tattedupboy
Thank God I'm alive!
Let me start off by saying that the purpose of this thread is to point out flaws in the arguments of both antis and gun rights advocates.
I would like to start by saying that it has been my observation that crime statistics in urban areas are often used to justify either tightening or loosening restrictions on gun ownership and concealed carry. What these statistics often ignore are what goes on in rural areas, where crime rates are far lower. Nevertheless, the purpose of this thread is to discuss the effect that CCW laws have on crime rates in urban areas.
It is a well known fact that the CCW movement has gained momentum in the past decade, with Kansas and Nebraska being the most recent states to allow CCW by law abiding citizens. It is also well known that gun rights advocates often cite decreases in crime rates in other shall issue states as one of their primary arguments in favor of lawful CCW. Gun control activists often use emotion-laden doomsday tactics to discourage the adoption of CCW laws. Both sides have some successess and failures to their credit. Here are some examples.
Two cities with heavy gun control
New York City: 2007 marked the first time in decades that NYC had fewer than 500 homicides in a year. With over 8 million residents and 494 homicides, this works out to approximately 6 homicides per 100,000 residents, easily among the lowest in the nation in cities of 500,000 or more residents. Crime rates in NYC have been falling since the 1990s despite the difficulty most people have in obtaining concealed carry permits. Approximately 16,000 New Yorkers have them, and virtually all of them are people who are either wealthy or politically connected (ie., Senator Charles Schumer, Howard Stern, and Donald Trump just to name a few). Anti 2A activists often use NYC as an example of why they believe more gun control leads to less crime. Calls by gun rights organizations to loosen restrictions on the issuance of concealed carry permits in NYC typically fall on deaf ears, and as long as crime rates continue to fall, things are likely to continue to remain the way it is today.
Washington, D.C.: In 1976, gun control activists lauded the city for the newly passed law that barred all new handgun registrations in the District. The intent of the law was for the number of handguns, through the attrition of registered handgun owners, to eventually decrease to zero. Obviously, that has been the case, but as the number of lawful handgun owners continues to decrease via attrition, the number of handgun owners who are gangbangers and criminals continues to increase and as a result, so has the crime rate. It has gotten so bad that the city and police have declared numerous "crime emergencies," but to no avail. Washington, D.C. continues to be on the list of the nation's most dangerous cities as well as on the list of cities with the highest per capita murder rates. Outlawing the mere ownership of handguns has made concealed carry a moot point, but clearly the promises of less crime and murder that were promised by the handgun ban have made gun control activists eat their words. Gun rights activists routinely use the District as an example of how restictions on gun ownership actualy increase crime rates.
Two cities with very little gun control
Gary, Indiana: Indiana was among the first shall issue CCW states, enacting its law even before Florida. Gary, located in the Northwestern part of the state, has led the nation in homicides per 100,000 residents for most of the past 15 years, including 71 in 2007 for a murder rate of approximately 75 per 100,000 residents; for those of you who are wondering, that's 11 times higher than NYC's murder rate, meaning if Gary were the same size as NYC with this same exact murder rate, it would have had a mind-boggling 5,300 murders. Clearly, CCW by law abiding citizens has not made Gary any less dangerous. In this case, being armed has not made law abiding citizens any safer from the thugs and gangbangers who roam the city at will, obviously undeterred by a CCW law that has been on the books for more than two decades. Gun control advocates who argue that CCW laws cause more crime love to show Gary and Detroit as examples of CCW laws having little, if any effect on crime rates.
Louisville, Kentucky: Kentucky is a shall issue state that honors licenses from every state and allows unlicensed open carry by residents and nonresidents both on foot and in vehicles. Guns are very much a part of Kentucky culture, yet, contrary to gun control advocates' claim that higher rates of gun ownership lead to more crime, Louisville is consistently ranked by the Morgan Quitno press as one of the safest cities in America. Even though Kentucky did not allow concealed carry until 1996, unlicensed open carry has been widespread since long before then, and its murder rates have continued to be close to or below the national average, something that has not changed since the advent of concealed carry. Gun rights advocates like to point to Louisville as an example of concealed carry making cities safer than those without CCW.
My reason for this thread was to show that contrary to what people on both sides of the CCW like to claim, CCW, or the lack thereof, by itself, does not increase or decrease crime rates. Clearly, cities such as Gary and Detroit, which are largely minority and largely poor, will continue to remain crime ridden regardless of whether CCW is allowed. Other cities such as Louisville, which always has been mostly safe, will continue to be due to the importance of guns in Kentucky's culture. Finally, New York City, which has always been averse to guns, has been one of the safest big cities in America, and seems to have to belief that they should not change the gun laws if they work in keeping the crime rate down.
I would like to start by saying that it has been my observation that crime statistics in urban areas are often used to justify either tightening or loosening restrictions on gun ownership and concealed carry. What these statistics often ignore are what goes on in rural areas, where crime rates are far lower. Nevertheless, the purpose of this thread is to discuss the effect that CCW laws have on crime rates in urban areas.
It is a well known fact that the CCW movement has gained momentum in the past decade, with Kansas and Nebraska being the most recent states to allow CCW by law abiding citizens. It is also well known that gun rights advocates often cite decreases in crime rates in other shall issue states as one of their primary arguments in favor of lawful CCW. Gun control activists often use emotion-laden doomsday tactics to discourage the adoption of CCW laws. Both sides have some successess and failures to their credit. Here are some examples.
Two cities with heavy gun control
New York City: 2007 marked the first time in decades that NYC had fewer than 500 homicides in a year. With over 8 million residents and 494 homicides, this works out to approximately 6 homicides per 100,000 residents, easily among the lowest in the nation in cities of 500,000 or more residents. Crime rates in NYC have been falling since the 1990s despite the difficulty most people have in obtaining concealed carry permits. Approximately 16,000 New Yorkers have them, and virtually all of them are people who are either wealthy or politically connected (ie., Senator Charles Schumer, Howard Stern, and Donald Trump just to name a few). Anti 2A activists often use NYC as an example of why they believe more gun control leads to less crime. Calls by gun rights organizations to loosen restrictions on the issuance of concealed carry permits in NYC typically fall on deaf ears, and as long as crime rates continue to fall, things are likely to continue to remain the way it is today.
Washington, D.C.: In 1976, gun control activists lauded the city for the newly passed law that barred all new handgun registrations in the District. The intent of the law was for the number of handguns, through the attrition of registered handgun owners, to eventually decrease to zero. Obviously, that has been the case, but as the number of lawful handgun owners continues to decrease via attrition, the number of handgun owners who are gangbangers and criminals continues to increase and as a result, so has the crime rate. It has gotten so bad that the city and police have declared numerous "crime emergencies," but to no avail. Washington, D.C. continues to be on the list of the nation's most dangerous cities as well as on the list of cities with the highest per capita murder rates. Outlawing the mere ownership of handguns has made concealed carry a moot point, but clearly the promises of less crime and murder that were promised by the handgun ban have made gun control activists eat their words. Gun rights activists routinely use the District as an example of how restictions on gun ownership actualy increase crime rates.
Two cities with very little gun control
Gary, Indiana: Indiana was among the first shall issue CCW states, enacting its law even before Florida. Gary, located in the Northwestern part of the state, has led the nation in homicides per 100,000 residents for most of the past 15 years, including 71 in 2007 for a murder rate of approximately 75 per 100,000 residents; for those of you who are wondering, that's 11 times higher than NYC's murder rate, meaning if Gary were the same size as NYC with this same exact murder rate, it would have had a mind-boggling 5,300 murders. Clearly, CCW by law abiding citizens has not made Gary any less dangerous. In this case, being armed has not made law abiding citizens any safer from the thugs and gangbangers who roam the city at will, obviously undeterred by a CCW law that has been on the books for more than two decades. Gun control advocates who argue that CCW laws cause more crime love to show Gary and Detroit as examples of CCW laws having little, if any effect on crime rates.
Louisville, Kentucky: Kentucky is a shall issue state that honors licenses from every state and allows unlicensed open carry by residents and nonresidents both on foot and in vehicles. Guns are very much a part of Kentucky culture, yet, contrary to gun control advocates' claim that higher rates of gun ownership lead to more crime, Louisville is consistently ranked by the Morgan Quitno press as one of the safest cities in America. Even though Kentucky did not allow concealed carry until 1996, unlicensed open carry has been widespread since long before then, and its murder rates have continued to be close to or below the national average, something that has not changed since the advent of concealed carry. Gun rights advocates like to point to Louisville as an example of concealed carry making cities safer than those without CCW.
My reason for this thread was to show that contrary to what people on both sides of the CCW like to claim, CCW, or the lack thereof, by itself, does not increase or decrease crime rates. Clearly, cities such as Gary and Detroit, which are largely minority and largely poor, will continue to remain crime ridden regardless of whether CCW is allowed. Other cities such as Louisville, which always has been mostly safe, will continue to be due to the importance of guns in Kentucky's culture. Finally, New York City, which has always been averse to guns, has been one of the safest big cities in America, and seems to have to belief that they should not change the gun laws if they work in keeping the crime rate down.