CCW Instructors - Range Affiliation, Liability Insurance and Safety Issues

[DisabledVeteran]

I attended my CCW class earlier this year, and was both surprised and disappointed...the class was poorly taught, with the instructor spending as much (or more time) explaining how the CCW license had gotten him out of tickets or explaining his personal carry options (which were NOT safe) as he did the requirements for the class.

This event prompted me to pursue my CCW Instructor's license - nothing against most CCW instructors (I'm sure you're professional and trained), but both the people who desire their CCW and the people around them deserve better than the training that was provided before carrying a weapon.

Here are a few questions:
- Are you affiliated with a local range, or do you have your own range/target area? Are local ranges willing to work with you on costs?
- Do you carry liability insurance, and - if so - are the rates reasonable (and what agency do you use - you can PM me if desired)?
- Not sure about other states, but Oklahoma law limits the fees that can be charged for CCW training. Do you have those issues, and how do you address range fees, etc., assuming you don't have your own range facilities?
- What's the worst I D 10 T issue you've encountered? My wife fears for my personal safety. :wink:

Thanks in advance for your answers...

 

[fnsmoak]

Great questions:
1. Announce that your CCW/CWP/CHL class is NOT for beginners. Then stick to it. This limits the time wasted on BEGINNERS that should be in a BEGINNING SHOOTERS CLASS.
2. Announce that if you have to assist someone in the range due to them having a beginning shooter problem, you charge $xx/hr; 2 hr minimum. You have to be serious and list the normal charge as your regular private lessons.
3. Some ranges will work with you. Others choose to see you as competition, regardless of how many NEW Clients you will be introducing to their range. One range that I had used EXCLUSIVELY for approx 6 years suddenly told me I would have to pay a $25/student charge any time I brought any group of CWP students. They would rather have you out of the business than have another ambassador for Firearms Sports running about bringing them new customers at a rate of well over 100 per year.
4. Compare specialty insurance vs a BOND. Sort of the same, but really NOT.
5. Talk to the range owners, not just the managers. It would help if the range already knows you because you're on the premises so frequently.
6. The ID-TEN-T most prolific is the folks that you know by their bluster that they are A BEGINNER. The ones you carry the bandages for. The one that you know before they fire the 1st rnd will cross thumbs over the back strap of the .40 when he should be shooting a .22 BECAUSE HE IS A BEGINNER.

GUNSMOAK.com

 

[BulletTrainingLtd]

Yes, actually three ranges because of schedule conflicts. Unfortunately, an unscrupulous instructor put a really bad taste in the mouth of several ranges in my area so they will only use their facilities with their employed instructors.
I carry liability insurance and IMHO you would be a fool not to. Around $300 to $500 per year for a good policy. Just search on line, there are plenty.
No limits here for fees for a course. Most in this area take in consideration their range fees and any other "overhead" they may have and set the fee accordingly. Most in this area are about $120 for the 12 hour class. I have very little going out so I charge significantly less but it doesn't have students beating each other up to get into a class. And, after three years of doing concealed carry classes, I have not had an ID 10 T problem at all. My paperwork states and I re-enforce up front that I will not tolerate an acts of an unsafe nature and will remove you from class without a refund. Hope it helps.

 

[grizzerr]

-I teach in multiple states (CCW only in 1 state) and have good affiliations with a range in each state. I pay from $10-20.00 dollars a day for range fees.
-Liability insurance is an absolute necessity. Some ranges won't even allow you to conduct classes if you don't have them listed as an "also insured". I use Joseph Chiarello & CO.
-No limits on CCW enrollment price, but I charge the average for where I'm teaching. As to range fees that's just overhead like targets, backers, etc and what ever else you use to conduct a class. You won't get rich teaching CCW classes but if you don't treat it like a business you'll end up losing money.
-Just keep in mind that firearms training is a dangerous business. Stress the safety points, especially finger off the trigger and muzzle control throughout the class both in classroom and on the range. Don't allow any live ammo in the classroom and that means you also. Keep your instructor-student ratio at a manageable level. Have your first aid and trauma kits handy (know how to use them) and emergency protocols in place.
I've been muzzle swept several times on the range but have had no NDs in my classes...yet. I only give one safety warning and if student violates a second time they're removed from the line. They're given some one on on time and if that doesn't work they're asked to leave.

 

[DisabledVeteran]

Thanks for the info

Thanks for the info, everyone. It's been helpful, and insightful!

I attended my CCW class earlier this year, and was both surprised and disappointed...the class was poorly taught, with the instructor spending as much (or more time) explaining how the CCW license had gotten him out of tickets or explaining his personal carry options (which were NOT safe) as he did the requirements for the class.
Thanks in advance for your answers...

 

[DRNurse1]

+1 to the above. Additionally. consider a second instructor to teach a classroom/ non-functioning gun safety course in conjunction with your class and as a second range officer during the shooting portion. I have not encountered any issues however I subscribe to the Boy Scout motto "Be Prepared" for any little thing and I teach a fair portion of female clients. It is nice to have a second set of eyes on the range. I use the buddy method when teaching when I can.

 

[BC1]

Personal safety is paramount. As an instructor you'll find some students don't have dexterity with a gun. For live-fire training I recommend a vest.

 

[DisabledVeteran]

As an update - I've completed my NRA Instructors Training, am nearing receipt of my SDA (Oklahoma CCW) instructor's license, and I'm working part-time at a local gun range. Though I'm not allowed to teach (yet) at the gun range, it gives me a lot of insight into the types of people I will be running into, more experience in the industry, and practical experience with other instructors and a high-quality SDA course. Thanks again for everyone's responses to the original post.

 

[telpinaro]

1. Announce that your CCW/CWP/CHL class is NOT for beginners. Then stick to it. This limits the time wasted on BEGINNERS that should be in a BEGINNING SHOOTERS CLASS.

Interesting. I suppose in CO it might be a bit different, as no shooting is required to obtain a CHP. However, EVERYONE in my CCW class (which did include range time, always fun!) was a beginner, including me. I could shoot, of course, since I'm a veteran, but there you don't get an option as to what gun to use, how to carry, or (Navy!) even how to clean it. So for me, it was just what I needed. I'd just purchased my first gun, so I could only afford one class.

What would you suggest for someone new who wants CCW, but can't afford both a beginning shooting class and a CCW class? I definitely see the benefit to splitting them up (beginners aren't over their heads, more experienced don't get bored), but for some people it might be good to combine the two. Or offer a CCW class for beginners, maybe?


And... just to throw it out there... my first gun was a .357 magnum. No need to start with .22 for everyone :wink: All depends on the person.



I swear, one of these days I'm going to create an ID-10-Tango form, just so I can hand it to people who ask for it. It will be a requisition for the "Here's your sign" thing.

 

[3gunshooter]

I can say after moving to Oklahoma from Indiana (where training is not required to get your license) and teaching a couple SDA classes I would much rather teach people that volunteer for training than those that have to.

 

[ScottMac]

I'm still freelancing to small groups in Illinois.

I talked to a local "shooting" lawyer for advice on liability, and he may be available to talk to the classes on a per-hour basis about the legal scene in Illinois (Chicago, Cook County mostly).

I have an "Umbrella Policy" along with my home and car insurance for at least some of the personal liability.
The NRA has a selection of insurance policies for CCW, gun owners-in-general, and instructors (I haven't signed up yet, but probably will).

As previously mentioned, setting the level of the course up front, both to set an expectation of what will be taught, and the competence level of the students when they walk in the door, is always a good thing.

If you know the range's limitation (i.e., no magnetic ammo), then you should post it prominently or buy the class ammo so it complies. That would limit the type of handguns that the student can use for training.

IMO, the student should train with the type of gun they will likely be carrying, in the caliber they will likely be using.

FWIW