theicemanmpls
Banned
He could get one of them consealed carry badges. lol and plastic ties, for the "what if"
Citizen's Arrest
- Thread starter Aresye
- Start date
mackdaddy1911a1
mackdaddy1911a1
I for one am pleased that we have instructors on this site with good sound advise.. I believe that unless your or someone elses life is in imminate danger that you should NEVER draw your fire arm or even display it for any reason unless the situation dictates it's use. Displaying your weapon is the same as Brandishing it in the eyes of the law. I know of a guy who simply showed his gun to anouther driver who was being very aggressive and guess who went to jail. He got out of it but lost his Concealed carry permit. Almost his freedom...simply for "BRANDISHING" ..not pointing it or aiming it at the guy just holding it up so he could see it. Good luck and God bless
*Gets up after rolling to put the flames out.*
I did take the time to read all of your posts, and I think I didn't clarify the situation that well. First off, I'm familiar with the laws of Florida, which state that, you can basically put yourself in the other person's shoes. Maybe I should have added him hitting her very hard, as I was trying to convey the worst case of domestic violence, without a weapon. I was trying to portray the idea that, had you not acted immediately, she would be seriously hurt. After re-reading my post, I will admit the situation seemed not to carry as much of a dire threat than when I was thinking it up in my head, and thus pulling your gun would have been a very bad choice. That I completely agree.
I also realize that most of you just see me as a wannabe cop, or vigilante. Carrying around cuffs, being quick to draw, etc. Perhaps I should have added in, "Would you use restraints if you were trained to use them?" Obviously I would not recommend someone untrained in close-quarters defense and restraining techniques to even consider the possibility. Once again, I think I failed to convey that in my post. I myself have about 4 years active duty military service. Have been trained, and continue to train in areas of CQD, restraining techniques, ROE, deadly force, and combative survivor recovery. When we get the person to the ground, we cuff them, and take them with us. Then again, in the situation I posted, my buddy isn't at my side, keeping an M4 pointed at the aggressor, while I move in to restrain him. I guess some military training, however good it may be, doesn't carry over very well to the CCW aspect of life.
Also, for the people who posted sarcastic remarks. Either offer some decent advice (without sarcasm), or perhaps ask questions for further clarification. I apologize for not being as clear as I intended in my first post, but choosing to insult a person's character and/or training, without knowing both who they are, and what their training is, shows a lack of maturity, and/or laziness on their part.
I did take the time to read all of your posts, and I think I didn't clarify the situation that well. First off, I'm familiar with the laws of Florida, which state that, you can basically put yourself in the other person's shoes. Maybe I should have added him hitting her very hard, as I was trying to convey the worst case of domestic violence, without a weapon. I was trying to portray the idea that, had you not acted immediately, she would be seriously hurt. After re-reading my post, I will admit the situation seemed not to carry as much of a dire threat than when I was thinking it up in my head, and thus pulling your gun would have been a very bad choice. That I completely agree.
I also realize that most of you just see me as a wannabe cop, or vigilante. Carrying around cuffs, being quick to draw, etc. Perhaps I should have added in, "Would you use restraints if you were trained to use them?" Obviously I would not recommend someone untrained in close-quarters defense and restraining techniques to even consider the possibility. Once again, I think I failed to convey that in my post. I myself have about 4 years active duty military service. Have been trained, and continue to train in areas of CQD, restraining techniques, ROE, deadly force, and combative survivor recovery. When we get the person to the ground, we cuff them, and take them with us. Then again, in the situation I posted, my buddy isn't at my side, keeping an M4 pointed at the aggressor, while I move in to restrain him. I guess some military training, however good it may be, doesn't carry over very well to the CCW aspect of life.
Also, for the people who posted sarcastic remarks. Either offer some decent advice (without sarcasm), or perhaps ask questions for further clarification. I apologize for not being as clear as I intended in my first post, but choosing to insult a person's character and/or training, without knowing both who they are, and what their training is, shows a lack of maturity, and/or laziness on their part.
CaptAmerica
New member
After reading through all of this I want to toss in my 2 cents worth;
I am glad to see the OP clarified a few things.
I also live in Florida and I am also ex-military so I want to put myself in this situation.
My first answer is no, I would NOT pull a gun in this situation. Even if he had slapped her around. What I would do is send the buddy to call 911 while I started yelling at the guy to back off. Trying to get him to turn his attention towards me.
One of three things will happen; he will ignore me, he will back off or he will come after me. IF he starts coming after me in a threatening manor, THEN I MAY clear leather, but only once he has threatened me. If he ignores me I still wont and cant pull a gun just because they are fighting. Not until her life is at risk.
Now as for restraints; no way! Even if I had some kind of training. That would only set me up in the eyes of the court to look like I wanted trouble. I don't want to answer why I was carrying around restraints.
If I have to pull my gun then I have all the restraint I need in my hand. He has a choice once I am deffending my self; stand down, run away or be shot. My role is to defend myself or others, not to detain any one. If he wants to run, let him run. Once LEO shows up and gets the information he wont be able to out run their radios.
I am glad to see the OP clarified a few things.
I also live in Florida and I am also ex-military so I want to put myself in this situation.
My first answer is no, I would NOT pull a gun in this situation. Even if he had slapped her around. What I would do is send the buddy to call 911 while I started yelling at the guy to back off. Trying to get him to turn his attention towards me.
One of three things will happen; he will ignore me, he will back off or he will come after me. IF he starts coming after me in a threatening manor, THEN I MAY clear leather, but only once he has threatened me. If he ignores me I still wont and cant pull a gun just because they are fighting. Not until her life is at risk.
Now as for restraints; no way! Even if I had some kind of training. That would only set me up in the eyes of the court to look like I wanted trouble. I don't want to answer why I was carrying around restraints.
If I have to pull my gun then I have all the restraint I need in my hand. He has a choice once I am deffending my self; stand down, run away or be shot. My role is to defend myself or others, not to detain any one. If he wants to run, let him run. Once LEO shows up and gets the information he wont be able to out run their radios.
inspector710
New member
You don't know enough of the situation. Why would you draw on an apparently unarmed man?? You can't and expect to keep your LTCF.
Thanks CaptAmerica for a good post. It seems that the general consensus is that even with the proper training, the addition of carrying any type of restraint, will likely do more harm than the slight advantage it may have in the securing of a dangerous individual.
Alan: FL law states that deadly force is justified to protect yourself if you are in danger of being killed or seriously hurt. It also carries on to state that you may use lethal force to protect someone else from death or serious injury, if you would use deadly force in their position. Lethal force is also justifiable in the prevention of a forcible felony in progress, such as armed robbery, rape, aggravated assault or battery, home intrusion robbery, and many more. The law also states that under these conditions if the use of force, including lethal force, is justified, then the person who acted has immunity to arrest and prosecution. That doesn't mean I'm going to be walking around, drawing my gun at every possible forcible felony I may witness. I personally hope to never have to draw my gun at someone, and I'm not trying to contradict myself here. Looking back at my first post, it definitely would have been a bad idea to draw. In my second post, I think it would depend on how far it escalates, and your attempts at deescalating the situation. If the guy eventually starts throwing some very dangerous blows, and seems to be in an uncontrollable rage, or brandishes a weapon or knife, that would certainly warrant the use of justifiable defense on her part.
IWLAFART: I am assuming your post is directed towards me, and what my so called actions would have been in this scenario I have given. While you have a good reason to believe that based on my earlier version of the situation, I think you need to look at some of the other comments, and topics as well. People having negligent discharges, for example. Was this recent movie theater shooting involving a licensed CCW holder? The types of people you need to be watchful for, are the ones who are quick to accuse, and show a lack of care and professionalism on their part. If they're careless when it comes to weapon safety, like some of the horror stories involving so called, "accidental discharges," then that same person may eventually end up like the guy in the movie theater, and "accidentally" shoot somebody from carelessness (based on the last update I read). Are you more worried about me, after I've already admitted my actions would have been rash, and learned thanks you some other people's advice, or would you be more worried about the person who can't even spell or punctuate correctly on a message board, that carries that same half-assed attitude into carrying a deadly weapon?
Learning. It's a great thing, isn't it? :biggrin:
Alan: FL law states that deadly force is justified to protect yourself if you are in danger of being killed or seriously hurt. It also carries on to state that you may use lethal force to protect someone else from death or serious injury, if you would use deadly force in their position. Lethal force is also justifiable in the prevention of a forcible felony in progress, such as armed robbery, rape, aggravated assault or battery, home intrusion robbery, and many more. The law also states that under these conditions if the use of force, including lethal force, is justified, then the person who acted has immunity to arrest and prosecution. That doesn't mean I'm going to be walking around, drawing my gun at every possible forcible felony I may witness. I personally hope to never have to draw my gun at someone, and I'm not trying to contradict myself here. Looking back at my first post, it definitely would have been a bad idea to draw. In my second post, I think it would depend on how far it escalates, and your attempts at deescalating the situation. If the guy eventually starts throwing some very dangerous blows, and seems to be in an uncontrollable rage, or brandishes a weapon or knife, that would certainly warrant the use of justifiable defense on her part.
IWLAFART: I am assuming your post is directed towards me, and what my so called actions would have been in this scenario I have given. While you have a good reason to believe that based on my earlier version of the situation, I think you need to look at some of the other comments, and topics as well. People having negligent discharges, for example. Was this recent movie theater shooting involving a licensed CCW holder? The types of people you need to be watchful for, are the ones who are quick to accuse, and show a lack of care and professionalism on their part. If they're careless when it comes to weapon safety, like some of the horror stories involving so called, "accidental discharges," then that same person may eventually end up like the guy in the movie theater, and "accidentally" shoot somebody from carelessness (based on the last update I read). Are you more worried about me, after I've already admitted my actions would have been rash, and learned thanks you some other people's advice, or would you be more worried about the person who can't even spell or punctuate correctly on a message board, that carries that same half-assed attitude into carrying a deadly weapon?
Learning. It's a great thing, isn't it? :biggrin:
CaptAmerica
New member
Aresye, I may or may not agree with everything you said, but I respect the hell out of anyone who can come back from being slammed and picked on, say he was wrong and learned a lesson, and hold his head up.
You're right, learning is a great thing.
The character of a man is not the mistakes he makes, it is what he chooses to do with himself after the mistake has been made.
You're right, learning is a great thing.
The character of a man is not the mistakes he makes, it is what he chooses to do with himself after the mistake has been made.
wjh2657
New member
The laws are way too nebulous on the issue of "citizen's arrest" to get involved. Yes , in Tennessee you theoretically can make an arrest. However the laws are very hazy as to what you actually can do in the "arrest." The court will probably go back to the continuum of force contained in the use of force laws. You can't restrain, I don't believe you can even put hands on the individual and for sure you can't use your gun, not even just to show it.
I hope you are 7 ft tall and weigh 300 pounds of solid muscle and can scare the liviing bejeebies out of the guy because otherwise there is not a whole lot you can do to hold him legally. Unless you are Arnold I would just use the phone and call the real cops.
I hope you are 7 ft tall and weigh 300 pounds of solid muscle and can scare the liviing bejeebies out of the guy because otherwise there is not a whole lot you can do to hold him legally. Unless you are Arnold I would just use the phone and call the real cops.
Thanks CaptAmerica! Your comment definitely added a motivating boost to my smoldering body from the inferno I had to walk through. You learn a lot from the military, and I'm sure you can testify to that. Everybody thinks boot camp changes a person. I disagree. It's the ongoing stress of military life that really develops a person's character. In my community, if we say something stupid, or do a procedure wrong, we don't ever hear the end of it. It's partly because we're all a-holes to eachother, but also because in our line of work, it's the smallest details and mistakes that can kill us in a split-second. Trying to fight your reasoning against the senior guys (who've likely made the same mistake in the past), is a losing battle. Occasionally you may have a sound argument, but for the most part, what they put out and I learn from, may save my life in the future...again.
Being ex-military, I'm sure you know exactly what I mean. Once again, thanks!
Being ex-military, I'm sure you know exactly what I mean. Once again, thanks!
Indeed, the laws are often very hazy. Some states have Good Samaritan laws to help protect those trying to help others. Some states have citizen arrest laws. Some states have almost nothing on the books with regards to detaining another citizen.
I don't feel like double checking at the moment, but in Washington state I believe there is a statute on the books that authorizes citizens to use deadly force in the detainment of someone who has committed a felony. Furthermore, if I remember rightly, this is a more liberal grant of force than the police are given.
We shall see how this plays out since there was a recent case of someone who tracked down a burglar and shot him dead after telling them to stop. There are way more details than I can get to in this post, but the rest of it is somewhere on this forum.
theicemanmpls
Banned
I have worked in a gun store, and helped the public sight in their deer rifles. While most people should be allowed access to firearms, there are a few individuals who's access to guns, and sharp implements should be restricted. Some of the coments on this and other postings only reinforces my position.
Did the man go after the robber after they had already left? I'm pretty sure in most states, even if lethal force is justified to prevent a forcible felony in progress, it is unlawful to pursue the BG if the threat has passed, and the crime already made.
If a BG breaks into my house, or my room, and they are a threat to me, they're getting shot. However, if I come out of my room because of some noise, see a BG run off with my stuff in his hands, I'm not going to chase him down. Sure it's my stuff, and that sucks, but I've got insurance to pay for it.
That is the part that isn't clear. It seems that the burglar left, then came back and was running away after being confronted. The home owner says he fired a warning shot over the guy's head. It appears that bullet drop caused the round to strike the burglar and it killed him.
By the letter of the law, it seems like his action was legal, regardless of intention. However, I am going to guess this home owner will go to jail. It will all come down to the jury on this one.
CaptAmerica
New member
God I love living in Florida.
I have every right to not only shoot a BG during the crime, but I can shoot his sorry ass while he is running away. In Florida they look at it this way; the BG wouldn't be shot at if he hadn't been doing the crime. The law is meant to make BG's think twice about doing the crime, and to protect the victim from stupid law suits.
I have every right to not only shoot a BG during the crime, but I can shoot his sorry ass while he is running away. In Florida they look at it this way; the BG wouldn't be shot at if he hadn't been doing the crime. The law is meant to make BG's think twice about doing the crime, and to protect the victim from stupid law suits.
Unfettered Might
Μολών λαβ&
Then you should try Kentucky;
No license needed to OC, in Florida you do.
No three day waiting period for purchase, if you pass the NICS, your good to go. Although that's up to the county.
If someone is caught carrying a concealed weapon without a permit, it's a felony of the third degree in your state, which means you can never own a gun again. It's a class A Misdemeanor in Kentucky, so you'll pay for the mistake but you'll retain your 2A right.
It gets worse....
Also, if you shoot ANYONE in the back unless they are raping, kidnapping or getting ready to kill someone, your going to prison. You can forget about that "deadly force to prevent a forcible felony" bit. If they are running away, your not preventing the felony anymore and you will go to prison.
Might want to check your statues again and then come on up to Kentucky and really enjoy your 2A.
Hell I think the only state better then Kentucky is Vermont, they even let you conceal carry WITHOUT a license. Now that is freedom.
Alaska is right up there with Vermount. I'm pretty keen on their firearms laws as well.
gf
harleybass47
New member
I was working security at a club in the 70's and a guy started hitting his wife. I walked over and asked them to leave and he takes a swing at me. I restrain him and the next thing I know she has a handful of my hair. He starts to get up and I kick him in the head and he goes down. I finally get her loose and calmed down and throw both of them out. So it shows you if you can just call the LEO you're better off.
