CCW with no permit


hunt4car

New member
Before you throw your hands up just simply reading the title please do take into account:
I am looking to create a space conducive to discussion of this subject; it is a topic that is difficult to look at in the first place.
*You are of course entitled to your opinion and I expect a range of strong opinions, I simply ask that responses are structured with progression of this thread in mind.

I purchased (through a private party) a handgun at the age of 18. I am now almost 21 and going to get my CCW (only of course).

That being said, I have spent years being very frustrated. Knowing that the countless hours I took to educate myself as a gun owner amounted to me being more than qualified to carry my gun. Furthermore seeing a greater tie to age than knowledge in getting a CCW left me perplexed; sure many of my friends would not make great candidates to have a CCW, but neither should a good few of their parents that do!

I managed the waiting game to get my CCW by doing a handful of things. Adopting methods to carry I could practice realistically given my circumstances. Putting a safe under my car seat, carrying in a backpack, most importantly knowing my rights and knowing how to properly assert them.

Through my journey I met many others that did/are doing the same and discussed the topic with many. Here today I would like to bring the topic to a wider audience.


1. How do you feel about what I just shared

2. How could I have/ would you have approached everything (differently or not)

3. Do you feel like something should change to accommodate those like me, or not?



Please share and relevant thoughts!

Thank you.
 

newair

New member
Before you throw your hands up just simply reading the title please do take into account:
I am looking to create a space conducive to discussion of this subject; it is a topic that is difficult to look at in the first place.
*You are of course entitled to your opinion and I expect a range of strong opinions, I simply ask that responses are structured with progression of this thread in mind.

I purchased (through a private party) a handgun at the age of 18. I am now almost 21 and going to get my CCW (only of course).

That being said, I have spent years being very frustrated. Knowing that the countless hours I took to educate myself as a gun owner amounted to me being more than qualified to carry my gun. Furthermore seeing a greater tie to age than knowledge in getting a CCW left me perplexed; sure many of my friends would not make great candidates to have a CCW, but neither should a good few of their parents that do!

I managed the waiting game to get my CCW by doing a handful of things. Adopting methods to carry I could practice realistically given my circumstances. Putting a safe under my car seat, carrying in a backpack, most importantly knowing my rights and knowing how to properly assert them.

Through my journey I met many others that did/are doing the same and discussed the topic with many. Here today I would like to bring the topic to a wider audience.


1. How do you feel about what I just shared

2. How could I have/ would you have approached everything (differently or not)

3. Do you feel like something should change to accommodate those like me, or not?



Please share and relevant thoughts!

Thank you.


Interesting, and probably would apply to far more people than would admit it. And that is the problem. In this day and age of electronic snopping and trails, who in their right mind would come to a site and admit that they are or have been commiting a crime. Think that will be your challange.
 

wolf_fire

New member
Before you throw your hands up just simply reading the title please do take into account:
I am looking to create a space conducive to discussion of this subject; it is a topic that is difficult to look at in the first place.
*You are of course entitled to your opinion and I expect a range of strong opinions, I simply ask that responses are structured with progression of this thread in mind.

I purchased (through a private party) a handgun at the age of 18. I am now almost 21 and going to get my CCW (only of course).

That being said, I have spent years being very frustrated. Knowing that the countless hours I took to educate myself as a gun owner amounted to me being more than qualified to carry my gun. Furthermore seeing a greater tie to age than knowledge in getting a CCW left me perplexed; sure many of my friends would not make great candidates to have a CCW, but neither should a good few of their parents that do!

I managed the waiting game to get my CCW by doing a handful of things. Adopting methods to carry I could practice realistically given my circumstances. Putting a safe under my car seat, carrying in a backpack, most importantly knowing my rights and knowing how to properly assert them.

Through my journey I met many others that did/are doing the same and discussed the topic with many. Here today I would like to bring the topic to a wider audience.


1. How do you feel about what I just shared

2. How could I have/ would you have approached everything (differently or not)

3. Do you feel like something should change to accommodate those like me, or not?



Please share and relevant thoughts!

Thank you.

There is only one thing that should change; all permit restrictions should be abolished so those in this country wishing to exercise an enumerated right may do so.

Anything one does prior to that is on them and they will find themselves alone if they ever get caught. The other school of thought though is that it is better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.
 

wolf_fire

New member
Interesting, and probably would apply to far more people than would admit it. And that is the problem. In this day and age of electronic snopping and trails, who in their right mind would come to a site and admit that they are or have been commiting a crime. Think that will be your challange.

Add to that, if the OP does get caught, you can be damned sure the DA will have this thread as evidence that he willfully violated the current restrictions to his rights.
 

NewlyEnthused

New member
No one here (at least as far as I can tell) would say that the current laws and regulations are the best when it comes to CWP. But, I am curious how you want to change it to make it better.
If you allow the government to change it, you can bet your last round it will be far more stricter.
To award a CWP based on training and knowledge and responsibility, etc, would require a complete genetic workup to see if there is an aggressive or anger issues in your genetic makeup.
To award a CWP based on knowledge, then those 8 year olds that grew up with a gun would pass with flying colors, even though they may not have reached a maturity level to be responsible.
To award a CWP based on intent and life style, would require a truth serum interrogation to get to every dark corner of your mind to determine your real reason.
To do all this, would cost well over $10K (from experience I know genetic workup is very expensive), and take months for the results.
This is a ridiculous. Just the fact that you getting a gun at 18 which you know is illegal, and that you are too impatient to wait until you are 21 proves that you would have failed the very tests that you need to get your CWP early.

Best advice, lock the gun up, get some formal training, follow this forum and learn from those who really do know what carrying a gun requires.

But then, this is just my 2 cents
 

defcon4

Member
(This is a ridiculous. Just the fact that you getting a gun at 18 which you know is illegal, and that you are too impatient to wait until you are 21 proves that you would have failed the very tests that you need to get your CWP early.) ??



Are you sure about that statement. In many states it is legal for 18 year old individuals to own, possess, or carry handguns. Alabama, where I live, is one of them. My understanding of the law is that a FFL cannot sell a handgun to anybody under the age of 21 however I do not believe that it is illegal to sell or buy or sell a handgun in a private sale to somebody 21 years of age. Please correct me if I am wrong.
 

NewlyEnthused

New member
Are you sure about that statement. In many states it is legal for 18 year old individuals to own, possess, or carry handguns. Alabama, where I live, is one of them. My understanding of the law is that a FFL cannot sell a handgun to anybody under the age of 21 however I do not believe that it is illegal to sell or buy or sell a handgun in a private sale to somebody 21 years of age. Please correct me if I am wrong.

You are probably right. I have not researched every state. I should have said in my state or ome/most. Thanks for keeping me on my toes.
 

Eidolon

Alter Kocker
Add to that, if the OP does get caught, you can be damned sure the DA will have this thread as evidence that he willfully violated the current restrictions to his rights.

I didn’t get that he committed a crime out of his post, what I read was that he was working out ways to carry that would work for him. He never said that he was carrying a gun.

I do think it's a weird first post though
 

telpinaro

New member
Would I have approached things differently? Yeah, a bit... For starters, like others, definitely wouldn't have posted this online! And the stakes would have been higher for me; at that age I was in the military and mostly stationed in DC.

Having a firearm in the car may not be illegal without a permit, depending on where you are. Carrying in a backpack, on the other hand...

I probably would have stuck with a selection of non-lethal things until I turned 21. Should things be changed? Of course. All you have to do is look at the military to realize that 18-year-old kids can safely and competently handle all sorts of dangerous things. Heck, we let them drive at 15-16.
 

BluesStringer

Les Brers
Without knowing which state the OP is from, no one can definitively answer the question(s), but as others have alluded to, possession of a handgun is not a crime for 18 to 20 year olds generally-speaking. And open carry (OC) runs the gamut from wide open legal, to outlawed entirely, but in most instances where it's outlawed entirely (or even highly restricted), it is so for everybody, not just 18 to 20 year olds.

Federal law on the subject only mentions "juvenile." As it says in (5), that means "less than" 18. To wit:

§ 922. Unlawful acts
(x)
(1) It shall be unlawful for a person to sell, deliver, or otherwise transfer to a person who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe is a juvenile—
(A) a handgun; or
(B) ammunition that is suitable for use only in a handgun.
(2) It shall be unlawful for any person who is a juvenile to knowingly possess
(A) a handgun; or
(B) ammunition that is suitable for use only in a handgun.

(3) This subsection does not apply to—
(A) a temporary transfer of a handgun or ammunition to a juvenile or to the possession or use of a handgun or ammunition by a juvenile if the handgun and ammunition are possessed and used by the juvenile—
(i) in the course of employment, in the course of ranching or farming related to activities at the residence of the juvenile (or on property used for ranching or farming at which the juvenile, with the permission of the property owner or lessee, is performing activities related to the operation of the farm or ranch), target practice, hunting, or a course of instruction in the safe and lawful use of a handgun;

(5) For purposes of this subsection, the term “juvenile” means a person who is less than 18 years of age.

My suggestion would be for the OP to research the OC laws where he lives. Chances are if it's legal for anyone to OC, it's legal for a 20 year old to. While you may have to be better-versed in the law than the cops that will confront you and tell you you're doing something illegal, that's a damn sight better'n them finding a handgun secreted away in a backpack or somewhere else where you're not legally authorized to have it without a permission slip.

Then again, if you're already carrying concealed illegally, I guess a felony conviction wouldn't dissuade you from carrying after you pay your fines or serve your time (or both) either. While I can respect the act of flouting unconstitutional, imprudent, and/or oppressive laws, it can get pretty expensive and impinge on your ability to remain out of jail so you can fight such laws more effectively.

Blues
 

wolf_fire

New member
I didn’t get that he committed a crime out of his post, what I read was that he was working out ways to carry that would work for him. He never said that he was carrying a gun.

I do think it's a weird first post though


I purchased (through a private party) a handgun at the age of 18. <---- That part unless his particular state (there are not many of them) states that he may purchase from a private party a handgun at age 18. It would make for a better conversation if we knew the OP's state. Also, depending on the laws of his particular state (again unknown) how he may be able to carry ... he mentioned safe in his car and a few other methods.


 

hunt4car

New member
Interesting...

No one here (at least as far as I can tell) would say that the current laws and regulations are the best when it comes to CWP. But, I am curious how you want to change it to make it better.
If you allow the government to change it, you can bet your last round it will be far more stricter.
To award a CWP based on training and knowledge and responsibility, etc, would require a complete genetic workup to see if there is an aggressive or anger issues in your genetic makeup.
To award a CWP based on knowledge, then those 8 year olds that grew up with a gun would pass with flying colors, even though they may not have reached a maturity level to be responsible.
To award a CWP based on intent and life style, would require a truth serum interrogation to get to every dark corner of your mind to determine your real reason.
To do all this, would cost well over $10K (from experience I know genetic workup is very expensive), and take months for the results.
This is a ridiculous. Just the fact that you getting a gun at 18 which you know is illegal, and that you are too impatient to wait until you are 21 proves that you would have failed the very tests that you need to get your CWP early.

Best advice, lock the gun up, get some formal training, follow this forum and learn from those who really do know what carrying a gun requires.

But then, this is just my 2 cents

Just working my way through the responses now...

I really like what you had to say here, you touched on some interesting points. I do feel like to took a "slippery slope" approach to each point though. Regardless each point is conceptually sound. I feel there are several ascertainable methods to address each issue.

To address the last three lines:
1. Federal law restricts purchase of a handgun through a dealer if your under 21, this is why I noted private party purchase.
2. I have and will always continue to invest in training and attaining more knowledge about carrying.

Thanks everyone for your input so far!
 

kelcarry

New member
Good for you. Conceal carry without the permit. When or if you ever have that "imminent threat" confrontation and end up seriously injuring or killing the BG, I hope you are prepared for the legal and civil complications that will follow. The old adage about "I am concealed so no one has to know regardless of permit", works when nothing happens. If that confrontation occurs, you probably go to prison and certainly lose all your life savings etal in a civil case.
 

Axeanda45

Banned
Good for you. Conceal carry without the permit. When or if you ever have that "imminent threat" confrontation and end up seriously injuring or killing the BG, I hope you are prepared for the legal and civil complications that will follow. The old adage about "I am concealed so no one has to know regardless of permit", works when nothing happens. If that confrontation occurs, you probably go to prison and certainly lose all your life savings etal in a civil case.
Only if you wimp out and allow your Constitutional rights to be infringed on by someone who is breaking their oath as they infringe on them.... ANY attempt at infringing on my 2nd Amendment rights comes with the real, proven danger of losing everything I have ever worked for (AND my life itself) just because of a law-breaking govt..... I take that as a life threatening confrontation and WILL defend myself as if my life depends on it, because my life DOES depend on it....
 

telpinaro

New member
Only if you wimp out and allow your Constitutional rights to be infringed on by someone who is breaking their oath as they infringe on them.... ANY attempt at infringing on my 2nd Amendment rights comes with the real, proven danger of losing everything I have ever worked for (AND my life itself) just because of a law-breaking govt..... I take that as a life threatening confrontation and WILL defend myself as if my life depends on it, because my life DOES depend on it....

Unfortunately, just because it is a right does not make it legal. It ought to, and I very much hope it changes. I'll help if I can.

This does mean that if you carry in a way deemed illegal, and successfully defend yourself, you'll likely go to jail. If you don't, it'll be after a long and expensive legal battle. This means it is a choice between dead and destitute. While the answer might be obvious to some, for others that's a tough choice. If you have a family that depends on you, especially with young kids, bankruptcy or prison is not going to turn out well.

Hence, I choose the legal option of getting the permission slip. I may not agree with having that hoop to jump through, but I can't afford the risk of breaking the law. Others might be willing to make the sacrifice to stand up for their rights, but my kid shouldn't have to. I'll find legal ways to do it.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using USA Carry mobile app
 
E

ezkl2230

Guest
This is a ridiculous. Just the fact that you getting a gun at 18 which you know is illegal, and that you are too impatient to wait until you are 21 proves that you would have failed the very tests that you need to get your CWP early.

The thing about getting a handgun at age 18 depends on the state in which one resides. In Michigan, with a pistol purchase permit an 18 year old may purchase a handgun from a private party, but must be 21 in order to purchase one from an FFL. The OP bought his handgun from a private party, which, in Michigan, is legal. He can openly carry that handgun without a CPL, but must be 21 in order to get the CPL.

Carrying concealed without a CPL means that you are ready to accept the consequences if you are ever caught.

Not defending Michigan's laws, always working to change them, but that's the way it is at this time here.
 

Axeanda45

Banned
Unfortunately, just because it is a right does not make it legal. It ought to, and I very much hope it changes. I'll help if I can.

This does mean that if you carry in a way deemed illegal, and successfully defend yourself, you'll likely go to jail. If you don't, it'll be after a long and expensive legal battle. This means it is a choice between dead and destitute. While the answer might be obvious to some, for others that's a tough choice. If you have a family that depends on you, especially with young kids, bankruptcy or prison is not going to turn out well.

Hence, I choose the legal option of getting the permission slip. I may not agree with having that hoop to jump through, but I can't afford the risk of breaking the law. Others might be willing to make the sacrifice to stand up for their rights, but my kid shouldn't have to. I'll find legal ways to do it.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using USA Carry mobile app


Actually, ANY "law" that goes against what the constitution and BOR says is an INVALID "law" and not "legal" at all.... Enforced by out of control govt? absolutely, but NOT legal...


Also, all of your ASSUMPTIONS quoted above have the false premise that I will allow myself to be arrested for that which shall not be infringed......

I do, however understand exactly what you are saying, and if that is the road you wish to take, that is entirely up to you, yet then the infringers will have won yet another battle without a fight....
 

Members online

Forum statistics

Threads
49,437
Messages
623,667
Members
74,275
Latest member
zxclord123
Top