.

 

[coachdb18]

I work for a hospital. I would NEVER carry at work. Not only is it against policy, I can see why it could be a problem. I know security's number by heart. It may be a right to carry, but not always wise. Just saying

The fact it's a hospital setting doesn't mean you're safe from gunfire... in fact, one of the places where several incidents of gunfire have taken place in my area is at the main entrance to the hospital of a major local medical center, where gang bangers went to finish their incomplete disagreements, complete with continued gunfire. That said, most hospitals have no-guns policies.

 

[Seeya]

I am retired Military and have asked that question for over 3 decades. I have been stationed in countries where the military are assigned firearms they carry every minute they are on duty. And not just on Post/Base either, everywhere they go during their day they have the firearm.

Same here, with or without the locals knowing.

 

[mflem]

You are changing the parameters of your original questions. You said you weren't asking about legalities. Your question was about OTHERS' experiences and stated that in your work environment it would be legal so I don't understand why you are now coming up with this "...if I don't intend to use it legally/responsibly" stuff. Yes, it is unethical to lie but it is also unethical to reject personal responsibility for your own safety. Without too much effort you can come up with scenarios in which it is unethical not to lie. The bottom line is, YOU have to decide which path is for the greatest good and causes the least harm.

I didn't ask the original questions. This post was started by another user.

Appreciate your input though!

 

[fudo]

So here's what I'm taking away from what most of you guys are saying...

I'm currently waiting for my CCW permit to arrive in the mail. Unfortunately I have several weeks left. As the general consensus of this discussion is that self preservation and my "right" to CCW outweighs the need for ethics, honesty, and following laws/policy...should I just start carrying now? Why have I even taken the time and spent the money to lawfully obtain a permit if I don't intend to use it legally/responsibly?

I think that you misunderstand me. CCW rights and constitutionality we can set aside for a later time. IF you decide to CCW against policy and it becomes known, you will, in all likelihood, be fired. Depending on the circumstances, you might even have criminal charges filed against you, with all that entails. What I said is that IF you get killed at work, your company will be properly sorrowful for your family, but their job (and that of their attorneys) is to deflect responsibility away from themselves and dump it on you, if that is necessary to protect themselves legally. IF you choose to allow their legal ass covering to leave you defenseless in the face of lethal violence, you will be dead, your spouse a widow(er), and your children without a parent to guide them and provide for them as they grow up.
What I said is that I can get a new job easier than I can get a new life and someone to provide for my family 'till they grow up. Choose wisely.

 

[Hoganbeg]

I didn't ask the original questions. This post was started by another user.

Appreciate your input though!

You are quite right! I don't know how I missed that and I stand corrected; my apologies.