Conceal Carry laws


harleydad53

New member
I believe that all good, law abiding American's should be able to carry under a federal mandate conceal hand gun carry law that would extend to all states.....We need to get our legislature to work hard to protect our rights....Honest law abiding citizens need to protect our selves and families from evil and deranged criminals that will find a way to get hold of a handgun or rifle to cause pain and suffering.........Is there some sort of National Conceal carry law in the works and if not, Why on Gods green earth not??
 

BluesStringer

Les Brers
........Is there some sort of National Conceal carry law in the works and if not, Why on Gods green earth not??

While I understand the tendency to believe such a law would be a good thing for all American gun owners, the answer is fairly simple. Any action concerning guns that originates from the federal government, whether through Congress or SCOTUS, is bad for individual and states' rights. I would say that's true for any issue, whether about guns or not, with the constitutional (and obvious) exception of national defense.

Many, if not most, of the regular posters around here believe that any requirement to ask permission from government to exercise our 2A rights is a violation of said right, whether originating at the state or federal level. If we invite the .fedgov to take control over any part of the various regulations and restrictions on that issue, believe me, they'll be all too happy to regulate it to death.

Please don't ask the .fedgov to force my state into abiding by its "constitutional" standards. My state ain't *perfect* in its adherence to the Constitution, but the .fedgov has been using that document as toilet paper for well over 100 years, and my state at least still gives deference to the idea of constitutionally limited government . There is no reason at all to believe that the .fedgov's involvement in carry laws will benefit people who carry guns. The evidence overwhelmingly suggests that the exact opposite effect will result in its involvement.

Blues
 

jameshd

CMFWIC
I dunno, Blues. He might have a point. I've been advocating for years that the federal government issue a driver's license. You could get a federal license and be legally able to drive in any of the 57 states (Obama can't be wrong, can he?), or you could get one from the state in which you live, which would only be valid in 50 states as a visitor. With the federal license you wouldn't have the problem of changing to a different state's license every time you move, which you do now. You can legally drive in Alabama with a Kansas license, but if you move from Kansas to Alabama you have to get an Alabama license now. It would be a bit easier if there was a federal permit that you would just have to change the address for. And a federal concealed carry permit could work the same way: You could either have a state permit, good in some states, or a federal permit, good in any state. The only reason I haven't been pushing the driver license idea is that I don't really think the federal government needs to get their hands involved in anything more than they do now.
 

Mr. Jozsef

New member
I'm a newbie here but just from the standpoint of a Virginian, I'm frustrated that my permit isn't recognized in almost all New England states as I travel further north. But I'm with Blues on this one. Any time the federal government legislates on any issue, the ultimate result is a loss in freedom.
 

BluesStringer

Les Brers
I dunno, Blues. He might have a point. I've been advocating for years that the federal government issue a driver's license. You could get a federal license and be legally able to drive in any of the 57 states (Obama can't be wrong, can he?), or you could get one from the state in which you live, which would only be valid in 50 states as a visitor. With the federal license you wouldn't have the problem of changing to a different state's license every time you move, which you do now. You can legally drive in Alabama with a Kansas license, but if you move from Kansas to Alabama you have to get an Alabama license now. It would be a bit easier if there was a federal permit that you would just have to change the address for. And a federal concealed carry permit could work the same way: You could either have a state permit, good in some states, or a federal permit, good in any state. The only reason I haven't been pushing the driver license idea is that I don't really think the federal government needs to get their hands involved in anything more than they do now.

Driver's licenses and permission slips to exercise an enumerated right are two different things. The only .fedgov involvement that can benefit gun rights nationwide is if SCOTUS makes a ruling overturning all federal legislation on guns, leaving the 2nd Amendment with its plain English, "...the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed" as the totality of the law on keeping and bearing. Since that ain't ever gonna happen, leave 'em out of it, and accept that, as unconstitutional as it may be, leave the issue to the 50 sovereign states.

There's nothing in the Constitution intended to protect "convenience" over the letter or spirit of the laws contained within it. If you don't like the carry laws in the state you live in, move. That's exactly what I did after spending the first 15 years of my adult life fighting an unwinnable war against the tyrants ruling California. Don't take the lazy man's way out and try to change the constitutional role of the .fedgov when simply picking up and voting with your feet will accomplish what you want in the way of gun-rights recognition as long as you pick the right state to move to. Expanding the .fedgov's authority is a very liberal position. I am a bit right of Genghis Khan. I will fight federal expansion as vociferously as if my very freedom depended on it, which in actuality, it does. And I'm hardly alone.

Blues
 
B

Bikenut

Guest
I wish folks would stop thinking a "carry permit" or a "law that allows concealed carry" is somehow the right to bear arms! If you have a right to something or to do something you do NOT have to ask the government for permission. When you have to ask permission ... you know... get a "permit" or a "license" then you don't have a right.. all you have is a privilege that is controlled by the government. And that government WILL CONTROL who, when, where, why, and what, is not only allowed but what is not allowed.

It's bad enough that each State has it's own set of control criteria but to ask the Feds to get involved is asking to have all States carry permits (which are NOT the right to bear arms!) made so the control criteria is the same since the States with the most strict restrictions/requirements are not going to suddenly relax them... and eventually all States permit systems would end up being controlled by the most strict of requirements.

Don't like the permit issued by your State not being recognized in other States? Well.... spend some time and figure out what non resident permits you need to pay for so you will have permits recognized where you want to go. That way just those who want to travel pay for their wanting to carry where they travel instead of making everyone, including those who do not travel, suffer under some Federal permit system.

Here is a good place to start researching... and if there isn't enough info there then a simple google search for " concealed carry reciprocity " will bring up more info.

Concealed Carry Permit Reciprocity Maps - USA Carry

By the way.... does anyone really want the Feds, headed up by Obama or another just like him with a phone and a pen, to have any power over carry permits? Think on that!!!!!
 

BluesStringer

Les Brers
By the way.... does anyone really want the Feds, headed up by Obama or another just like him with a phone and a pen, to have any power over carry permits? Think on that!!!!!

Obviously some, maybe even a lot, of folks do want that, as the argument comes up only a little less often than the "best" caliber or what have you. Great way to make the point though. Maybe you got through to some of 'em since just reading the 2nd and 10th Amendments wasn't enough up to now.
_shrug__or__dunno__by_crula.gif


Blues
 

jameshd

CMFWIC
I was NOT seriously proposing that the federal government issue a carry permit. They already have their hands in too many things. It was just an idea. I do like the driver license idea, but, as you said, driving is a privilege and bearing arms is a right. I have a Kansas carry permit now (and don't really think I should have to have one, but lack the funds to pay a lawyer if I'm caught without one) and it is recognized in all the states that I plan to visit (except Illinois; that's one reason I don't visit relatives there oftener), and I will obtain another if I decide to go somewhere else. The way the government operates these days, if they started issuing one we would end up with only theirs, and they would control it drastically.
 

Firefighterchen

OC for Tactical Advantage
I believe that all good, law abiding American's should be able to carry under a federal mandate conceal hand gun carry law that would extend to all states.....We need to get our legislature to work hard to protect our rights....Honest law abiding citizens need to protect our selves and families from evil and deranged criminals that will find a way to get hold of a handgun or rifle to cause pain and suffering.........Is there some sort of National Conceal carry law in the works and if not, Why on Gods green earth not??

I was NOT seriously proposing that the federal government issue a carry permit. They already have their hands in too many things. It was just an idea. I do like the driver license idea, but, as you said, driving is a privilege and bearing arms is a right. I have a Kansas carry permit now (and don't really think I should have to have one, but lack the funds to pay a lawyer if I'm caught without one) and it is recognized in all the states that I plan to visit (except Illinois; that's one reason I don't visit relatives there oftener), and I will obtain another if I decide to go somewhere else. The way the government operates these days, if they started issuing one we would end up with only theirs, and they would control it drastically.

Driving wasn't always a privilege...it got legislated into one just like our gun Rights.

If the government doesn't follow Constitutional law now, what makes you think they will follow another law later? maybe we should make it illegal for criminals to carry firearms again...since then they would definitely follow the law...

Sent from my HTCONE using USA Carry mobile app
 

MGB Driver

New member
Gonna' add my two cents worth here by saying the Federal Govt. already has their hands in way too much of our lives that they have no business in, and this is an issue that belongs to each sovergn state, if indeed it needs to be governed at all.
 

whap

New member
It's called the second amendment!

I believe that all good, law abiding American's should be able to carry under a federal mandate conceal hand gun carry law that would extend to all states.....We need to get our legislature to work hard to protect our rights....Honest law abiding citizens need to protect our selves and families from evil and deranged criminals that will find a way to get hold of a handgun or rifle to cause pain and suffering.........Is there some sort of National Conceal carry law in the works and if not, Why on Gods green earth not??

The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.
Since when have we Americans been expected to bow submisssively to authority and speak with awe and reverence to those who represent us?
In other words, you would convince indiviuals to concede their Second Amendment Rights for the illusion of greater public safety!
This is absolutely the most blatant example of brainwashing by Government as yet.
Why do I need a permit? Because of an unconstitutional law was passed?
Am I a criminal for demanding my Second Amendment Rights?
The Amendment's phrase "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms" creates an individual constitutional right for citizens of the United States. The United States Constitution restricts legislative bodies from Amendments that renders prohibitory and restrictive regulation presumptively unconstitutional.
You must acknowledge that the U.S. Constitution and Bill of Rights is, indeed, the supreme law of the land and "allow" residents to carry concealed firearms. "justifiable need" for carrying a gun in public argued in 2010 suit. That a law that requires gun owners who want a concealed weapons permit to ask permission from a police official or a judge, or a gun board, is an unconstitutional restraint on their Second Amendment right to own and carry a firearm.
Were individuals prior to this regulation doing illegal things who were law abiding firearm owning citizens? I pray there are brave and courageous individuals in all states who would stand up against unjust laws and be counted.
* Murdock v Penn, 319 U.S. 105: clearly established that no state could convert a secured liberty into a privilege and issue a license and a fee for it.
Anything that stands in the way of that right is blatantly unconstitutional. We believe that the Second Amendment right to self-protection and defense of liberty should be granted to all those eligible including everyone of legal age, and those who are not violent criminals.
* Shuttlesworth v Birm, 394 U.S. 147: Said that if the state does convert your right into a privilege and charge a license and a fee for it you can ignore the license and fee, and engage in the right with impunity. That means they can't punish you…they have to let you go.
The Supreme Court’s decision is crystal clear: Handguns that are used by people for self-defense and other lawful purposes cannot be banned, to ask permission from a police official or a judge is an unconstitutional whether the state likes it or not. They need to accept the Second Amendment reality and stop this nonsense.”
While many may not like guns and could care less if there were a gun in the world or not, there are many individuals who believe that the God-given right of men to defend themselves against tyranny and slavery are not to be encroached upon by others. Our founding fathers knew it as inalienable truth and set forth a means to ensure that this right should not be discarded by governments instituted by men. Whether you realize it or not, those without a means to protect themselves are subject to gross violations of every evil conceivable by man. It is only the Second Amendments ability to bear arms that ensures all other God-given rights.
The 2nd amendment was written in blood. The Bill of Rights was added to the constitution as insurance to protect us from oppressive federal gov't gun grabbers. You disagree, then please cite the article, section, and clause from the U.S. Constitution that grants the federal or state gov't the power to make laws concerning guns & ammo. You won't find it and since the Bill of Rights grants them no power, neither the president or congress has any power to make laws that infringe on the right to keep & bear arms. All federal and state gun laws are infringement and as such unconstitutional.
Your actions that would force me to travel unarmed is to subject me to gross violations of every evil conceivable by man.
 

chevydave

New member
I'm with you WHAP! As you correctly point out the SCOTUS has ruled on that, a "State cannot license or tax a right guaranteed by our Constitution". Yet they all do it! My neighbor state, MA charges $100 a year for a non-res ccw! I, for one, cannot afford that. That's 5x the resident fee for 1/5th the time. Sorry, but I see that as Extortion!
 

ljnowell

New member
I could support such a thing, but only under one condition, the federal govt has nothing to do with it. No issuing of a permit nothing.

Every state already issues their own. A single paragraph law that states "all states must honor all other states conceal carry permits" would be fine.

States that want to be more strict on their residents can, states that don't do not have to.

It works with drivers licenses.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Firefighterchen

OC for Tactical Advantage
I could support such a thing, but only under one condition, the federal govt has nothing to do with it. No issuing of a permit nothing.

Every state already issues their own. A single paragraph law that states "all states must honor all other states conceal carry permits" would be fine.

States that want to be more strict on their residents can, states that don't do not have to.

It works with drivers licenses.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

What about states that do not require permits?

Sent from my HTCONE using USA Carry mobile app
 

NCIC105

New member
Do you think your Government is gonna give you this much freedom?


While I think, we all have the right, I can't see these AHoles giving up any of the imagined power they have.
 
B

Bikenut

Guest
I wish folks would understand the Feds will NOT craft a bill that instantly allows everyone to conceal carry all over the U.S. without also mandating what a person must do in order to be given that privilege. That's right.... it would not be just your permit being good in all States because the Feds would only do it if the Feds could be in charge of what a concealed carry permit is, who is allowed to have one, what must be done in order to qualify for one, and how much it will cost.

Ask yourself.... do you really want Obama, Reid, Pelosi, Boxer, and the likes of Feinstein, in charge of the concealed carry system?

And I wish folks would stop calling a concealed carry permit "the right to bear arms". If you have to ask for a permission slip called a "permit" from the government it is NOT a right but is a privilege controlled by.... the government.

edited to add:
I just responded to a necro thread in which I had already responded with much the same response as I just did. That will teach me to read back further before putting fingers to keyboard.
 

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