CCW for Non-US Resident.

[FlaPara]

Alright so my first post to the forums will be a deucy

I am marrying my partner of 2 years and shes moved to the US permanently to be with me due to my job being here at the moment. She isnt too thrilled about American gun culture or me owning firearms for home / personal defense but shes not close minded to it either. I am sure that with a bit of education on the subject she'd be more open to our world as responsible firearm owners and what other best way to do so other than us attending a CCW class. However, how would the laws affect her gettin the permit after she graduates the course even though we havent completed the immigration process yet that would grant her residency. I am just wondering how it would play out.

Btw, I hold a North Carolina concealed permit and that is where we currently reside.

 

[NavyLCDR]

However, how would the laws affect her gettin the permit after she graduates the course even though we havent completed the immigration process yet that would grant her residency. I am just wondering how it would play out.

Btw, I hold a North Carolina concealed permit and that is where we currently reside.

North Carolina law:
G.S. 14-415.12

§ 14-415.12. Criteria to qualify for the issuance of a permit.

(a) The sheriff shall issue a permit to an applicant if the applicant qualifies under the following criteria:

(1) The applicant is a citizen of the United States and has been a resident of the State 30 days or longer immediately preceding the filing of the application.

 

[ArmyCW4]

CCP no go for her until becoming a USA citizen, however and since you are in NC, open carry is an option until then.

 

[sdprof]

Could she get a permit from, say VA? It looks like NC recognizes all permits, and I don't see anything that requires NC resident to have NC permit.

 

[ArmyCW4]

The problem I see with such proposal is that althought an out of state permit maybe valid in NC, and since she'll be living as resident in NC, the out of state permit may be voided due to her NC residence status. This by no means is a fact, just my thought.

 

[BC1]

One problem is that the lhe law varies by state. For example NC requires one be a citizen but NYS doesn't. Permits are granted to resident aliens. This process should be uniform throughout the country.

 

[sdprof]

Contact a legislator to get it fixed, or sue the state. It's happened in other states. And some have just fixed the problems on their own.

Constitutional protections extend to anyone lawfully in the country.

 

[ArmyCW4]

One problem is that the lhe law varies by state. For example NC requires one be a citizen but NYS doesn't. Permits are granted to resident aliens. This process should be uniform throughout the country.

The entire gun laws should be uniformed in the country as a whole, it'll make it easier to understand and follow.

 

[JimTh]

NC does not give non citizens permission to carry a concealed weapon, so it does not matter how many out of state ccw permits she may have, what rules is NC law. Look at it this way...NC issues a drivers license. This is NC's way of giving someone permission to drive on highways in NC and it is recognized across state lines. Now if NC revokes said permission to drive, a Virginia DL does not provide permission for that person to drive on NC roadways. The DL may be a valid DL in Virginia but NC has revoked the permission to drive in NC. Drive all you want along the Virginia NC border...just don't cross from Virginia into NC. If you do you would be violating NC law.

 

[NavyLCDR]

NC does not give non citizens permission to carry a concealed weapon, so it does not matter how many out of state ccw permits she may have, what rules is NC law.

Pure hogwash. NC law does not make it illegal for a non-citizen to conceal a firearm. NC law makes it illegal to conceal a firearm without a recognized permit and NC law recognizes all valid out of state permits as valid in NC. According to your erroneous theory my Washington CPL would not be valid in NC because in the same list of requirements for the NC permit is:

§ 14-415.12. Criteria to qualify for the issuance of a permit.

(a) The sheriff shall issue a permit to an applicant if the applicant qualifies under the following criteria:
(1) The applicant is a citizen of the United States and has been a resident of the State 30 days or longer immediately preceding the filing of the application.
(2) The applicant is 21 years of age or older.
(3) The applicant does not suffer from a physical or mental infirmity that prevents the safe handling of a handgun.
(4) The applicant has successfully completed an approved firearms safety and training course which involves the actual firing of handguns and instruction in the laws of this State governing the carrying of a concealed handgun and the use of deadly force.

My Washington CPL requires no training whatsoever to obtain, let alone training in the laws of NC. In fact no other states' permit would require training in the laws of NC. A non-citizen holding a valid permit from another state can conceal carry in NC, they just can't meet the requirement in (1) of the statute above to obtain a NC permit, just like nobody with an out of state permit will meet the training requirements of (4).

 

[ArmyCW4]

The caveat to that is that at the minute she marries a NC legal resident (which seem to be the case?), she'll automatically and immediately becomes a NC legal resident herself, thus the controversial issue of having an out of state issued permit, instead of a NC CCP.

 

[JimTh]

Pure hogwash. NC law does not make it illegal for a non-citizen to conceal a firearm. NC law makes it illegal to conceal a firearm without a recognized permit and NC law recognizes all valid out of state permits as valid in NC. According to your erroneous theory my Washington CPL would not be valid in NC because in the same list of requirements for the NC permit is:



My Washington CPL requires no training whatsoever to obtain, let alone training in the laws of NC. In fact no other states' permit would require training in the laws of NC. A non-citizen holding a valid permit from another state can conceal carry in NC, they just can't meet the requirement in (1) of the statute above to obtain a NC permit, just like nobody with an out of state permit will meet the training requirements of (4).

Talk about pure hogwash...LISTEN TO THIS SQUIDDLY...LISTEN...LISTEN..LISTEN...THIS IS YOUR CAPTAIN SPEAKING...PULL THE SWAB OUT OF YOUR AS S AND LISTEN HERE REAL REAL GOOD...NORTH CAROLINA IF YOU WANT A CCW YOU MUST BE A CITIZEN OF THE UNITED STATES OKAY SQUIDLY...IS THIS BECOMING CLEAR SQUIDLY...CRYSTAL CLEAR SQUIDLY. A VIRGINIA PERMIT WILL NOT ALLOW HER TO CARRY CONCEALED IN NORTH CAROLINA SQUIDLY IF NORTH CAROLINA WOULD ALLOW HER TO CARRY CONCEALED WHY DON'T THEY JUST ISSUE HER A PERMIT FROM NORTH CAROLINA SQUIDLY...NOW GO WASH YOUR MOUTH OUT WITH THAT GOD DAMNED HOGWASH. NOW IF YOU WANT TO CAUSE NON US CITIZENS SOME SERIOUS TROUBLE TELL HER TO GET AN OUT OF STATE CARRY PERMIT AND JUST CARRY AWAY. NOW WITH RESPECT TO YOU AS YOU HAVE MADE IT ABUNDANTLY CLEAR THAT YOU ARE A RETIRED SQUIDLY...THAT WOULD NORMALLY IMPLY THAT YOU ARE A US CITIZEN...I ASK IS THAT HOGWASH...THEREFORE YOUR DUMBASS LITTLE WASHINGTON PERMIT WOULD BE RECOGNIZED AND YOU COULD CARRY IN NC. DOES THIS COMPORT WITH YOUR OWN VERSION OF HOGWASH.

Now then that I have gotten that off my chest I strongly recommend the OP contact a good lawyer before he listens to squidly. I have said this in other posts. A permit to carry a concealed weapon is just that. The operative word is "permit"...squidly that is a shortened version of the word "permission". Do you know what the word "permission" implies...right..that's right...it implies permission. The paper is what tells LEO that you have been given permission. Right squidly. Now then if the state does not give you that piece of paper because you are not a US citizen...okay one time squidly...what does that mean...come on..you can guess if you have too....hey that is right...that means they are not giving you permission to carry concealed because you are not a US Citizen. Okay squidly...now think back when you were just a tyke squidly...say 6 years old and you asked a parent if you could do something and they said no NO NO NO. So you went next door and asked Ms. Robinson if you could do it...and she says yes. So you go back home and do it because Ms. Robinson said you could. Is it crystal clear yet? One more test for you squidly...Virginia allows me if I want to carry as many AR's and AK's as I can carry all with loaded 30 round magazines and if I want to strap on leg holsters and belt holsters with all my glocks on board with 30 round magazines I have the right...not just the permission...but the absolute right to carry them anywhere in public (schools excepted) that I want to. That means any local government building and even into the state legislature building if I want. Certainly not into state courts, prisons, or jails...but just about everywhere else within the Commonwealth of Virginia. Now then...I am only going to ask this once...because Virginia gives me permission to do this can I take that permission across state lines into Maryland...you may google the code if you like. Can I carry them into New Jersey, Delaware, New York, Massachusetts, Rhode Island, Illinois, or California....I am sure you will let me know if I skipped a state. Now just answer the question. You may google, copy and paste, until the pigs fly. Don't forget to bold it either.

 

[NavyLCDR]

The caveat to that is that at the minute she marries a NC legal resident (which seem to be the case?), she'll automatically and immediately becomes a NC legal resident herself, thus the controversial issue of having an out of state issued permit, instead of a NC CCP.

Thank you for a reasonable reply (unlike some others in this thread). There is no North Carolina law that makes an out of state permit become invalid when the holder becomes a NC resident. North Carolina law is very simply worded and inarguable:

GS_14-415.24

§ 14-415.24. Reciprocity; out-of-state handgun permits.

(a) A valid concealed handgun permit or license issued by another state is valid in North Carolina.

There are no if's, and's or but's in the statute, it's a plainly worded one sentence statement of fact with no caveats associated with it. As long as the out-of-state permit is valid for a resident of North Carolina in the state that issued it, it is valid in NC for the NC resident as well. An example of a statute that makes an out-of-state permit invalid for residents is Washington's:

RCW 9.41.073: Concealed pistol license ? Reciprocity.

RCW 9.41.073
Concealed pistol license — Reciprocity.

(1)(a) A person licensed to carry a pistol in a state the laws of which recognize and give effect in that state to a concealed pistol license issued under the laws of the state of Washington is authorized to carry a concealed pistol in this state if:

(i) The licensing state does not issue concealed pistol licenses to persons under twenty-one years of age; and

(ii) The licensing state requires mandatory fingerprint-based background checks of criminal and mental health history for all persons who apply for a concealed pistol license.

(b) This section applies to a license holder from another state only while the license holder is not a resident of this state. A license holder from another state must carry the handgun in compliance with the laws of this state.

There is no such caveat expressed in NC law.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Talk about pure hogwash...LISTEN TO THIS SQUIDDLY...LISTEN...LISTEN..LISTEN...THIS IS YOUR CAPTAIN SPEAKING...PULL THE SWAB OUT OF YOUR AS S AND LISTEN HERE REAL REAL GOOD...NORTH CAROLINA IF YOU WANT A CCW YOU MUST BE A CITIZEN OF THE UNITED STATES OKAY SQUIDLY...IS THIS BECOMING CLEAR SQUIDLY...CRYSTAL CLEAR SQUIDLY. A VIRGINIA PERMIT WILL NOT ALLOW HER TO CARRY CONCEALED IN NORTH CAROLINA SQUIDLY IF NORTH CAROLINA WOULD ALLOW HER TO CARRY CONCEALED WHY DON'T THEY JUST ISSUE HER A PERMIT FROM NORTH CAROLINA SQUIDLY...NOW GO WASH YOUR MOUTH OUT WITH THAT GOD DAMNED HOGWASH. NOW IF YOU WANT TO CAUSE NON US CITIZENS SOME SERIOUS TROUBLE TELL HER TO GET AN OUT OF STATE CARRY PERMIT AND JUST CARRY AWAY. NOW WITH RESPECT TO YOU AS YOU HAVE MADE IT ABUNDANTLY CLEAR THAT YOU ARE A RETIRED SQUIDLY...THAT WOULD NORMALLY IMPLY THAT YOU ARE A US CITIZEN...I ASK IS THAT HOGWASH...THEREFORE YOUR DUMBASS LITTLE WASHINGTON PERMIT WOULD BE RECOGNIZED AND YOU COULD CARRY IN NC. DOES THIS COMPORT WITH YOUR OWN VERSION OF HOGWASH.

Now then that I have gotten that off my chest I strongly recommend the OP contact a good lawyer before he listens to squidly. I have said this in other posts. A permit to carry a concealed weapon is just that. The operative word is "permit"...squidly that is a shortened version of the word "permission". Do you know what the word "permission" implies...right..that's right...it implies permission. The paper is what tells LEO that you have been given permission. Right squidly. Now then if the state does not give you that piece of paper because you are not a US citizen...okay one time squidly...what does that mean...come on..you can guess if you have too....hey that is right...that means they are not giving you permission to carry concealed because you are not a US Citizen. Okay squidly...now think back when you were just a tyke squidly...say 6 years old and you asked a parent if you could do something and they said no NO NO NO. So you went next door and asked Ms. Robinson if you could do it...and she says yes. So you go back home and do it because Ms. Robinson said you could. Is it crystal clear yet? One more test for you squidly...Virginia allows me if I want to carry as many AR's and AK's as I can carry all with loaded 30 round magazines and if I want to strap on leg holsters and belt holsters with all my glocks on board with 30 round magazines I have the right...not just the permission...but the absolute right to carry them anywhere in public (schools excepted) that I want to. That means any local government building and even into the state legislature building if I want. Certainly not into state courts, prisons, or jails...but just about everywhere else within the Commonwealth of Virginia. Now then...I am only going to ask this once...because Virginia gives me permission to do this can I take that permission across state lines into Maryland...you may google the code if you like. Can I carry them into New Jersey, Delaware, New York, Massachusetts, Rhode Island, Illinois, or California....I am sure you will let me know if I skipped a state. Now just answer the question. You may google, copy and paste, until the pigs fly. Don't forget to bold it either.

Typical reply from someone who can't support their theory with any factual resource. One sentence proves you wrong:

GS_14-415.24

§ 14-415.24. Reciprocity; out-of-state handgun permits.

(a) A valid concealed handgun permit or license issued by another state is valid in North Carolina.

Absolutely nothing in the statute about having to be a US Citizen or being able to qualify for the NC permit.

§ 14-415.11. Permit to carry concealed handgun; scope of permit.

(a) Any person who has a concealed handgun permit may carry a concealed handgun unless otherwise specifically prohibited by law. The person shall carry the permit together with valid identification whenever the person is carrying a concealed handgun, shall disclose to any law enforcement officer that the person holds a valid permit and is carrying a concealed handgun when approached or addressed by the officer, and shall display both the permit and the proper identification upon the request of a law enforcement officer.

There is absolutely nothing in NC law that prohibits a non-US citizen from carrying a concealed handgun. And this law is simple and easy to understand as well. "Any person who has a concealed handgun permit may carry a concealed handgun" + "a valid concealed handgun permit or license issued by another state is valid in North Carolina." So, Mr. JimTh, show us the NC statute that specifically prohibits a non-US citizen from carrying a concealed handgun. We'll wait...while the crickets chirp in the background. Or are you just going to continue to post childish name calling because the factual resources disprove your erroneous theory?

 

[VA Pete]

Talk about pure hogwash...LISTEN TO THIS SQUIDDLY...LISTEN...LISTEN..LISTEN...THIS IS YOUR CAPTAIN SPEAKING...PULL THE SWAB OUT OF YOUR AS S AND LISTEN HERE REAL REAL GOOD...NORTH CAROLINA IF YOU WANT A CCW YOU MUST BE A CITIZEN OF THE UNITED STATES OKAY SQUIDLY...IS THIS BECOMING CLEAR SQUIDLY...CRYSTAL CLEAR SQUIDLY. A VIRGINIA PERMIT WILL NOT ALLOW HER TO CARRY CONCEALED IN NORTH CAROLINA SQUIDLY IF NORTH CAROLINA WOULD ALLOW HER TO CARRY CONCEALED WHY DON'T THEY JUST ISSUE HER A PERMIT FROM NORTH CAROLINA SQUIDLY...NOW GO WASH YOUR MOUTH OUT WITH THAT GOD DAMNED HOGWASH. NOW IF YOU WANT TO CAUSE NON US CITIZENS SOME SERIOUS TROUBLE TELL HER TO GET AN OUT OF STATE CARRY PERMIT AND JUST CARRY AWAY. NOW WITH RESPECT TO YOU AS YOU HAVE MADE IT ABUNDANTLY CLEAR THAT YOU ARE A RETIRED SQUIDLY...THAT WOULD NORMALLY IMPLY THAT YOU ARE A US CITIZEN...I ASK IS THAT HOGWASH...THEREFORE YOUR DUMBASS LITTLE WASHINGTON PERMIT WOULD BE RECOGNIZED AND YOU COULD CARRY IN NC. DOES THIS COMPORT WITH YOUR OWN VERSION OF HOGWASH.

Now then that I have gotten that off my chest I strongly recommend the OP contact a good lawyer before he listens to squidly. I have said this in other posts. A permit to carry a concealed weapon is just that. The operative word is "permit"...squidly that is a shortened version of the word "permission". Do you know what the word "permission" implies...right..that's right...it implies permission. The paper is what tells LEO that you have been given permission. Right squidly. Now then if the state does not give you that piece of paper because you are not a US citizen...okay one time squidly...what does that mean...come on..you can guess if you have too....hey that is right...that means they are not giving you permission to carry concealed because you are not a US Citizen. Okay squidly...now think back when you were just a tyke squidly...say 6 years old and you asked a parent if you could do something and they said no NO NO NO. So you went next door and asked Ms. Robinson if you could do it...and she says yes. So you go back home and do it because Ms. Robinson said you could. Is it crystal clear yet? One more test for you squidly...Virginia allows me if I want to carry as many AR's and AK's as I can carry all with loaded 30 round magazines and if I want to strap on leg holsters and belt holsters with all my glocks on board with 30 round magazines I have the right...not just the permission...but the absolute right to carry them anywhere in public (schools excepted) that I want to. That means any local government building and even into the state legislature building if I want. Certainly not into state courts, prisons, or jails...but just about everywhere else within the Commonwealth of Virginia. Now then...I am only going to ask this once...because Virginia gives me permission to do this can I take that permission across state lines into Maryland...you may google the code if you like. Can I carry them into New Jersey, Delaware, New York, Massachusetts, Rhode Island, Illinois, or California....I am sure you will let me know if I skipped a state. Now just answer the question. You may google, copy and paste, until the pigs fly. Don't forget to bold it either.

Geez, what a freaking douche-bag.

 

[TrapperBob]

The problem I see with such proposal is that althought an out of state permit maybe valid in NC, and since she'll be living as resident in NC, the out of state permit may be voided due to her NC residence status. This by no means is a fact, just my thought.

No, this issue has come up in the legislature and got no traction a few years ago. A NC resident with a VA non-resident permit but not a NC permit CAN carry in NC on the basis of the VA permit. It is very simple, NC recognizes all permits issued by any other state. No exceptions or conditions. The only issue is that the law actually says "state" issued, so a strict interpretation would mean that a permit from the District of Columbia (assuming they ever issue any) would not be valid, nor would a permit from NY City be valid in NC, unless the person also has a NY state permit. Whether or not the police would actually be that picky on the wording, I have no idea.

 

[jg1967]

I am a non resident alien living in NC myself. Right now she can get one of the various non resident permits like the one from Florida and she would be legal to carry in NC. Somebody is currently suing NC to have the citizenship requirement removed from the CCW permit process but that will take some more time.

 

[jg1967]

Talk about pure hogwash...LISTEN TO THIS SQUIDDLY...LISTEN...LISTEN..LISTEN...THIS IS YOUR CAPTAIN SPEAKING...PULL THE SWAB OUT OF YOUR AS S AND LISTEN HERE REAL REAL GOOD...NORTH CAROLINA IF YOU WANT A CCW YOU MUST BE A CITIZEN OF THE UNITED STATES OKAY SQUIDLY...IS THIS BECOMING CLEAR SQUIDLY...CRYSTAL CLEAR SQUIDLY. A VIRGINIA PERMIT WILL NOT ALLOW HER TO CARRY CONCEALED IN NORTH CAROLINA SQUIDLY IF NORTH CAROLINA WOULD ALLOW HER TO CARRY CONCEALED WHY DON'T THEY JUST ISSUE HER A PERMIT FROM NORTH CAROLINA SQUIDLY...NOW GO WASH YOUR MOUTH OUT WITH THAT GOD DAMNED HOGWASH. NOW IF YOU WANT TO CAUSE NON US CITIZENS SOME SERIOUS TROUBLE TELL HER TO GET AN OUT OF STATE CARRY PERMIT AND JUST CARRY AWAY. NOW WITH RESPECT TO YOU AS YOU HAVE MADE IT ABUNDANTLY CLEAR THAT YOU ARE A RETIRED SQUIDLY...THAT WOULD NORMALLY IMPLY THAT YOU ARE A US CITIZEN...I ASK IS THAT HOGWASH...THEREFORE YOUR DUMBASS LITTLE WASHINGTON PERMIT WOULD BE RECOGNIZED AND YOU COULD CARRY IN NC. DOES THIS COMPORT WITH YOUR OWN VERSION OF HOGWASH.

Now then that I have gotten that off my chest I strongly recommend the OP contact a good lawyer before he listens to squidly. I have said this in other posts. A permit to carry a concealed weapon is just that. The operative word is "permit"...squidly that is a shortened version of the word "permission". Do you know what the word "permission" implies...right..that's right...it implies permission. The paper is what tells LEO that you have been given permission. Right squidly. Now then if the state does not give you that piece of paper because you are not a US citizen...okay one time squidly...what does that mean...come on..you can guess if you have too....hey that is right...that means they are not giving you permission to carry concealed because you are not a US Citizen. Okay squidly...now think back when you were just a tyke squidly...say 6 years old and you asked a parent if you could do something and they said no NO NO NO. So you went next door and asked Ms. Robinson if you could do it...and she says yes. So you go back home and do it because Ms. Robinson said you could. Is it crystal clear yet? One more test for you squidly...Virginia allows me if I want to carry as many AR's and AK's as I can carry all with loaded 30 round magazines and if I want to strap on leg holsters and belt holsters with all my glocks on board with 30 round magazines I have the right...not just the permission...but the absolute right to carry them anywhere in public (schools excepted) that I want to. That means any local government building and even into the state legislature building if I want. Certainly not into state courts, prisons, or jails...but just about everywhere else within the Commonwealth of Virginia. Now then...I am only going to ask this once...because Virginia gives me permission to do this can I take that permission across state lines into Maryland...you may google the code if you like. Can I carry them into New Jersey, Delaware, New York, Massachusetts, Rhode Island, Illinois, or California....I am sure you will let me know if I skipped a state. Now just answer the question. You may google, copy and paste, until the pigs fly. Don't forget to bold it either.

I really tried reading this but since it's just a big blob of text my eyes would loose focus...

 

[FlaPara]

Thank you all for the insight! Probably wont be going much into gettin her to carry, but def into classes. Much appreciated.

 

[NavyLCDR]

If JimTH is through with his hissy fit, hopefully he learned something.

I would check into women's firearms safety and basic firearms classes for her, especially one that includes range time; she might discover how fun it is to shoot.