Conceal Carry as a big man. possible legal troubles

O

orlean1

New member
Hi All

I am in the midst of taking my CCW and I've talked with several lawyers but haven't had a lot of feedback from CCW people my size. I'm 6'4 about 275 Very stocky. Most of the lawyers I have talked with gave me food for thought that because of my size I have to add in additional factor that someone smaller than me could not possibly pose a threat. The circumstance that I would face as with all people without a height advantage is the assailant would have to produce a deadly weapon and I would have to be in a position where it would not be advantageous to try and overpower the assailant.

I would like to know from large people what have been your thoughts and discussions about CCW in this area. I understand that once a deadly weapon is produced the playing field becomes somewhat equal but I also look at the fact that most people will back from someone from my size before engaging in any type of combat or robbery. That I do know from experience.

Just curious to hear some other perspectives in this area.

Thanks in advance

Vince
 
I was a competitive bodybuilder when young and have trained my whole life. I am not as big as you are but pretty big @6'220. A lawyer is the only real place to get legal advice. Are you talking to right type?
Many people believe Mas Ayoob has the best citizen CC and the law classes. They train all over the USA http://massadayoobgroup.com/
There are some books too. Ayoob has written one on the topic that is pretty good.

I am personally very much a believer in options, including non lethal. I carry OC spray everywhere. Otherwise IMO too often the old adage "if you only have a hammer everything looks like a nail". After the Zimmerman case I am myself am unsure how much if any the rules for disparity of force have changed. It seems to depend a lot where you live.


Go Seahawks!
 
It would depend on the situation. I am a big guy too - not as tall but heavier and I see no reason not to carry concealed. My take on any confrontation is that if there is ONLY verbal abuse and no physical threat is present i.e. the other party does not have a weapon and/or does not get physical then I am going to stand back and/or leave. If the other party attacks me physically i.e. hits me or produces a weapon and I can call 911 I will call and leave the line open so that there is a recording of what is going to happen. If after that I am still threatened well my gun comes out too.

I know that this may sound like a long time but I think that it is the prudent thing to do. I will personally do nothing to escalate the issue, walk away from the situation rather than escalate. My goal is to protect myself and my family not get into a fight.

You will have to make a split second decision and each situation will be different. I would not be afraid to carry a CCW just because you are a big guy. Flesh is flesh big or small.
 
The lawyers have a point... but they are talking courtroom details.

If you ever are in a situation where you need to draw, present and shoot your firearm, then you need to CONVINCE a jury (if it goes that far) that you were in mortal fear. If you can not convince them that you feared for your life in that situation, then YOU using lethal force will not be construed as self-defense. This is why your lawyer mentioned your size. The district attorney, will use your size against you in a jury trial.

As some before have said, don't limit yourself to either hand-to-hand or firearm and nothing else. Carry pepper spray and a cell phone too.

But if you have absolutely no other choice and someone presents a life threatening situation, you must do what you must do.
 
What Happypuppy said. I have taken some Massad Ayoob classes. you don't get much better than that when it comes to self defense and what happens afterwards.
 
Interesting comment from the lawyer. Myself, I'm 6'1" 280 minus 40 now, but still I have the look of a person in charge when I'm out and about. I've only had a couple of encounters that just the look of I know what your up to and I'm prepared, has given pause to a possible issue. In my humble opinion, it depends on the situation. If some young 150lb punk has the thought of endangering my family, friends, or my life, he/she had better prepare to be ready for the consequences. Every situation is different, I don't look for trouble and I stay out of the wrong areas. I have carried for several years now, and as mentioned, only had a couple possible situations where I may have used force. My mindset is this; If life threatening danger is coming my way, I take it out... If not, I retreat. Same thing we learned in fighter school. Head for the sun or clouds and live to fight another day. Weight / height should not be a reason not to get a CCW, and your CCW is a reason to train, train, train, and learn as much as you can, and be aware of your surroundings. Your CCW is not a YEEHAA to be a gunslinger. But it is a tool to continue to learn, train, and have the ability to defend yourself when the situation presents itself.

Hope this helps!
 
Some food for thought:
The argument many give for carrying concealed even when it's legal to open-carry is that they don't want the bad guy to have the advantage of knowing who's armed and choosing to target the open carrier first if they are determined to carry out their criminal plans. As a physically stout individual, you most likely are already perceived as a threat and may be targeted initially.

It's been decades since I read John Steinbeck's 'Of Mice and Men', but I remember the concept of small-statured people sometimes having a 'Badger Complex', the idea that they have to pick on the biggest and toughest looking in order to quell feelings of physical inadequacy. This can also make you a target.

The idea that a large man shouldn't carry a gun for protection is as valid as the idea that he shouldn't use a hammer to drive nails. Though physical attributes may allow him to drive nails with his bare hands, his hands will surely suffer in the process. The idea that the physically exceptional should be limited only to physical defense is cruel and very uncivilized.


Just my 2.39 cents worth (inflation)
 
I'm 6' 2", 370 lbs. My shoulders were destroyed with all the heavy lifting I used to do working at the airport.

Does size matter? Yes. But as has been said, "God made men, Sam Colt made them equal." The person who approaches me with a firearm (assuming for the sake of argument that I'm not carrying) has just neutralized my presumed advantage; unless he is a very bad shot, as targets go I will be difficult to miss. His firearm gives him a standoff capability that I must overcome before I can bring my size to bear. With a firearm in hand a much smaller criminal not only DARES to approach a much larger victim, he RELISHES the opportunity to do it.

Carry on. As they say, better to be judged by twelve than carried by six.
 
Are you trained in any MMA. Martial Arts, Boxing, Wrestling. Just because your an over sized person does not mean you won't be attacked someday. The Constitution wasn't just written for people under 6 Feet. Lawyers you cant live with them and can't live without them.
 
I am 6'5" and weigh in at 270 give or take a few. I have had some training for defense, specifically how to use and maintain possession of my firearm in a fight and how to stay in a state of controlled aggression. Stay calm and try to defuse the situation, but if that doesn't work... Hopefully that training will allow me to end the situation without having to use lethal force or get killed.

I would expect that my size would be a point of contention in court should I ever need to use deadly force, but my size should not prevent me from protecting myself if needed. I do know that if the situation puts me in fear of my life and there isno way to just leave I will defend myself and my loved ones and deal with the legalities later.

I agree with the earlier comment regarding calling 911 if possible and leaving the line item as a record of what happened. The instructor in my CCW class mentioned doing that if time permits.
 
MadMAF said:
Some food for thought:
The argument many give for carrying concealed even when it's legal to open-carry is that they don't want the bad guy to have the advantage of knowing who's armed and choosing to target the open carrier first if they are determined to carry out their criminal plans.
Click to expand...

This is a false argument against open carry as it rarely occurs. It's also not really an advantage to blend in with the pool of victims most criminals are going to actually pick from.

If anything, being as large as the op is, combined with open carry, I seriously doubt a criminal will pick him as an intended victim.

2 years open carrying here, not even close to a confrontation has occurred around me. Did my open carried firearm do that? I'd like to think so, but there really isn't a way to tell...kind of like those that feel a ccw gets them out of traffic tickets.

Sent from my HTCONE using USA Carry mobile app
 
I'm 6'1" & 190 +/-, and I carry. While size helps avoid confrontations, if you see a weapon you should fear for your life anyway. A man your size can be killed by a knife with a 3" blade, and it's not even too hard if the aggressor knows anatomy and can move fast. He doesn't need a gun, or a knife for that fact. Any 'weapon' can be deadly - just look at your state's list of 'deadly weapons' that citizens shouldn't be carrying. (Mine even includes 'anything capable of cutting'.)

I suspect you'd just need to point that out, along with the fact that you have no way of knowing if the attacker was trained or not, nor if he was just trying to be threatening or actually intending to kill you. All you know in that moment is what you see - a guy with a weapon who seems to be attacking you. If he's not stumbling around blind drunk, you should worry. But then, I'm no lawyer either.
 
I'm 6'6" 340. Conceal carrying makes me much more aware that I need to defuse any situation as best I can.

But, I've done Muy Thai and there are guys much smaller than me that could take me down if they got close enough. I've never been in such a situation, but if leaving and/ defusing aren't options, then defending is. I don't ever want to draw.

The size argument is just as invalid for a big man being able to defend against smaller as it is for a smaller man defenseless against a larger. Though, I do stand out in a crowd (especially when I weighed 535#), so I always worry about being selected because of my size. For some reason inebriated folks always think they can take me. Got plenty of that in college.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
 
I am still a large, once strong guy. My looks today are very deceiving. As I have gotten older (59) my body has taken a heavy tool from a hard working life in construction. I started feeling more and more like a target. Most of my major joints have some degree of arthritis. lower back and my neck have badly degraded disks as well. My wife (a former Marine) is 100% disabled, She walks with a cane and shuffles around the best that she can. I came to the decision last year that my looks will not do me very much good in a violent situation. So I started carrying full time. Neither of us can move anything resembling quickly. My knees are all torn up and it is very hard to back up without falling.
So I do not care what size a potential assailant might be, if he shows a weapon, I am shooting. Lawyers be damned I will deal with them later. I use to think I could handle myself even just a few years ago. I can look really intimidating . But today I realize it is all bluff.
 
6'-6" - weight fluctuates between 245 and 260 due to steroid injections for a couple of different maladies. I've also worked in construction, as a welder mostly, though it was more than 20 years since my last job in that field. Still, it took its toll. Had a couple of back surgeries, fusion of L-1 through S-1, got gout and plantar faciitis, arthritis in my hands got so bad that a couple of years ago I sold all my music gear because it hurt too much to play anymore. Just said to my wife last night that since I stopped playing, my hands haven't given me much trouble. Maybe all I really needed was a long break, and because of that, I do regret selling all the gear, but if it was here, I'd have been playing. But I digress....

Size has never meant anything to me. Never been, or wanted to be, a tough guy. My size may have meant something to victimizers who decided an easier target would be coming by shortly, but if that ever happened, I didn't know about it. What I do know is that I'm not a fighter. Been in one fist-fight in my entire life - maybe age 16 or so, don't really recall. The other guy shoved me, I tried to walk away, he shoved me again and then nailed me in the left cheek, after which I swung for all I was worth with my right and knocked him out cold. I stuck around long enough to make sure he was alright and then split. I didn't enjoy it at all. Found it a really disgusting thing to be involved in. But I never felt guilty for (temporarily) hurting the guy because he left me no real choice. I was 6'-6" at the time, but only weighed 145 soakin' wet. I was hardly intimidating. Only poundage *might* make a tall guy intimidating, but then weight brings with it its own physical limitations as most of the posters in this thread can attest to.

Anyway, I have studied very assiduously how to be both highly prepared for trouble since then, and how to avoid it at *almost* all costs. My physical challenges are easily documented in court, but I really don't think they're going to be much of a consideration if I ever have to shoot someone in self defense. Wouldn't matter if I was built like Arnie Schwartz-a-whatever, or if I could fight like John Jones, if I draw and fire, I am confident enough in my training to know that there was no other choice. As long as anyone, big man or otherwise, keeps the "no other choice" as their standard for engaging with a gun, it is highly unlikely that legal troubles will befall you only because of your size. Jurisdiction will determine if, and to what extent, legal troubles may hound you for the shooting. I purposely live where that consideration is minimized too, not because I want to shoot anyone, but as a component of my overall self defense program to minimize all threats to my safety and liberty.

Blues
 
Follow training and do as instructed. No matter what training you have and common sense you used it can be and will be manipulated in court by the prosecution. Hope you never have to pull the trigger, but when you do make sure you have top representation.
 
You want more tools in the toolbox. Take up martial arts, carry pepper spray, carry an impact weapon like asp baton, blackjack, or sap where legal to do so. It gives you options.
 
Seems to me that no matter what size you are, what if you come up against a armed individual and you not armed then what. Dont you have the right to defend yourself no matter what genes you were given.

Sent from my GT-P3113 using USA Carry mobile app
 
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