Clarify SC CW Law SECTION 16-23-465

[cmj]

I just want to be sure that I understand the law correctly about carrying into restaurants:
________________________________________________

SECTION 16-23-465. Additional penalty for unlawfully carrying pistol or firearm onto premises of business selling alcoholic liquors, beers or wines for on premises consumption.
In addition to the penalties provided for by Sections 16 11 330 and 16 23 460 and by Article 1 of Chapter 23 of Title 16, a person convicted of carrying a pistol or firearm into a business which sells alcoholic liquor, beer, or wine for consumption on the premises is guilty of a misdemeanor and, upon conviction, must be fined not more than two thousand dollars or imprisoned not more than three years, or both.
In addition to the penalties described above, a person who violates this section while carrying a concealable weapon pursuant to Article 4, Chapter 31, Title 23, must have his concealed weapon permit revoked.
________________________________________________

For a straight up bar or nightclub this law is very clear.

BUT what about carrying into a restaurant that serves alcohol (99% of all eating establishments sell beer and/or wine)? Can anyone clarify the intent of the law? Like does the establishment have to make a % of sales off of alcohol to qualify?

Regards
CJ

 

[tattedupboy]

The wording of the law seems pretty clear to me in that it doesn't distinguish between different types of establishments that serve alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption or say that you can carry in some but not others. Simply put, whether it's Pizza Hut or a bar or nightclub, if alcoholic beverages are served for on-premises consumption, then you can't carry there, no exceptions.

 

[billwot]

Yup. Seems pretty clear to me.

"...premises of business selling alcoholic liquors, beers or wines for on premises consumption."


If your favorite restaurant serves any alcohol, leave your weapon in the car.

FYI, thats the law in NC as well. No distinction between restaurants and bars. If the business sells alcohol for consumption on the premises, its off-limits for conceled carry.

 

[cmj]

There is an interesting discussion about the topic here if you have the patience:

South Carolina People - Alcohol Carry discussion - DefensiveCarry Concealed Carry Forum

 

[kelcarry]

Hey y'all: By the time you look at all the restrictions for the SC CC, you end up with limited if not difficult scenarios for CC. Blend into this, the number of businesses that have the appropriate signage indicating a "no CCW" policy and you end up with the gun essentially in your car only. For a CCWP, you can at least have the gun in the car, fully loaded, and just concealed, and not in the glove compartment or the trunk or some other separate and closed area of the carthat you are allowed without a CCWP. I do know people who will forego long established retail sales venues who now choose to have "no CCW" in their establishments. Obviously you have to get caught when in a prohibited location in CC mode, but any purpose for CC would be questionable and illegal so that really makes little sense, even if you should be in a situation where you actually were in direct and clear danger of death.

 

[FN1910]

A careful reading of the entire section lreads to several different interpretations and we are looking for someone to volunteer to be the test case. So far no one has stepped forward. The AG has quietly spread the word not to enforce the law because he does not want to test it. Therefore we are at a standoff to see who blinks first. As long as you behave yourself you shouldn't have a problem but I don't want to be the test case. Several years ago the AGdid issue an opinion but it is too long to post but is was about 10 pages of BS trying to CYA on it saying that is was illegal but never did give a true reasoning behind it.

 

[kelcarry]

Hey cmj: Thanks for the post and reference to DefenseCarry.com. The discussion on SC CC laws is certainly intense and I will take the time to read it more carefully over my next martini. As has been said in that forum and this one, a test case with a final judicial decision is the only way to truly clarify the intent and scope of the law relative to CC in establishments that have alcoholic beverages. It would be nice to have the AG define same but when it comes to guns, politicians try very hard to stay away from the issue. Maybe the NRA would be willing to clarify the issue?

 

[kelcarry]

Hey G50AE: We are talking about SC and we are talking about politicians, who in this current climate are about as useful as you know what on a boar hog. It is amazing how you can take the english language and screw it up so that no one understands anything and that they get to impose their nanny government on the rest of us. If we have 2A, it is not up to them to decide adult responsibility assuming we are too stupid or irresponsible to figure it out for ourselves. What should have been done is to allow CC and state that NO alcohol can be drunk by an attendee anywhere with a CC. If you do, you lose your CCWP and firearm for life, get fined a nice hurtful big $$$ value and maybe even spend some time in an orange suit. Just sayin and respect other opinions.

 

[Red Hat]

I'm not going to elaborate on this subject because it's been questioned and debated for years. There is evidence in the law that can make it go either way. In my case as in a lot of others, concealed is concealed period.

 

[tcox4freedom]

I'm not going to elaborate on this subject because it's been questioned and debated for years. There is evidence in the law that can make it go either way. In my case as in a lot of others, concealed is concealed period.

My sentiments exactly!

I personally think Bars, alcohol and guns should NOT mix PERIOD! Therefore, I do NOT go into any Bars!

But, if I go into a resturaunt and "THEN" find out it serves alcohol, I don't go back out to the car to take off my weapon.
(I think this would send a signal to any BG's who may be casing the parking lot that there may be a gun in my car.)

BTW;
I regularly eat lunch at a few resturaunts that serve "beer". There are also quite a few LEO's that eat at these establishments as well. There has NOT been one single time that any LEO said anything to me; and I know several of them knew I was carrying.

I was also told by FOUR "active" LEO instructors: "Concealed means concealed". They also told me, "You should carry "Everywhere" you possibly can.

When pushed further, they stated that LEO's aren't out there trying to catch every CC'er who may be carrying into a resturaunt that serves alcohol or an establishment that has a "No Concealed Weapons" sign. (They have more "Important" things to do!)

They could NOT tell us it was ok to act illegally, but they could say; "Carry everywhere you can" AND "Concealed means concealed".

I'm NOT a lawyer and they weren't either.

I'll just say the same thing they did:
"When in doubt seek out a lawyer;"
"if in doubt leave it out;"
"take others advice with a grain of salt;"
"carry everywhere you can"
AND
"remember concealed means concealed."

 

[bbarton713]

My assumption is that most restaurants serve alcohol because it is a major source of revenue. The only exceptions will be fast food chains. Other than that restriction I've not run into many places in the Myrtle Beach area that have legal signs regarding concealed weapons. The Grand Strand Mall has the most prominent signs but they're not legal and there are many entrances into the mall from anchor stores that have no notices at all.

I'm of the mindset that concealed is concealed. There are many BGs in this area based on what I read in the paper every day and I'm not going to be their next opportunity. Also, there is a bill in SC that is currently under consideration that would make it illegal only to carry in the bar area of a restaurant.

 

[ccwnsc]

It's clear. You can't do it. I'm not sure how you could read the code section and say that it's open for interpretation.



SECTION 16-23-465. Additional penalty for unlawfully carrying pistol or firearm onto premises of business selling alcoholic liquors, beers or wines for on premises consumption.

In addition to the penalties provided for by Sections 16 11 330 and 16 23 460 and by Article 1 of Chapter 23 of Title 16, a person convicted of carrying a pistol or firearm into a business which sells alcoholic liquor, beer, or wine for consumption on the premises is guilty of a misdemeanor and, upon conviction, must be fined not more than two thousand dollars or imprisoned not more than three years, or both.
In addition to the penalties described above, a person who violates this section while carrying a concealable weapon pursuant to Article 4, Chapter 31, Title 23, must have his concealed weapon permit revoked.